The Gilded Age on HBO - News & Discussion Thread

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 1/20/22 at 8:46pm

Julian Fellowes’ Downton Abbey follow-up, featuring a slew of talent from Broadway, TV, and film, premieres on HBO from January 24. 

The American Gilded Age was a period of immense economic change, great conflict between the old ways and brand new systems, and huge fortunes were made and lost. In 1882, young Marian Brook moves from rural Pennsylvania to New York City after the death of her father to live with her aunts Agnes van Rhijn and Ada Brook. Accompanied by Peggy Scott, an aspiring writer seeking a fresh start, Marian inadvertently becomes enmeshed in a social war between one of her aunts, a scion of the old money set, and her stupendously rich neighbors, a ruthless railroad tycoon and his ambitious wife, George and Bertha Russell. Exposed to a world on the brink of the modern age, Marian must choose if she will follow the established rules of society or forge her own path.

The series currently sits at 91% on Rotten Tomatoes

 https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_gilded_age

 

[Wick3]

Posted: 1/24/22 at 11:41pm

Wow I didn't realize how many Broadway folks were cast in this!

Christine Baranski (Boeing Boeing), Denee Benton (Great Comet), Cynthia Nixon (Little Foxes), Jeanne Tripplehorn (The Three Sisters), Donna Murphy (Hello Dolly), Audra McDonald (Frankie and Johnny in the Clair de Lune), Michael Cerveris (Fun Home), Celia Keenan-Bolger (To Kill a Mockingbird), Debra Monk (Cat on a Hot Tin Roof), Morgan Spector (Machinal), Claybourne Elder (Company)

and am sure there are more! 

I was talking about this with my friend who I watched this with this evening and perhaps the high number of Bway folks is due to how filming was done during the shutdown? 

[Phillytheatreguy10]

Posted: 1/24/22 at 11:46pm

Kelly O’Hara, Katie Finneran 

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 12:04am

Linda Edmond, Patrick Page, Douglas Sills, Erin Wilhelmi, Kristine Nielsen. 

 

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 12:11am

Every NY based actor is in this.  Every single actor friend I know (even non-professional) will appear in one or more episodes.  I think everyone in NY was offered a role.  Insane. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 12:21am

Ron Raines will win Best Supporting Mutton Chops at next year's Emmys.

I had a nice time watching, but it's a fairly stuffy first episode. Hoping it will liven up a bit, but not holding my breath considering the showrunner. The ultra-digital look combined with some dodgy CGI to enhance exteriors makes for a strange contrast.

Carrie Coon was the MVP for me.

Updated On: 1/25/22 at 12:21 AM

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 12:25am

For those who couldn't tell from the bone structure: Louisa Jacobson (Marian) is the daughter of Meryl Streep.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 4:56am

The diversity requirements that need to be adhered to- render some of the storylines artificial. 

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 5:55am

The CGI-created NYC may be necessary, but it doesn't help establish the verisimilitude, and it adds to an overall artificiality. Rather than feel transported, we sense the effort to transport us, and the settings often feel like settings, exteriors drawing attention like old school Hollywood matte work (tops of buildings, skyline, and especially the seaport sequence). It wouldn't matter if the show were more consistently compelling. Most noticeable: the 80 minute pilot didn't have 80 minutes of story.  We live in an era of well-crafted hour episodic drama, many of the industry's best showrunners expertly shaping 50-60 minute segments.  This attenuated introduction felt bloated, trying hard to hit the Downton notes, especially with the downstairs segments, well acted as they are. (Sidebar, as the Chicago Tribune noted: racism seems relegated to these denizens of service. The upper crust is spared such indictment. If designed to help us warm to their otherwise chilly snobbishness, it feels contrived.). 

But though it may change, the biggest issue so far, as Slate and at least four other mainstream reviews complained (NY Times, Vulture, WSJ, Wapo, all of which were fairly brutal), the stakes -- if historically accurate -- aren't yet fully engaging. Old money resisting new money's aggressive rise is a cornerstone of our history -- and the West's -- yet this show presumes our investment in new money's trauma from (predictable) rejection. The uneaten banquet that sits forlornly isn't a new crisis (see Unsinkable Molly Brown), and needs to tug our hearts (again, Molly Brown). Do they here? I love these actors, Carrie Coon a personal favorite, yet so far we're intellectually compelled without feeling much.  And I wish the male characters' scenes felt worth the screen time.  The show is a bit bloodless, eroticism not in this auteur's tool box (though we do get one whiff, and, ahem, not among the characters we expect).  I'll keep watching. I wish I felt as drawn to the storytelling as I am this stellar company of Broadway's finest. But I'm not the only person to have this response.    

