Washington Post: Scott Rudin “stepping back” from Broadway ventures- Page 2

[Luminaire2]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 12:51pm

Just take a look at Karen’s story. Example shared of someone else doing similar things when abuse comes out, stepping back, but ultimately still having control and making profit off the work of those they abused.

As Karen’s story emphasized, the fight isn’t over just because he issue this vague statement.

Updated On: 4/17/21 at 12:51 PM

[bear88]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 1:08pm

First reaction I've seen:

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Actors-Equity-Calls-on-Scott-Rudin-to-Release-Employees-from-Nondisclosure-Agreements-20210417

My guess: the answer will be no. Rudin is going to try to ride this out with his vague statement and apology. I'm not sure it will work but we'll see.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 2:36pm

I’m guessing he made this statement to guarantee The Music Man goes on as planned. He “steps back”, (which makes people think he’s not involved) Hugh still stars in the show and Rudin still profits.
Gross.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 2:46pm

@ctorres "financed" generally means "put up the money for" vs. "secured the financing." He is much more of the latter. 

@Betty I think you misapprehend how "A-listers" work, which is in private. Make no mistake: it's them that made this happen. And those same people are not going to let him cause this (very bad for business) turmoil again.

@ Ermengarde His crime related to his personal involvement, not his money making. I really don't see a basis for punishing him economically beyond the obvious punitive effect of not having the same participation and thus income from shows. If you have a forfeiture theory to convince me otherwise, I'll listen.

@Jorge My guess (and we will know soon enough) is that there will be new lead producers (in at least some cases in name only) and that an executive producer (likely Wagner/Johnson) will step in to run things on a day to day basis.

More broadly, as Kad said more or less, actions speak louder than words and if he is laboring under the notion that a PR stunt on a Saturday morning (that was no accident btw) then he will be called out in a NY minute. Do not expect more statements or for this to play out in public. But also don't expect a Garth Drabinsky shadow return to fly: it won't. As I think I said earlier, one of the things about the theatre is that almost nothing takes place without witnesses. If people start seeing his fingerprints, it will not go unnoticed, and because of how he operates, those fingerprints won't fool google. If there is abusive behavior, the same people and organizations will be on it. 

Finally, @bear88, that "demand" is mostly window dressing. New York law releases employees from NDAs for the purpose of communicating with a lawyer or a governmental entity on the state or local level. That may leave an extra hoop to jump through for the union to get involved, but there are easy workarounds. (Still, easy to understand why AEA would like the broader release, and it of course would be a quick barometer of his sincerity.)

[JBroadway]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 3:03pm

Mixed feelings about this.

I think this was realistically the best case scenario, and I am happy that the industry outcry has been successful in a way that won’t sacrifice the jobs of the people in his productions. But like many people in this thread, I have some lingering concerns:

I agree that the apology isn’t to be taken super seriously, but as other’s have said, it’s more important to examine his actions than his words.

If he does, in fact, keep cutting a paycheck from these productions, I can’t help but wonder if this issue is really resolved. Because going to see his productions will ultimately mean supporting him. But then I think, well, if the ultimate goal is harm reduction, and not punishment for the sake of punishment, then I guess it’s good that he will no longer be in the driver’s seat, and that he will have been taken down a peg. But won’t he still have assistants to abuse? It’s not like his company is being dissolved. And has is he taking steps to improve working conditions? Unlikely, but I hope so. I suppose the public scrutiny should keep him tame at least for a while. But we have to keep that scrutiny up. And yes, people should have the opportunity for redemption. But the longer you’ve been an abuser, the higher that bar for redemption is. And Rudin’s bar is very high.

In my first post on this topic, WAY back in the middle of last week (god, remember those days?) I said that boycotts ultimately come down to personal choice, and to what degree each individual is willing to rationalize unethical consummation of media for their own pleasure, and what ethical consumption even means. And I said in that post, I’m not excluded from that. It’s something I will definitely be thinking about carefully in the coming weeks/months.

