Pre-Broadway sell outs that flopped on Broadway

[singer234]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 11:58am

This whole conversation about Gatsby being a huge flop if it transfers, even after a sold out run (though only a month and with a subscriber base built it in at a midsize “broadway” house) has me thinking:

What are some shows that completely sold out their Pre-Broadway engagements, and flopped when they transferred to Broadway? Is there any data out there about this?

Thanks in advance!!!

[quizking101]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 12:11pm

It all depends on the definition of "Flop" since, in most financial contexts, most musicals eventually flop.

Some I can think of are JAGGED LITTLE PILL and GROUNDHOG DAY (big hit in London, but died here),

[BugsOmaha]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 12:13pm

ONCE UPON A ONE MORE TIME played to sold-out, extended run in DC @ Shakespeare Theater Company before flopping on Broadway. A shame imo, I'm part of the minority who really likes that show

[ACL2006]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 12:19pm

American Idiot, Bandstand, the 2006 Company revival.

Updated On: 11/11/23 at 12:19 PM

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 12:27pm

Devil Wears Prada broke house records here in Chicago and now that whole production has been scrapped. 

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 12:35pm

Tootsie - glowing reception in Chicago, and then it fell on its face on Broadway.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 12:46pm

As you allude to in the original post, this is a meaningless comparison. Smart producers view good sales for a limited-run nonprofit premiere as "nice but irrelevant," especially if the house has like 600 seats or less. Bad sales should be a warning sign for trouble ahead (Paradise Square in Chicago,Transparent in LA, the NY nonprofit runs of Torch Song, Prayer For The French Republic, and Pal Joey were not close to sold-out). Especially for a commercial tryout.


Regardless of the sales, it will always be advertised as "direct from a sold-out run at X." 

A smart producer can usually sense when there's genuine appetite for a show, versus just mild curiosity. Which was probably the thinking behind moving THE SIGN IN SIDNEY BRUSTEIN'S WINDOW, which had 2 big stars, sold very well in Brooklyn at Broadway-level prices (in a Broadway-sized house), and then moved to Bway too quickly and never gained momentum. Or the finite audience who wanted to pay full price to see it had already been in Brooklyn and didn't care to go again at full price.

Updated On: 11/11/23 at 12:46 PM

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 12:59pm

Charley Kringas Inc said: "Tootsie - glowing reception in Chicago, and then it fell on its face on Broadway."

Tootsie was an interesting case study. The Broadway run started out with pretty glowing reviews too. NYT Critics Pick, solid enough initial sales, people on here had some reservations about the score but couldn't stop talking about how funny the book & cast were. TOOTSIE looked like a much better bet than BEETLEJUICE at the time of their openings. But then word of mouth caught up...BJ started developing a cult following that rapidly grew, TOOTSIE was viewed as cold, and it wasn't helped by the so-called "transphobia" of the story (which was an unhelpful distraction but had virtually nothing to do with its poor sales; I assume the same was true of Jagged Little Pill).

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 1:10pm

Almost Famous and Bandstand.

 

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 1:12pm

Was Lempicka sold out at La Jolla or Williamstown?

[singer234]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 1:19pm

Good question, which also reminds me that since subscriptions have plummeted at regional theatres, a sold out regional run pre-covid is different from one today, as productions now have to rely more heavily on single ticket sales to accommodate for the shortfall.

[quizking101]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 1:36pm

Actually, since Papermill shows are trending in here, HERCULES was also a more-or-less completely sold out run where it was impossible to get tickets by the time the run started, but then the rough reviews tanked any hope of a Broadway transfer and I believe it's going oversees to Germany to test run and modify there.

[Soozie]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 1:55pm

Call_me_jorge said: "Devil Wears Prada broke house records here in Chicago and now that whole production has been scrapped."

The whole production was not "scrapped." It has gone through revisions and is opening in the UK and eventually in the West End next year. 

Further, this thread is about productions that sold out pre-Broadway that flopped on Broadway. This show has not been on Broadway. 

Updated On: 11/11/23 at 01:55 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 2:04pm

Call_me_jorge said: "Devil Wears Prada broke house records here in Chicago and now that whole production has been scrapped."

