Time For A Gypsy Revival- Page 3

[David10086]

Posted: 9/7/20 at 1:12am

Rosie O’ Donnell. And Leah Michele as Miss Gypsy Rose Lee!

Just as soon as their Funny Girl revival is finished next year.

[joevitus]

Posted: 9/7/20 at 2:32am

IronMan said: "joevitus said: "I'll never understand why Andrea McArdle has never been cast in a revival."

Because Andrea still has a wonderful voice, but she has never had strong acting chops. She couldn't pull it off."

Sadly this might be right. 

[ChgoTheatreGuy]

Posted: 9/7/20 at 3:43pm

Rosie should play Mazeppa and finally get that overacting Tony she's been wanting!...

[gypsy101]

Posted: 9/7/20 at 3:55pm

BroadwayNYC2 said: "Had a dream Jane Krakowski headlined a revival and now I can’t get it out of my head "

Jane or Kristin could be very interesting in the role, a more youthful sexy take on it while still being age appropriate

[Jarethan]

Posted: 9/7/20 at 8:02pm

I think we are only going to see a revival when there is a really big box office attraction who desperately wants to do it.     IMO Gypsy has perhaps been overexposed; and I think many people went to see the revivals specifically to see Angela Lansbury, Tyne Daly (at least after her reviews), Bernadette Peters and Patti Lupone.  Pretty big names and I am pretty sure that at least two of those productions lost money.

Gypsy is one of my favorite musicals, but after seeing Lansbury in the role 5 times, and Tyne Daly and BP twice (I unfortunately missed Patti Lupone because I was 'all-Gypsy'd-out' at the time (and I regret that)), the bar has been set perhaps too high for me vis-a-vis future productions.  Based on seeing some touring productions with solid performances from the Roses, I know that a solid Rose is not enough.  

So, for a new Gypsy production to open on Broadway (which would be the fourth revival since 1975), it has to have a huge star or someone who is so spectacular in the role that she sells tickets after the reviews come out (and even in that case, she has to be very well known coming into the show, sorta like Daly was).

I could see Sutton Foster in the role and I am convinced that Audra can do anything on stage, to mention.  I still do not think either would guarantee that sustainable audiences (enough to return the investment) would flock unless the revival was still years away, enough time to minimize the 'again already' reaction that i think the Lupone production faced (despite the fact that, based on its reviews and awards, it might have been the best of the four revivals).

I am sure this will be a minority opinion, but I really don't think we need another Gypsy revival at this time.

 

[Lanie J]

Posted: 9/7/20 at 8:26pm

I do think that it's not time yet. I think we should wait about ten more years. That way, it will have been over twenty years since the show was on Broadway, and it would have a better shot at turning a profit. I think the best way to get a good Rose in the show (ideally Audra) would be to stunt-cast Louise. If a revival were to happen now, I think that Ariana Grande would actually do quite well with that role, and she's been on Broadway before, so it's not like she doesn't have a professional theatre background. Get a famous Louise to draw in audiences and then you can get an amazing Rose without worrying about her to sell tickets.

The same could go for casting a famous person as Herbie. Worry about the box office draw in every role except Rose.

It's a shame that Glenn Close is too old now. I think she would have had the acting chops necessary. She's built her whole career playing women of a similar energy to Rose, hasn't she?

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 9/8/20 at 3:55am

Like it or not and dare I say it Stephen Sondheim is great but niche and needs big name for it to fly.

Looking at the past 4 Broadway productions, they all have something in common and that is they all played a large theatre (Shubert, Broadway, Winter Garden, Marquis, Imperial & St James) this may have affected the length of its run. When Imelda Staunton recently performed Rose in the West End it wasn't it a large theatre, but in a 1000 seat house and the production was all the better for it, it made the show more intimate and it worked. So would suggest going in one of the Broadway Playhouses, such as the Jocobs or Barrymore etc.

I would also have the artist portraying Rose just do it for 3 months, then another 'name' taking the role over, so what I am trying to say someone like Audra McDonald kick it off then someone like Sutton Foster, Kelli O'Hara etc take the role over, then when a new actress takes the role over it gets re-reviewed by the New York Times, you can get Patti Lupone and Bernadette Peters reprise their roles for 3 months. However would a known actress take over a role, if they cannot win a Tony?

[Jarethan]

Posted: 9/8/20 at 12:24pm

Phantom of London said: "Like it or not and dare I say it Stephen Sondheim is great but niche and needs big name for it to fly.

