“The show must go on” reaks of white supremacy. Thoughts by Robin De Jesus- Page 2

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 6:11pm

[Dolly80]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 6:14pm

The Weisslers have treated white people badly too... just saying. 
 

Updated On: 4/18/21 at 06:14 PM

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 6:31pm

In order for BIPOC theatre artists to be successful, there’s always been an good amount of playing nice, kissing butt, being submissive, not causing a stir, staying quiet, keeping their head down, performing perfectly, etc. because they “should be lucky” to even have the job. If they step out of line, they are expendable because there is a long line of other BIPOC artists waiting to be hired. And that’s why “the show must go on” has a dash of white supremacy mixed in.

I do encourage white people to see things from a nonwhite perspective. It is hard to imagine how the other half lives, and it’s even harder to break out of the cycle of something systemic. Just because someone treats white employees terribly doesn’t mean they don’t also treat BIPOC employees even more terribly.

[Dolly80]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 6:38pm

How has The Show must go on.. a phrase used for DECADES suddenly been turned into something racist?

Genuinely- please someone explain..!

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 6:44pm

I think you’re seeing it a little too narrow. We’re not talking about “the show must go on, so let’s put on the show in a barn in Vermont;” this is more of a “the show is going to open with or without you, we’ll hire the next flamboyant Latino who is cheaper because he doesn’t have a Tony nomination, so don’t step out of line.”

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 7:59pm

Dolly80 said: "The Weisslers have treated white people badly too... just saying.
"

^^^ This right here reeks of "ALL LIVES MATTER" the go-to racist white person's response when they hear "BLACK LIVES MATTER"

Your white privilege is showing...BIG TIME

Updated On: 4/18/21 at 07:59 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 8:02pm

Dolly80 said: "How has The Show must go on.. a phrase used for DECADES suddenly been turned into something racist?

Genuinely- please someone explain..!"

There are lots of phrases, much worse than this one that have been used for decades and even centuries that are manifestly racist so the time-worn argument really collapses of its own weight. I provided an explanation to you at 4/18/21 at 05:51pm. Genuinely. What more do you need to know? And as HeyMrMusic tries to explain to you, context is your friend.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 10:09pm

Did anyone actually watch Robin de Jesus's video? Because he's not accusing the Weisslers of overt racism at all. He's saying they engage in ****ty, miserly practices that probably affect performers of color more because POC are more vulnerable to their particular form of bull****tery. 

He's also making it clear that his story isn't anywhere near the worst one, but he's not at liberty to divulge stories from people who don't want their names out there.

I mean it's probably a level of nuance that's too much for people ...

[joevitus]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 10:16pm

Watched about half and couldn't get any further. But he's the one who titled his video, so if he conveyed the wrong message, that's on him. A thing "that probably affects performers of color more" but isn't guided by a racist mentality is not racism, therefore "the show must go on" can't "reak" (sp) of racism. Poor logic. And spelling. 

[ViniFromBrazil]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 10:35pm

poisonivy2 said: "Did anyone actually watch Robin de Jesus's video? Because he's not accusing the Weisslers of overt racism at all. He's saying they engage in ****ty, miserly practices that probably affect performers of color more because POC are more vulnerable to their particular form of bull****tery.

He's also making it clear that his story isn't anywhere near the worst one, but he's not at liberty to divulge stories from people who don't want their names out there.

I mean it's probably a level of nuance that's too much for people ..."

 

I agree. The terms "racism" and "white supremacy" are very triggering to people as though they were being called criminals, when in fact every (or mostly) black person understands that white supremacy in this context means having two white producers treating people miserably never being held accountable for anything and not having support by powerful black people in the industry to rely on, denounce or at least talk about it because anything you say is (and used to be) converted into victimhood.

That being said, the account seemed to me very customary and not very powerful. I think it's impolite to go on telling people that what hurt them is irrelevant or "normal", but I hope this post is a starting point to more stories detailing the work environment made toxic by the producers otherwise this is going to fade away quickly.

Updated On: 4/18/21 at 10:35 PM

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 11:14pm

joevitus said: "Watched about half and couldn't get any further. But he's the one who titled his video, so if he conveyed the wrong message, that's on him. Athing "that probably affects performers of color more" but isn't guided by a racist mentalityis not racism, therefore "the show must go on" can't "reak" (sp)of racism. Poor logic. And spelling."