As for his contributions: some may remember that I’ve actually defended Scott Rudin’s controversial business decisions in the past, because I considered him to be the most valuable producer we have in commercial theatre. I was something of a Scott Rudin devotee, from an audience standpoint anyway. It wasn’t until I became aware that his assh*lery crossed the line into abuse that I “switched sides” as it were. So yes, I can’t lie and say that I think the caliber of Broadway will be the same with him out of the picture (if he does indeed go out of the picture, which remains to be seen). But at the end of the day, the health and safety of Broadway’s employees is more important than Rudin’s cultural contributions. And I also have hope (especially with the upcoming slate of announced shows) that there will be other, more ethical producers who will carry the torch of keeping genuine artistic quality on Broadway. 
 

EDIT: in the time it took me to type this - Hogan beat me to some of it! 

Updated On: 4/17/21 at 03:03 PM

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 3:17pm

I hope Wagner & Johnson don’t step in for him.

They are his enablers and they’re toxic. No one should aspire to be like any of them.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 4:19pm

@JBroadway re "paycheck," I would assume that the producer's fee and charges would be eliminated so no "paycheck." I expect he will be compensated via profits post recoupment, if any. (Caveat: I know nothing.) Re his office, I assume he will keep it and he has not said anything about what he will do in relation to film. What I do know is that he will be walking around on pins and needles. I have no idea if he will actually get help but if he does not his future is going to be pretty bleak. I discussed this briefly with a mental health professional friend and while no one can say there are situations like this where a cloud and a burden are lifted. Some of the pathology I see (and tbc this is just me, not my friend, and I am no mental health expert), which may not be anywhere near all, is that he has long exhibited an extreme inferiority complex (for well documented reasons). He also came into an abusive business world, and like abused children who become abusers, dealt with people in the only way he knew. {None of this excuses any of it of course.}

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 5:17pm

unclevictor said: "I hope Wagner & Johnson don’t step in for him.

They are his enablers and they’re toxic. No one should aspire to be like any of them."

That is the problem with Parnes/Wagner/Johnson and Barry Diller and Sonia Friedman and Roy Furman and Rick Miramontez and SpotCo and all these other people from Rudinworld: none of this is a surprise to them, and they've personally dealt with Rudin's tantrums for years. When you're the consigliere or financier of an abuser, your view of "acceptable" behavior becomes tainted. So this is going to be a real moment to regroup for everyone.

The shows that were already running (Mormon, Mockingbird, WSS) can easily be run by the GM or EP; David Turner's office has already been doing that on Mormon for a decade. Hugh Jackman has a close relationship with Robert Fox so perhaps he comes aboard for MM if he wasn't already a co-producer on it.

The shows Rudin was planning to do are the big wildcards. Projects like Toni Collette's Mame or Dustin Hoffman's Our Town or Adam Guettel's Millions could look quite different if they eventually make it to Broadway –– in budget, in the onstage production, and certainly in the advertising/marketing strategy. Raising money for prestige projects is tough enough for any producer, and without Rudin there will be really good plays that never make it to Broadway. Hopefully the shows that get produced in their place will be of equal or greater merit, and perhaps even more diverse.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 6:52pm

This is a hollow gesture. If anyone believes he is “stepping back” from anything, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 6:59pm

Correct. He will be silent yet profit just as much as before. This changes nothing. 

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 7:19pm

Sutton Ross said: "Correct. He will be silent yet profit just as much as before. This changes nothing."

So basically, his name will be removed from the credits of running/future productions of which he had previously been attached, but he will be making just as much money as he did pre-pandemic if/when his shows were to recoup? That would just be sneaky and downright ridiculous.

Updated On: 4/17/21 at 07:19 PM

[A Director]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 7:20pm

Sutton Ross said: "Correct. He will be silent yet profit just as much as before. This changes nothing."

I am not defending Scott Rudin.  You won't be happy until he is Drawn and Quartered in Times Square. No doubt, you'd sell popcorn to the crowd.

 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 7:35pm

Haha. I have barely said a thing about this topic compared to other people. I am a good person and don't like people who physically abuse their employees though, I will that say (not ever) a Director. Kisses. 

Ps: Men who start sentences with "Im not defending (insert predator here)" are always defending them. 