Updated On: 1/25/22 at 05:55 AM

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 9:40am

very perceptive, auggie.

I think at least 50% of the problems would be solved with a livelier, more brisk tone in the direction. That doesn't solve the issues of a predictable story and a well that Fellowes has gone to before, but it would help. It needs a little bit of camp. All these actors can go "big"...let them do it!

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 9:43am

BWAY Baby2 said: "The diversity requirements that need to be adhered to- render some of the storylines artificial."

That certainly isn't something mandated by the network (see: Succession, which is almost entirely white). No doubt it was Fellowes trying to adapt to a changing world and adding something to this that wasn't there in DOWNTON or GOSFORD. But there are some people who just aren't equipped to write about race, and he may be one of them... it's dangerously close to White Savior territory based on the pilot, and as someone else said, it's odd that only the servants exhibit racism towards Denee Benton. (You think Baranski is about to and then she warms up)

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 10:00am

jacobsnchz14 said: "The series currently sits at 91% on Rotten Tomatoes

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_gilded_age

"

Tomameter is way down from 91%. As pretty as it looks and as well-cast as it is, the critical and audience reviews just don't feel like there's enough for me to tune in when there's so many other things to watch. 

[FANtomFollies]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 10:02am

I totally get the criticisms but I found it to be very entertaining and thought it accomplished what it needed to by introducing many interesting characters and their goals/motivations. Also I found the sets and costumes to be stunning. I'm excited to see where the season goes. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 10:42am

I thought it was boring and slow, and the CGI very distracting. Cast is great but they can't even save this snooze. 

Updated On: 1/25/22 at 10:42 AM

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 12:19pm

I rejoined HBO Max for this.  I'll definitely tune in, but the first thing I noticed was how fake the exterior settings looked.

[The Other One]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 1:09pm

I can't be the only person who never, ever needs to see another variation on the Upstairs/Downstairs theme (which, to be fair, goes back a lot further than that).  Add to that the fact that most of the people in this cast, good as they are, are overexposed on television these days as it is.  

No thank you.

Updated On: 1/25/22 at 01:09 PM

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 1:17pm

I don't know I feel like we can't critique tv shows the same as movies and shows cause there is room for growth always.

If this episode didn't grab you, there's potential it has to find its footing and does through the first season.

Pilots are SO hard to get right. I can count on my hand how many brilliant pilots there are.

The only way a pilot will stop me fully from not going back to show is if it's clear the writing is bad. 

A boring but well written pilot often means it's a burn that could get me to come back to see what potential is there. 

Updated On: 1/25/22 at 01:17 PM

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 1:17pm

Loving every single thing about it.      

[carnzee]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 1:50pm

Auggie27 said: "The CGI-created NYC may be necessary, but it doesn't help establish the verisimilitude, and it adds to an overall artificiality. Rather than feel transported, we sense the effort to transport us, and the settings often feel like settings, exteriors drawing attention like old school Hollywood matte work (tops of buildings, skyline, and especially the seaport sequence). It wouldn't matter if the show were more consistently compelling. Most noticeable: the 80 minute pilot didn't have 80 minutes of story. We live in an era of well-crafted hour episodic drama, many of the industry's best showrunners expertly shaping 50-60 minute segments. This attenuated introduction felt bloated, trying hard to hit the Downton notes, especially with the downstairs segments, well acted as they are. (Sidebar, as the Chicago Tribune noted: racism seems relegated to these denizens of service. The upper crust is spared such indictment. If designed to help us warm to their otherwise chilly snobbishness, it feels contrived.).