Robin’s video is actually titled “PA FUERA!!!”

If it’s something that affects performers of color more and there isn’t some kind of racism (blatant or systemic), what’s the cause for the occurrence? Coincidence? Because wow, so many awful things just happen to POCs coincidentally.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 1:24am

Robin, Robin, Robin.  I...don't know what to say about your video...   maybe broadway shouldn't come back until everyone is held accountable for every... thing... 

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 2:10am

I knew there were some idiots on this board, but threads like this really allow people to reveal themselves. Yikes.

[joevitus]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 11:14am

HeyMrMusic said: "joevitus said: "Watched about half and couldn't get any further. But he's the one who titled his video, so if he conveyed the wrong message, that's on him. Athing "that probably affects performers of color more" but isn't guided by a racist mentalityis not racism, therefore "the show must go on" can't "reak" (sp)of racism. Poor logic. And spelling."

Robin’s video is actually titled “PA FUERA!!!”

If it’s something that affects performers of color more and there isn’t some kind of racism (blatant or systemic), what’s the cause for the occurrence? Coincidence? Because wow, so many awful things just happen to POCscoincidentally."

The concept "the show must go on" isn't racist, and it isn't applied more to persons of color than anyone else. If you want to talk about the US being a nation that suffers from systematic racism, and you want to make the argument that  "the show must go on" feels more egregious because of all the other things which are racist that people of color have to endure, that's one thing. But that isn't the same as saying "the show must go on" is itself a racist ideology or a tactic of white supremacy. 

[Dolly80]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 11:48am

CarlosAlberto said: "Dolly80 said: "The Weisslers have treated white people badly too... just saying.
"

^^^ This right here reeks of "ALL LIVES MATTER" the go-toracistwhite person's response when they hear"BLACK LIVES MATTER"

Your white privilege is showing...BIG TIME

 

 Nothing to do with White privilege. Making EVERYTHING racist is just stupid.

The show must go on, I’d say, means that everyone is replaceable. Black, white, Hispanic, everyone. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 11:50am

joevitus said: "The concept "the show must go on" isn't racist, and it isn't applied more to persons of color than anyone else. If you want to talk about the US being a nation that suffers fromsystematic racism, and you want to make the argument that"the show must go on" feels more egregious because of all theother things which are racist that peopleof color have to endure, that's one thing. But that isn't the same as saying "the show must go on" is itselfa racist ideology or a tactic of white supremacy."

"The show must go on" is an element of systemic racism. As such, it is a "tactic of white supremacy." There is no need to play chicken or egg. Are you just making a semantic argument? I can't quite tell. As has been rehearsed, the fact that whites are also harmed by the notions embodied in that expression is itself a racist meme (a la "all lives matter" etc).

[Dolly80]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 11:53am

I cannot bear that people even say All Lives Matter, to try and marginalise BLM. Abhorrent.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 11:57am

Again, people are missing the nuance of what he was saying. He was saying that the Weisslers have a habit of lowballing people on contracts, denying very basic requests to occasionally have a personal day off, and badmouthing performers unfairly. He's saying that for POC within the community, they are more affected by this sort of chicanery because there's less roles for them, less opportunities, and not everyone can be like Robin de Jesus who CAN walk away because he has a few irons in the fire. 

He is also saying that not every crappy personality in the business smashes a laptop screen into an assistant's hand. That the Weissler's cheap, miserly ways can be just as damaging.

[Playbill_Trash]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 1:56pm

Woke culture, and anyone who chooses to throw the term "white supremacy" around without thinking first, needs to understand how ignorant, offensive, stupid, and fundamentally wrong they are when applying that term to a Jewish person. White supremacy is a real threat, and is a current threat to Judaism as much as any other minority. Calling a Jewish person a white supremacist shows how ignorant you are and how you do not understand history or actual sources of discrimination. If you are going to be so tone deaf and throw this term around without understanding what it means, then you cannot be taken seriously in an intelligent conversation about discrimination.