That production will not have an out of town tryout in the UK before opening at the Dominion Theatre this winter. 

[Soozie]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 3:11pm

Jordan Catalano said: "Call_me_jorge said: "Devil Wears Prada broke house records here in Chicago and now that whole production has been scrapped."

That production will not have an out of town tryout in the UK before opening at the Dominion Theatre this winter."

That production will have an out of town tryout in the UK at Theatre Royal Plymouth  in July, 2024 before moving to the Dominion Theater in October 2024. 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 3:37pm

Soozie said: "Call_me_jorge said: "Devil Wears Prada broke house records here in Chicago and now that whole production has been scrapped."

The whole production was not "scrapped." It has gone through revisions and is opening in the UK and eventually in the West End next year."

If you’re replacing the entire design team and director I’d define that as the whole production being scrapped.

I guess whether it would be a flop on Broadway is a moot point. Clearly the producer thought it would be a flop on broadway, despite the financial success it had in Chicago.

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 4:14pm

"Almost Famous and Bandstand."

I really enjoyed "Bandstand" and was sad it did not run longer. The dancing was excellent (won Tony award) and I personally enjoy the music from the WWII era. Laura Osnes and Corey Cott were excellent IMO and did have a good chemistry together. Beth Leavel was also excellent in a supporting role. I thought this type of show might pull in an older audience and have a decent run. When my wife and I saw it, we were seated next to a younger couple (in their 30's) and they seemed to enjoy it. If I remember correctly, it got mixed reviews.

I loved the movie "Almost Famous" but never got chance to see the Broadway show. I was hoping it would hang around long enough for me to get to NYC and see it, but it did not happen.

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 9:05pm

I'm curious to see how Suffs does on Broadway after selling out downtown, but I think a lot will depend on the cast and what rewrite have been made.

[IronMan]

Posted: 11/11/23 at 11:20pm

ACL2006 said: "American Idiot, Bandstand, the 2006 Company revival."

American Idiot was critically acclaimed and ran over a year.  Hardly a flop. 

[WldKingdomHM]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 6:53am

The revival of J&H

[ACL2006]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 9:08am

IronMan said: "ACL2006 said: "American Idiot, Bandstand, the 2006 Company revival."

American Idiot was critically acclaimed and ran over a year. Hardly a flop."

The show's grosses say otherwise. ran for only 422 performances.

 

https://www.ibdb.com/broadway-production/american-idiot-485578#Statistics

[FANtomFollies]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 9:38am

IronMan said: "ACL2006 said: "American Idiot, Bandstand, the 2006 Company revival."

American Idiot was critically acclaimed and ran over a year. Hardly a flop."

It's becoming obvious many people on this forum don't know what a flop is. A flop is any show that fails to recoup it's investment and make a profit. It doesn't matter if it runs for a long time or is praised by critics or audiences. If it doesn't recoup, it is a flop.

[IronMan]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 10:16am

FANtomFollies said: "IronMan said: "ACL2006 said: "American Idiot, Bandstand, the 2006 Company revival."

American Idiot was critically acclaimed and ran over a year. Hardly a flop."

It's becoming obvious many people on this forum don't know what a flop is. A flop is any show that fails to recoup it's investment and make a profit. It doesn't matter if it runs for a long time or is praised by critics or audiences. If it doesn't recoup, it is a flop."

 I use the accepted Ken Mandelbaum standard of a flop as < 250 performances.  You can use whatever you like, but it doesn't make it so.  There is a vast difference between a show that didn't return its investment and a flop.  By your "logic," Carrie and Follies are equally flops. 

And that's all I have to say about that.  

Updated On: 11/12/23 at 10:16 AM

[inception]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 11:01am

I've been looking at getting tickets to The Wiz in LA & the few dates I checked were already well sold with just single seats & maybe a few pairs available in the orchestra. I don't think that will have any bearing on how it does in New York.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 11:24am

FANtomFollies said: "A flop is any show that fails to recoup its investment and make a profit."

The media reports around the closing announcement of American Idiot indicated that it was close to recouping but it was unclear if that would happen before the last performance. It had a very solid start, some lean winter months, and a strong finish. If anyone knows of a trustworthy source that could settle the matter of recoupment, I'd be very interested.