Broadway Flops succeeding in Europe

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 9/24/19 at 12:14pm

I just went through a rabbit hole of Instagram photos and I noticed that pretty woman was opening a production in Hamburg and it got me wondering how can such a disaster of a show consider this to be a smart move. I kept going and noticed it wasnt only Pretty woman, but quite a few Broadway Flops are running to packed houses over in Europe due to Stage Entertainment. Anastasia has 3 productions selling to packed houses, ghost the musical is still going strong over there. Is this a relatively recent occurrence? Are all these flops guaranteed a successful run over in Europe?

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 9/24/19 at 12:17pm

Not recent: See also Starlight Express and Jekyll & Hyde.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 9/24/19 at 12:21pm

I think its all personal preference. I mean, up until about 2 years ago, Disney's Tarzan was playing non stop since it premiered in German in 2007. 

To me, it only seems to be either popular titles adapted from movies to the stage, or the music is written by international superstars. 

[markypoo]

Posted: 9/24/19 at 8:33pm

_jorge:

Kindly enlighten me as to just how you yourself define a flop.

[Wick3]

Posted: 9/24/19 at 8:59pm

LizzieCurry said: "Not recent: See also Starlight Express and Jekyll & Hyde."

Wasn’t the theater in Germany specifically designed for Starlight Express? Someday if I’m in Germany would love to see it again sitting in the seats that turn!

[Dallas Theatre Fan]

Posted: 9/24/19 at 10:28pm

9 to 5 is doing pretty good on the West End right now. 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 9/24/19 at 10:50pm

markypoo said: "_jorge: 

Kindly enlighten me as to just how you yourself define a flop.."

Any show that fails to recoup its initial investment 

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 9/24/19 at 11:15pm

Wick3 said: "LizzieCurry said: "Not recent: See also Starlight Express and Jekyll & Hyde."

Wasn’t the theater in Germany specifically designed for Starlight Express? Someday if I’m in Germany would love to see it again sitting in the seats that turn!"

Yes it was. And, interestingly enough, they had a one time only performance in English recently. And, there have been many former “Billy Elliott’s” from the West End who have performed in the Germany production of Starlight over the years.

Interestingly enough, I was reading an interview with the head of stage entertainment, He said that the audiences that attend their productions around Europe tend to favor style over substance. That was one of the reasons why something like Tarzan did well there and not so hot here. They tried to put on shoes that are well known golden age of musicals type shows. But, they don’t do well there at all. But that’s one reason why I think something like Paramour would do great business there although flopped hard here in New York. They have been know to attach themselves to shows on Broadway as producers with the goal being to take it to Germany or other European markets. They were one of the producers of Pretty Woman for example when it was on Broadway. Not shocked to see it in Germany as a result 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 9/25/19 at 12:12am

The musicals that succeed overseas are not unlike the Hollywood films that make bank internationally: visually-oriented spectacles. Or, to put it crudely, properties with universal themes that audiences can enjoy without understanding English (even if the films/musicals have subtitles or are translated).

Some shows have international investors who get the rights for a certain territory (UK, Australia, Asia, Europe, etc) in exchange for investing in the Broadway production. Tootsie, like Pretty Woman, has already announced preliminary international plans. Some people wait to come to the table after the Broadway opening.

[Mark_E]

Posted: 9/25/19 at 3:48am

Legally Blonde was a big hit in London and as has been mentioned further up, 9 to 5 is doing good business. Both big movies.
Compare to Spring Awakening and Drowsy Chaperone which failed over here.

[Raven4]

Posted: 9/25/19 at 4:22am

Tarzan received a big overhaul before it was brought to the Netherlands and Germany and looked much better than it had on Broadway. However Little Mermaid still failed and didn't live on after a Dutch tour. 

Anastasia has been reasonably successful in Madrid only. The German production played for less than a year in a half-empty theatre (although pricing is ever an issue) and the Dutch production has only just opened to luke-warm reviews. Pretty Woman is also only just opening. Whether it becomes a success remains to be seen. Rocky flopped on both sides of the Atlantic. 

That said, yes, of course European producers like Stage Entertainment try to back internationally known titles like Pretty Woman and Anastasia that stand a chance of survival here. Hamilton would never work - it's more or less untranslatable, people have no idea who he was and few are interested in the story of America's founding fathers told in rap and hip hop. 

Another thing is that countries like Germany have no long musical tradition. They "discovered" musicals through the big blockbusters of the 80s and 90s (Cats, Phantom, etc.) and still believe that musicals need to be visual spectacle and come with a lot of larger-than-life ballads. Hence the popularity of Frank Wildhorn in Germany. Stage Entertainment is doing well to bring stuff like Cirque du Soleil's Paramour that's also style over substance. Starlight Express keeps doing well because it's reasonably priced, it's one of the few to take the kids to and the only big musical in the most densely populated state of Germany.

