Dreamgirls film controversy

[Theatrefanboy1]

Posted: 6/16/21 at 5:05pm

Im curious about more of the details on the controversy related to the movie version that heather headley alluded to on stars in the house the other night. Anyone got some information

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 6/17/21 at 8:26am

The only thing I can think of is that Beyoncé was jealous of Jennifer Hudson and how much meatier of a role Effie was so she had “Listen” added so she got something too. But that’s all I can think of. I haven’t seen a stage production so I don’t know if it’s already in the show.

[7thbighero]

Posted: 6/17/21 at 8:29am

To the show’s detriment they added Listen for the 2009 tour and it’s been in the show ever since 

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 6/17/21 at 1:18pm

The "Listen" in the stage production has completely different lyrics and serves a much different function than it does in the film. I appreciate it makes the reconciliation between Effie and Deena a larger moment but I'm not sure it's necessary. 

That said, I've seen four major productions since they integrated "Listen" into the tour and none of them included that song. 

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 6/17/21 at 7:49pm

I wonder if she's referring to Jennifer Holliday's sore ass over not being involved; she wasn't offered a cameo, took it as a snub (especially after Loretta Devine got in), and so she put the movie on blast in the media for a while, until the BET Awards booked her to duet on the big number with Jennifer Hudson and suddenly everything was cool.

[silent]

Posted: 6/17/21 at 11:28pm

If the film is ever remade, Deena should not be light-skinned.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 12:38pm

When the question "if you had a time machine to travel back and see any Broadway show, what would you see, and why?" is asked 7/10 times the original cast of Dreamgirls is usually the answer if you ask many people (usually Funny Girl with Barbra or the original production of Follies are the other usuals) I would have thought that a remounting of the original production would have been something we would have seen by now, especially with the revival of A Chorus Line. 

[Alexander Lamar]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 12:52pm

silent said: "If the film is ever remade, Deena should not be light-skinned. "

I disagree. The colorism adds another layer of tension between the characters. 

[JSquared2]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 12:55pm

silent said: "If the film is ever remade, Deena should not be light-skinned."

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 12:57pm

I imagine the Michael Bennett estate (controlled by John Breglio, who produced that Chorus Line revival and the Dreamgirls tour) works a little differently with Dreamgirls than A Chorus Line. ACL was Michael's baby and he conceived it; the original staging is as integral as any of the writing. Dreamgirls was fully written by the time Michael came on (though it evolved a lot under him). Henry Krieger was involved with the DG film, and more people know DG for its film than its stage production now; if the song works dramaturgically, it may help audience enjoyment to include it. The attempted return-engagement of DG in 1987 (a recreation) was also short-lived, and Broadway sensibilities have evolved since then.

Remember, the revival of A Chorus Line got pretty awful reviews and was criticized for being a recreation of the original with an inferior cast. I hope that the inevitable 50th anniv production totally reimagines the piece.

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 2:41pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "I imagine the Michael Bennett estate (controlled by John Breglio, who produced that Chorus Line revival and the Dreamgirls tour) works a little differently withDreamgirlsthanA Chorus Line. ACL was Michael's baby and he conceived it; the original staging is as integral as any of the writing.Dreamgirlswas fully written by the time Michael came on (though it evolved a lot under him). Henry Krieger was involved with the DG film, and more people know DG for its film than its stage production now; if the song works dramaturgically, it may help audience enjoyment to include it. The attempted return-engagement of DG in 1987 (a recreation) was also short-lived, and Broadway sensibilities have evolved since then.

Remember, the revival ofA Chorus Linegot pretty awful reviews and was criticized for being a recreation of the original with an inferior cast. I hope that the inevitable 50th anniv production totally reimagines the piece."

Well, the criticism may about been "a recreation of the original with an inferior cast" but the emphasis of that criticism was totally on the latter half of that statement, not the former. I think a lot of people would welcome a Dreamgirls recreation. But the staging needs to be matched by the talent.

[binau]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 2:45pm

Alexander Lamar said: "silent said: "If the film is ever remade, Deena should not be light-skinned. "

I disagree. The colorism adds another layer of tension between the characters."

Yes - correct me if I'm wrong because it's been a while since I've seen the show/movie but isn't part of the whole subtext that Effie is 'too black' and not pretty enough to lead the group (despite having the best voice) because they need to cross-over to white audiences (cf. Deena), which is the whole injustice in the arc of her character that leads to her getting kicked out of the group and losing Curtis ("And I'm Telling You". 

In the same token, if I recall correctly this is why "Listen" feels so odd in the context of the actual show because it kind of undermines the whole point that it is Effie who is the character with the voice. Love the song and Beyonce's performance, I just wonder if it undermines Effie a little. 

Updated On: 6/18/21 at 02:45 PM

[RippedMan]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 3:17pm

It does. It's a gorgeous song, but doesn't fit the context of the show. Deena isn't suppose to be super talented. She's the Kelly Rowland to the Beyonce. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 3:33pm

Disagree that Deena isn't supposed to be "super-talented." It's true that Deena isn't supposed to be the powerhouse vocalist Effie is. Effie is an old-school belter in the blues/soul tradition, while Deena's voice is silky and smooth and new: lighter, but pleasing, and a bigger hit with the public. Do agree that the arc is one of appealing to assumptions about what the white audience will prefer, and thus the colorism is intrinsic to the storyline and needs to be considered when it comes to casting.