 

If you have a bad experience with Fran or Barry Weissler based on an alleged harsh or toxic work environment, that is a separate issue and that type of behavior should be taken seriously in a separate conversation. But to link it to white supremacy is just plain stupid. It is incoherent arguments like these that cause white supremacy to be ignored and excused because it cannot be rooted out when it is not properly identified to begin with. Meanwhile in the background, white supremacists are actually out there acting on their hate and not getting caught because people are looking at the wrong people in the wrong places. Incorrectly identifying white supremacy is part of what is excusing and allowing anti-semitism in this country. In no way are the Weisslers "white supremacists".

[JSquared2]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 2:02pm

It would be lovely if the Weisslers were to sue Robin De Jusus for slander.  Just sayin'...

Posted: 4/19/21 at 2:08pm

Playbill_Trash said: "Woke culture, and anyone who chooses to throw the term "white supremacy" around without thinking first, needs to understand how ignorant, offensive, stupid, and fundamentally wrong they are when applying that term to a Jewish person."

I think the woke folks are pretty young and don't know all that much about history.

[Playbill_Trash]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 2:10pm

JSquared2 said: "It would be lovely if the Weisslers were to sue Robin De Jusus for slander. Just sayin'..."

Amen. That's one way to teach people to think before they speak and that words matter.

[joevitus]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 2:16pm

poisonivy2 said: "Again, people are missing the nuance of what he was saying. He was saying that the Weisslers have a habit of lowballing people on contracts, denying very basic requests to occasionally have a personal day off, and badmouthing performers unfairly. He's saying that for POC within the community, they are more affected by this sort of chicanery because there's less roles for them, less opportunities, and not everyone can be like Robin de Jesus who CAN walk away because he has a few irons in the fire.

He is also saying that not every crappy personality in the business smashes a laptop screen into an assistant's hand. That the Weissler's cheap, miserly ways can be just as damaging."

 

That they are more affected because of other practices that are racist still doesn't make "the show must go on" racist. It just doesn't. Yet that's what he claims in his title. That's on him. 

Updated On: 4/19/21 at 02:16 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 2:41pm

@Playbill_Trash "Woke culture" means a culture that is sensitive to social injustice. If you are against social injustice, you've found a great way of letting everyone know so they can avoid you. 

Being Jewish does not mean you cannot be a white supremacist or racist etc. There were lots of racist, white supremacist Jews in the Trump White House. It's shameful but it is true. Scott Rudin was exposed for racist emails. Although most Jewish people I know wish he was not, he is Jewish. I can go on but please do not call someone ignorant for this reason; it does not reflect well on you. PS: what you are trying to do here is called deflection. Look it up.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 4/19/21 at 2:45pm

This thread has predictably become dumpster fire.

Look: it sounds like the Weisslers are - as are many theatrical producers - in this business for themselves and don't really care that much about their actors. That is literally the reason why we have Actors' Equity: because of producers that try to take advantage of actors. It happens all the time.

Although I guess I'm a bad liberal for saying this, my reaction to the video was, "Dude, you CHOSE to rehearse without a contract because you REFUSED to sign the one they gave you because you personally felt they lowballed you." I'm really interested in what his definition of a "lowball" or "insulting" offer is BTW. I have a feeling it was still far beyond union scale, but who knows.

Oh, and technically, according to AEA, he should not have been rehearsing without a signed contract and actually broke AEA rules by doing so. If he really was concerned about having to drop out of the show and how that might have affected the rest of the company, that's on him.

And don't get me wrong: America, and mostly certainly the American theatre, is built on racism. But was the Weisslers' behavior towards Robin DeJesus racist? He doesn't give any evidence that that it was. From the other posts on here, they are evidently legendary for being sh*tty to ALL actors. Is the argument here that when someone is an a**hole to everyone - when they are the Mel Brooks of producer dougebaggery in that they are an equal opportunity offender - when they do the same thing to BIPOC people that they do to white people, it suddenly becomes racist? Is that really the argument?

Also, no, the whole "the show must go on" thing is not racist, it's just cheap -- as in understudies are expensive and a pain in the butt to get ready when the rehearsal period is short enough as it is. I suppose it is an abusive mentality, but racist? No. Give me a break.

Folks, I want to decolonize the theatre industry too. But this is not the way.

A fuera this nonsense. Can we focus on the REAL issues please?