[binau]

Posted: 9/25/19 at 5:15am

"9 to 5 is doing pretty good on the West End right now."

I just find it so interesting - because Europe and London is stereotypically more 'cultured' than the US, I have found that people assume Broadway is the more commercial, trashier, less artistic platform for musical theatre than the West End. But in reality it's the complete, complete opposite - New York City is high art for musicals and we should be so proud of that.

 

[ScarletSongs]

Posted: 9/25/19 at 5:18am

As some others have mentioned, Stage Entertainment invests in a lot of musicals that already have a name and/or a fanbase: Tarzan, Rocky, Pretty Woman, Amélie, Sister Act, Aladdin... Therefore, these shows are brought over (or some of them are even tried out in Germany before they go to Broadway) because they already put money into them. So, no matter if they flop on Broadway, they just try to grab the German audience's attention. To a certain level, this works. But you rarely get a sold out house with these shows even if some of them run more successfully than others.

The German audience tends to choose a show that they already kind of know - that's why the Disney musicals are well-frequented. But also, in the big theatres there is not much else to choose. Almost all productions by Stage Entertainment (which is the biggest musical theatre production company in Germany) are based on a movie or another pre-existing material. They rarely produce something new or more artsy. So the audience just goes into those big name shows because that's all they have to choose from.

When Next to Normal was put on by a city theatre, the press was ecstatic because it was so different from the "big show, happy ending" type of musical that the Germans are used to.

And here comes another factor into play: The city theatres.

Unlike America, Germany has no Broadway. The closest you get is Hamburg, which has currently 4 big theatres run by Stage Entertainment and a huge number of smaller theatres with more niche shows and plays. But most bigger cities have their own city theatre which brings plays, operas and musicals on stage and offer season tickets. These productions are not bound to the original staging and design of the shows they play, so you could watch a production of Cabaret or Jesus Christ Superstar in 7 different cities and each of them would have a completely different design, staging and sometimes might even focus on different elements of the story. Therefore, these shows are usually much more interesting because the director develops his/her own vision based on the material.

As mentioned before, Frank Wildhorn's musicals are usually well attended because they have a lot of "drama" and are mostly set in an historic european setting - which seemingly works better in Europe than in America. Also, they fall in the same category of "a musical based on a story the audience already kind of knows". This even lead Wildhorn to write a show especially for the european market: "Rudolf - Affaire Mayerling" about the crown prince and son of Elisabeth, empress of Austria. These historic stories work quite well in the German speaking countries.

So, yes, some Broadway flops make their way to Europe and some do perform better but not all of them.

Updated On: 9/25/19 at 05:18 AM

[Fan123]

Posted: 9/25/19 at 8:08am

If you're interested, the below 2016 article, focusing on the inverse question ('why would Broadway hits, flop here?' ) for Germany, mentions some of the points covered above. It also theorises that due to the monopoly of Stage Entertainment, a lack of competition means less drive to innovate or diversify in the genre, which in turn keeps the musicals audience relatively narrow, which in turn further encourages safe programming choices.

http://kulturpoebel.de/2016/02/warum-die-broadway-hits-in-deutschland-nicht-funktionieren/

Updated On: 9/25/19 at 08:08 AM

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 9/25/19 at 8:49am

Audiences responded to Chaplin better overseas (after some script and design changes) than they did here, too.

[duketgg]

Posted: 2/2/20 at 2:05pm

You forgot to mention the show which is still going strong in all the German-speaking countries (well, everywhere in Europe, actually), but was one of the biggest Broadway disasters - Tanz der Vampire (aka Dance of the Vampires).

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 2/2/20 at 2:52pm

Well, the Tanz vs. DOTV issue was more a matter of approach. The problems that were present in the American version are truthfully equally present in the European. 

In both editions, it could never decide whether it was fish or flesh, comedy or serious drama, and as a result it was neither. (This is a show that, in either case, requires its audience to take "Total Eclipse of the Heart" seriously as a love duet between a vampire and his potential victim at the top of Act II, sharing space with a song later in the same act where that vampire lectures the audience on how our greed will be our doom, monologuing about the existential pain of eternal life and of losing everything and everyone he loves.)

Moreover, in a broad sense, both versions tread essentially the same path -- in Tanz's case, its original form constantly winks at the mega-musical genre, conjuring memories of The Phantom of the Opera with chief vampire Krolock's material, and Les Misérables in songs like "Garlic." As for DOTV, faced with a book and score ultimately at odds with each other, the American creative team decided on a sophomoric silly approach in hopes the results would be perceived as a more direct parody of mega-musicals, like the later stage version of Young Frankenstein. (And were about as successful as YF was in its Broadway incarnation.)