[ucjrdude902]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 3:35pm

I don't think the "Listen" drama/rumor is true. Wasn't it stated well before that each of the girls would get a new song? And did?

Also, while I do think the colorism adds to it wasn't the main issue that Effie wasn't a thin as Deena? 

[wiggum2]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 4:52pm

ucjrdude902 said: "I don't think the "Listen" drama/rumor is true. Wasn't it stated well before that each of the girls would get a new song? And did?

Also, while I do think the colorism adds to it wasn't the main issue that Effie wasn't a thin as Deena?"

the only time that Effie's weight gets mentioned is in It's All Over and we learn that Effie was pregnant... Effie's weight was the topic of this awesome thread

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?boardname=bway&thread=854590 

[wiggum2]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 4:52pm

ucjrdude902 said: "I don't think the "Listen" drama/rumor is true. Wasn't it stated well before that each of the girls would get a new song? And did?

Also, while I do think the colorism adds to it wasn't the main issue that Effie wasn't a thin as Deena?"

the only time that Effie's weight gets mentioned is in It's All Over and we learn that Effie was pregnant... Effie's weight was the topic of this awesome thread

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?boardname=bway&thread=854590 

[HenryTDobson]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 5:11pm

RippedMan said: "It does. It's a gorgeous song, but doesn't fit the context of the show. Deena isn't suppose to be super talented. She's the Kelly Rowland to the Beyonce."

Are you implying that Kelly Rowland isn't talented? Because that's wrong. 

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 6:12pm

The better comparison is that Deena is the Diana Ross to Effie's Florence Ballard. (Clearly some of y'all need a Motown history class...)

[viagalactica6]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 6:55pm

g.d.e.l.g.i. said: "I wonder if she's referring to Jennifer Holliday's sore ass over not being involved; she wasn't offered a cameo, took it as a snub (especially after Loretta Devine got in), and so she put the movie on blast in the media for a while, until the BET Awards booked her to duet on the big number with Jennifer Hudson and suddenly everything was cool."

The main reason that Loretta Devine was the only member of the original cast of DREAMGIRLS in the film is because Bennett was about to abandon the workshop  while still in rehearsals when Jennifer walked out for the second time because she felt her role as Effie was too small. It was Loretta who talked Michael into giving Holliday whatever she wanted (which ended up being another song in Act II ("I Am Changing" and continuing with the show. That is also why Loretta was Bennett's date at the Tony Awards the year it was nominated. Producer Bill Condon paid homage to Loretta Devine by including her in the film.

 

[darreyl102]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 8:05pm

viagalactica6 said: "g.d.e.l.g.i. said: "I wonder if she's referring to Jennifer Holliday's sore ass over not being involved; she wasn't offered a cameo, took it as a snub (especially after Loretta Devine got in), and so she put the movie on blast in the media for a while, until the BET Awards booked her to duet on the big number with Jennifer Hudson and suddenly everything was cool."

The main reason that Loretta Devine was the only member of the original cast of DREAMGIRLS in the film is because Bennett was about to abandon the workshop while still in rehearsals when Jennifer walked out for the second time because she felt her role as Effie was too small. It was Loretta who talked Michael into giving Holliday whatever she wanted (which ended up being another song in Act II ("I Am Changing" and continuing with the show. That is also why Loretta was Bennett's date at the Tony Awards the year it was nominated. Producer Bill Condon paid homage to Loretta Devine by including her in the film.

"

I'd also wager that Loretta has the most extensive TV / film credits, and most recognizable to modern audiences, in comparison to the other original dreams. Which was probably Another factor for her being included in the film.

Updated On: 6/18/21 at 08:05 PM

[morosco]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 8:29pm

the only time that Effie's weight gets mentioned is in It's All Over and we learn that Effie was pregnant...

Well there's also Heavy, Heavy. The lyrics sung by Deena could be seen as a passive-aggressive way for the group to insult Effie. It does mirror what is going on in their lives.

Heavy, Heavy You got so heavy baby
Heavy, Heavy You got so heavy on me

You used to be so light and free
You used to smile just looking at me
Now all you give is jealous hate
Come on baby better lose some weight

Updated On: 6/18/21 at 08:29 PM

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/18/21 at 10:34pm

g.d.e.l.g.i. said: "The better comparison is that Deena is the Diana Ross to Effie's Florence Ballard. (Clearly some of y'all need a Motown history class...)"

Who says we didn't know that already? :)

I think we're discussing what's occurring in the world within the show, and that's why the real issues of the Supremes hasn't come up. In real life, the Supremes had no traction before Ross replaced Ballard (because until then, they had no unique sound of their own, and they came across as a second tier Martha and the Vandellas), whereas the Dreams are already making a name for themselves prior to the Deena/Effie switch.

Updated On: 6/18/21 at 10:34 PM

[silent]

Posted: 6/20/21 at 12:37am

Sheryl Lee Ralph has discussed this before. She said she knew Hollywood would go with a light-skinned girl cause that’s what they do. But Miss Ross is one of the few brown skinned girls who became a pop star and little girls need to see that. And I agree with her!

[seaweedjstubbs]

Posted: 6/20/21 at 1:30pm

^You’re acting like they cast some random girl who just happened to be light skinned…….it was friggin Beyoncé. One of the biggest stars of our time. OF COURSE they were going to cast her. And I agree, the differences in skin color between Effie and Deena added another layer to their conflict.

I found a lot of the “drama” that the original cast had about the movie to be unwarranted and just kinda bitter.