So basically, his name will be removed from the credits of running/future productions of which he had previously been attached, but he will be making just as much money as he did pre-pandemic if/when his shows were to recoup? That would just be sneaky and downright ridiculous.

Correct, JL. 

Updated On: 4/17/21 at 07:35 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/17/21 at 7:58pm

I don't think we know how this is going to shake out. What I do know is that the offense involves Rudin's interactions with human beings. [Note the absence of the word "other."] I expect that he will lose his (substantial) income for being the producer and that he will be subtracted from interacting with humans. That is a response consistent with his wrongs. There is no lawful basis for forfeiting his profits so I encourage folks to focus on the achievable which frankly deprives him of his oxygen. Now let's see if they can make that happen. If not, and people start bailing, they will really have a donnybrook and no one will have to worry about profits.

Updated On: 4/17/21 at 07:58 PM

[JayElle]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 7:03am

If "Mr. Rude" steps back with no staff interaction, what is their objective for release of the NDA? To file a personal injury suit?  They are free to file criminal charges for assault/battery regardless of an NDA. Or for other injury.

Stepping back does not necessarily mean financial loss, but more likely control. He'll likely get his share of profits even if he relinquishes public credit/involvement.  Much like Patinkin wanted no involvement in the Great Comet Oak replacement dispute, Jackman, Foster similarly can't let "Rude's" quicksand pull them under

The unions and League have no credibility to claim his actions were inexcusable as if they were unaware of his hostile history.  They simply turned a blind eye until too much crap hit the wall.

 

[Dolly80]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 7:11am

This is all just saving face.

If he didn’t look to ‘step back’- Hugh Jackman would have been forced into quitting The Music Man and the whole
Production would collapse.

I’m pretty sure Rudin will still be sat in his office/home shouting down his phone at people and micromanaging everything. Just not physically I’m the theatre as much.

[bwayobsessed]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 10:13am

Sutton was just talking about it on her IG live. She basically said that she wanted to assure people that just because things weren’t being said publicly doesn’t mean that they weren’t being said which I think is fair. The one thing she said that sorta irked me was that the solution that happened was “the best one”. Which makes it seem sorta like him just stepping back without being removed is actually solving things and it certainly doesn’t do anything to halt further workplace abuses by other people in the industry.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 10:49am

bwayobsessed said: "Which makes it seem sorta like him just stepping back without being removed is actually solving things and it certainly doesn’t do anything to halt further workplace abuses by other people in the industry."

At this point, no one knows where the "step back" will fall on the real or fake continuum, so we have to wait. But if it falls near the unsatisfactory end of the spectrum, I have no doubt that there will be people who will not tolerate it and there will be ongoing trouble. This type of meltdown is precisely what the powers that be are seeking to avoid which is why I am optimistic that Rudin will not be involved. And it is important to keep our eye on the ball and not get distracted by side issues. This is about workplace abuse. 

I am not sure what you mean by "removed" in contradistinction to "stepping back." I am also confused by your reference to abuses by others. What does dealing forcefully with Rudin have to do with that? Workplace abuse is against the law, and that law is pretty strong. What are you looking for in this context?

[bwayobsessed]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 10:56am

I agree that step back still has a lot of vagueness to it but it’s not like Rudin’s company is dissolved I think it sounds like Rudin will still be making money off of this but who knows at this point.

Removed being from the industry rather than just being a behind closed doors sort of player.

I think the issues that many are concerned about is that this is about so much more than Scott Rudin. The entire structure of Broadway has allowed abuse and/or inhuman working conditions that line producer’s pockets rather than fairly compensating the people actually doing the work. Just scapegoating Scott Rudin as the problem doesn’t solve the structural issues.

[broadfan327]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 11:22am

Roger Friedman doesn't think much of the announcement:

https://www.showbiz411.com/2021/04/17/broadway-producer-scott-rudins-act-of-contrition-should-get-a-tony-hes-saving-his-mega-music-man-production

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 11:28am

bwayobsessed said: "I agree that step back still has a lot of vagueness to it but it’s not like Rudin’s company is dissolved I think it sounds like Rudin will still be making money off of this but who knows at this point.