Difference was in that old George Abbott truism: "If you play it for comedy, it won't work. If you play it for real, it will." There's never been a better example. Tanz played it straight, with a dark, subtle sense of humor, whereas DOTV went for the laughs, milking every "punchline" it could. One approach is clearly better than the other if you want the piece to appear seamless and disguise its intrinsic issues, and the proof is in how long it's been running all over Europe.

Updated On: 2/3/20 at 02:52 PM

[zainmax]

Posted: 2/2/20 at 3:11pm

Got to go to Hamburg, apparently... https://www.forbes.com/sites/marchershberg/2019/02/28/springtime-for-hamilton-as-hit-show-heads-to-hamburg/#4dd7596a2228

[jvoom]

Posted: 2/2/20 at 3:26pm

qolbinau said: ""9 to 5 isdoing pretty good on the West End right now."

I just find it so interesting - because Europe and London is stereotypically more 'cultured' than the US, I have found that people assumeBroadway is the more commercial, trashier, less artistic platform for musical theatre than the West End. But in reality it's the complete, complete opposite - New York City is high art for musicals and we should be so proud of that.

"

I couldn't agree more. So often when a show transfers to the UK it opens with z-list celebrities, reality stars and soap actors. 

[trpguyy]

Posted: 2/2/20 at 3:29pm

It is my understanding that the Hamilton Hamburg plans have been scrapped.

[Owen22]

Posted: 2/2/20 at 3:31pm

qolbinau said: ""9 to 5 isdoing pretty good on the West End right now."

I just find it so interesting - because Europe and London is stereotypically more 'cultured' than the US, I have found that people assumeBroadway is the more commercial, trashier, less artistic platform for musical theatre than the West End. But in reality it's the complete, complete opposite - New York City is high art for musicals and we should be so proud of that."

All the interesting Broadway musicals now tend to transfer off West End or Fringe (or in between places like the National, the Almeida, the Old Vic or Young Vic). The rights owners of Grey Gardens held out for a long time for a West End production which never came to fruition and ended up letting Southwark Playhouse do a terrific version of the show. I assume that will happen eventually with Next To Normal, as the rights holders are still demanding a West End production or nothing.

 

Updated On: 2/2/20 at 03:31 PM

[binau]

Posted: 2/2/20 at 4:03pm

And to be fair, maybe that's the economical thing to do. It was somewhat sad to see Caroline, or Change go from a couple of sold out runs to struggling on the West End. 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 2/2/20 at 6:56pm

Does anyone know the names of the Hamburg theaters? Would love to Google search them!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 2/2/20 at 8:27pm

Raven4 said: "...
Another thing is that countries like Germany have no long musical tradition...."

I know exactly what you meant, Raven, and I appreciate your sharing your considerable knowledge of European theater.

Nonetheless, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Strauss (both of them), Wagner and Brecht are all spinning in their graves. LOL.

But you are exactly right that some of the musicals we find silly are the biggest hits in Europe. It may be a matter of limited supply, but it is also a critical issue in that European audiences--even those from the intelligentsia--appreciate light-weight content for formalist reasons. A mentor of mine--a distinguish Polish scholar who not only speaks eight or nine languages, but is published in those languages as well--often said, "Why do Americans keep apologizing for their musicals? It's the one form of American theater that is respected around the world!" 

Updated On: 2/2/20 at 08:27 PM

[Raven4]

Posted: 2/3/20 at 1:21am

GavestonPS said: "Raven4 said: "...
Another thing is that countries like Germany have no long musical tradition...."

I know exactly what you meant, Raven, and I appreciate your sharing your considerable knowledge of European theater.

Nonetheless, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Strauss (both of them), Wagner and Brecht are all spinning in their graves. LOL.

I'm sure you are aware that by "musical tradition" I was referring to musical theatre and not to music in general. Although it does make me realize how easily things get lost in translation. The English language qualifies this particular (American) genre as "musical theatre" whereas in German it's referred to as "Musicals" so I didn't add the qualifier. The German word "Musiktheater" which would be a direct translation, encompasses every kind of sung performance, including opera and operetta, which indeed we have a long tradition of. The latter of being the German version of early musical theatre that ground to a halt in the 20s and 30s.  We then came to appreciate the "light" American entertainment of musical theatre as it's the only genre that is merely entertaining and out to offer the audience a fun evening out. We have enough heavy-weight leaden and cerebral dramas and abstract bizarre Regietheater operas. 

And yes, Hamilton has been scrapped. There are different rumours as to why, but my guess is simply that producers realized there is absolutely no chance of success for a badly translated German version of a show whose subject is of zero interest to people here. Stage Entertainment is now developing a musical based on a moderately successful TV show set in the 50s Berlin. Whether it will take off, who knows.

For the Hamburg theatres, you can take a look here:

https://www.stage-entertainment.de/unternehmen/theater-vermietung/theater-vermietung.html