But though it may change, the biggest issue so far, as Slate and at least four other mainstream reviews complained (NY Times, Vulture, WSJ, Wapo, all of which were fairly brutal), the stakes -- if historically accurate -- aren't yet fully engaging. Old money resisting new money's aggressive rise is a cornerstone of our history -- and the West's -- yet this show presumes our investment in new money's trauma from (predictable) rejection. The uneaten banquet that sits forlornly isn't a new crisis (see Unsinkable Molly Brown), and needs to tug our hearts (again, Molly Brown). Do they here? I love these actors, Carrie Coon a personal favorite, yet so far we're intellectually compelled without feeling much. And I wish the male characters' scenes felt worth the screen time. The show is a bit bloodless, eroticism not in this auteur's tool box (though we do get one whiff, and, ahem, not among the characters we expect). I'll keep watching. I wish I felt as drawn to the storytelling as I am this stellar company of Broadway's finest. But I'm not the only person to have this response. "

Excellent analysis. I agree with all of it, but I'm still excited about continuing the series. Pilots are often the weakest episodes of series. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 1:54pm

yes add me to the list of people who will continue watching throughout the season despite not loving the pilot. Great shows like Succession and Breaking Bad and The Office took a season to find their footing. There's a lot of "shoe leather" to get through in a pilot.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 2:24pm

I loved everything about this aside from the CGI exteriors. Way too pristine and distracting. I’d prefer they just cut those. It’s not perfect but it’s exactly what I need now. A slow, beautiful soapy period piece. I think Carrie Coon is just sublime. I’m in love with her. I think the entire case is great and I love seeing all my Broadway peeps since I’ve been separated from them for so long. Seeing them all made me emotional. 
 

I miss Merchant Ivory films. Those were the best and they would have never used CGI but I understand limitations of budget and availability.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 2:36pm

The Other One said: "I can't be the only person who never, ever needs to see another variation on the Upstairs/Downstairs theme (which, to be fair, goes back a lot further than that). Add to that the fact that most of the people in this cast, good as they are, are overexposed on television these days as it is.

OVERexposed??  Sure, Jan.

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 3:39pm

Nearly every movie has CGI skies nowadays because it's just easier to control. And some of them look reeeeaally bad. (Like in WSS, when Ansel comes out of the bulkhead during the Tonight Quintet)

The alternative to CGI for something like this is simply not showing the exteriors, or cutting money from somewhere else (such as number of characters, or costumes). Otherwise you basically have to build that entire UES block on a sound studio for your exteriors, since East 61st & 5th looks wildly different now than it did in the 1880s. And if it's cheaply built, then that's arguably worse than just using CGI.

THE CROWN has the benefit of being a British production filmed in sound studios and in places that still look antique to this day. (It probably also has a higher budget at Netflix)

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 6:23pm

Just finished the episode- and it ended with a gay relationship- and I am hoping that the characterization is not as artificial as the relationship between some of the black and white characters- hoping they do not treat homosexuality during this era as matter-of-fact- not a big deal acceptable reality- it was not. I will be very disappointed if this relationship is handled in a less than historically accurate way- just as I doubt that the friendship between the black secretary and the newcomer to the old money family is a reality-based depiction of race relations during this era.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/25/22 at 6:58pm

You raise solid points about the gay relationship mirroring the (questionable) accuracy of the black/white friendships. As noted above, I found the depiction of racist bias isolated to the downstairs characters ahistorical. It feels like wishful projection to exonerate the upper class, particularly the old money legacy-preserving characters. But Glamour has an interview with Benton in which she discusses the specific notes she gave to make that relationship more accurate. She decidedly had issues. One wonders what the script was like before she contributed. 

The gay relationship feels contemporary and thus altogether comfortable, which though a positive portrayal of LGBTQ lives has a whiff of anachronism. I thought it was Fellowes and HBO throwing an invested community -- the gay audience for Downton legendary -- a small reward, but we'll have to see how it's developed. Perhaps significant: most reviews of the first five episodes do not mention any gay relationships. Yet it's early, so we'll keep an open mind.  

Yet Vanity Fair, an outlier on the subject, worries about this, too:

"As was true of Downton Abbey, there is a main-ish gay character on The Gilded Age, once again a mostly closeted schemer and half villain—because, I suppose, Fellowes is going to Fellowes. This character at least is shown in moments of intimacy with another man, cognizant that he must marry a woman to keep up appearances, but steadfastly determined to maintain his discreet lifestyle all the while. Is that progress? Maybe, though I hope he doesn’t get stuck in the same eddy of secrecy and conniving that trapped Downton’s Thomas."

Updated On: 1/25/22 at 06:58 PM