Removed being from the industry rather than just being a behind closed doors sort of player.

I think the issues that many are concerned about is that this is about so much more than Scott Rudin. The entire structure of Broadway has allowed abuse and/or inhuman working conditions that line producer’s pockets rather than fairly compensating the people actually doing the work. Just scapegoating Scott Rudin as the problem doesn’t solve the structural issues."

Rudin will still be profiting to the extent there are profits and he has points, but this action relates to workplace abuse, not solving all of the world's problems. What mechanism is there or could there be for forfeiture? What does it even mean to remove someone from "the industry." There has been talk of kicking him out of the League, but how do we remove someone more broadly? Regarding the rest of the industry, I guess my response is one step at a time. The immediately important thing is to deal with this ogre soundly. Changing "the entire structure of Broadway" is a tall order. Do you propose waiting to deal with Rudin until then? I am also not sure exactly what you are talking about. I think you have to identify precisely what you want to fix before you can fix it.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 11:50am

broadfan327 said: "Roger Friedman doesn't think much of the announcement:

https://www.showbiz411.com/2021/04/17/broadway-producer-scott-rudins-act-of-contrition-should-get-a-tony-hes-saving-his-mega-music-man-production"


This article pretty much nails it. Thanks for posting it, Broadfan327!

 Bush/Parnes/Johnson/Wagner should not take over. Ever. Again, they are his enablers. They stood silent. They profited. They got rich, while other suffered.  They are just as shady and complicit.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 12:25pm

HogansHero said: "bwayobsessed said: "Which makes it seem sorta like him just stepping back without being removed is actually solving things and it certainly doesn’t do anything to halt further workplace abuses by other people in the industry."

At this point, no one knowswherethe "step back" will fall on the real or fake continuum, so we have to wait. But if it falls near the unsatisfactory end of the spectrum, I have no doubt that there will be people who will not tolerate it and there will be ongoing trouble. This type of meltdown is precisely what the powers that be are seeking to avoid which is why I am optimistic that Rudin will not be involved. And it is important to keep our eye on the ball and not get distracted by side issues. This is about workplace abuse.

I am not sure what you mean by "removed" in contradistinction to "stepping back." I am also confused by your reference to abuses by others. What does dealing forcefully with Rudinhave to do with that?Workplace abuse is against the law, and that law is pretty strong. What are you looking for in this context?"

Yup that's it right there in a nutshell. 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 12:30pm

unclevictor said: "broadfan327 said: "Roger Friedman doesn't think much of the announcement:

https://www.showbiz411.com/2021/04/17/broadway-producer-scott-rudins-act-of-contrition-should-get-a-tony-hes-saving-his-mega-music-man-production"


This article pretty much nails it. Thanks for posting it, Broadfan327!

Bush/Parnes/Johnson/Wagner should not take over. Ever. Again, they are his enablers. They stood silent. They profited. They got rich, while other suffered. They are just as shady and complicit."

 

Yup that article affirms what I said earlier. He is "stepping back" from nothing. It's all smoke and mirrors to shut people up. 

Updated On: 4/18/21 at 12:30 PM

[joevitus]

Posted: 4/18/21 at 12:35pm

The desire for vengeance (on behalf of others, at that, not one's self) is kinda bizarre, especially such a silly vengeance as withholding profits. I thought this was about stoping abuse and concern for people who haven't the power to speak. I hope he does still make money from the shows he produced, as he did indeed produce them and thus is owed those profits. It's one thing to say he shouldn't participate in future productions because of his behavior, and thus profits that could have been his won't be. But he doesn't stop becoming responsible for the success of shows he produced because his methods and behavior were odious. 

Hopefully, "stepping away" will mean he won't be involved day to day, so staffers won't be put in harm's way, and "taking steps" will mean therapy/anger management. It may mean neither of these things, and I understand the snorts from commenters here. But those changes should be the goal, as that's where real change and improvement would occur. "I don't want you making money from shows you produced" is just empty spite, and meaningless in terms of any real change (and likely meaningless even to Rudin's financial health, considering the amount he's already made).