Looking at the past 4 Broadway productions, they all have something in common and that is they all played a large theatre (Shubert, Broadway, Winter Garden, Marquis, Imperial & St James) this may have affected the length of its run. When Imelda Staunton recently performed Rose in the West End it wasn't it a large theatre, but in a 1000 seat house and the production was all the better for it, it made the show more intimate and it worked. So would suggest going in one of the Broadway Playhouses, such as the Jocobs or Barrymore etc.

I would also have the artist portraying Rose just do it for 3 months, then another 'name' taking the role over, so what I am trying to say someone like Audra McDonald kick it off then someone like Sutton Foster, Kelli O'Hara etc take the role over, then when a new actress takes the role over it gets re-reviewed by the New York Times, you can get Patti Lupone and Bernadette Peters reprise their roles for 3 months. However would a known actress take over a role, if they cannot win a Tony?"

 

I have always been under the impression that it is dramatically cheaper to open a show in London than in NY.  I do not know if 'dramatically' still  applies, as it did in the past, but I do know that it is still a lot cheaper.  Shows are also cheaper to run in London.  So they have a lower upfront investment and a lower operating nut.  That means that they can return their investment sooner.  So, I really don't think the analogy works.  

The other issue with a much revived show opening in a smaller theatre: premium pricing.  Some shows that have opened in smaller theatres, e.g., BOM, DEH come to mind immediately, have been very expensive to see (because they could be) and had a lot of premium seats; this 'deadly combination for ticket purchasers' allowed them to achieve grosses one would typically associate with a bigger theatre.  I just don't see another revival of Gypsy commanding those types of prices, which makes it almost impossible to return its investment.

Finally, I agree with your last point.  I'd add one...how many famous people are going to be willing to take an iconic role with such a low bar for critical failure.  And constant comparison to predecessors.  I don't see it, and I am not sure how many people are up to the challenges of Rose, are right for it, and would sell tickets.  (I have to say that I think Kelli O'Hara would be terrible as Rose).

There have been shows that have relied on replacement stars in the past; however, in most cases, continued success was rare. Even with the original production of Hello Dolly, I believe that --  were it not specifically for Pearl Bailey -- HD would have have had a much shorter run.  Martha Raye, her predecessor, died at the box office, as did Phyllis Diller, her successor. 

So, best to wait at least another 7 - 10 years to me.

[bear88]

Posted: 9/9/20 at 4:21am

This show has become something like Hello, Dolly or The Music Man. It will sell with a big enough star as Rose, as long as that actor is in it. Hello, Dolly had enough goodwill and good reviews to do OK with Bernadette Peters, but it hadn't been revived a million times the way Gypsy has been.

At best, a Gypsy revival makes a modest profit.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 9/9/20 at 6:43am

Allison Janney
Jennifer Lopez
Queen Latifah
Toni Collette
Idina Menzel

[Jarethan]

Posted: 9/9/20 at 10:53am

To Bear88: The Lansbury production only made money from touring. I’d did great in its first 10 weeks, but did badly in the extension, I assume because they extended too late. I remember reading that the Daly one made a very small profit, don’t know about the BP one, and the Lupone lost money, partially because of the recession, partially because it was too soon.

To Henrik: QL and J.Lo are so off the wall they might work at the box office (previously I chartered audience). IMO Allison Janney and Toni Colette would not sell tickets. Menzel would probably sell well for while, but long enough to return the investment???

Toni Collette must have been incredible in The Wild Party, given the way her name comes up so frequently to lead big musicals. Having never seen her in one, I am always surprised. Did you see The Wild Party? Is that the reason you suggested her. I know she is an excellent actress who takes chances, but never having seen her sing, I can’t visualize it.

[binau]

Posted: 9/9/20 at 11:48am

I believe Bernadette's Gypsy lost about half of the $8 million investment according to the NYtimes. 

[wiggum2]

Posted: 9/9/20 at 5:48pm

Jarethan said: "To Bear88: The Lansbury production only made money from touring. I’d did great in its first 10 weeks, but did badly in the extension, I assume because they extended too late. I remember reading that the Daly one made a very small profit, don’t know about the BP one, and the Lupone lost money, partially because of the recession, partially because it was too soon.

To Henrik: QL and J.Lo are so off the wall they might work at the box office (previously I chartered audience). IMO Allison Janney and Toni Colette would not sell tickets. Menzel would probably sell well for while, but long enough to return the investment???

Toni Collette must have been incredible in The Wild Party, given the way her name comes up so frequently to lead big musicals. Having never seen her in one, I am always surprised. Did you see The Wild Party? Is that the reason you suggested her. I know she is an excellent actress who takes chances, but never having seen her sing, I can’t visualize it."

I do like Toni in the Wild Party tony performance!

Also I think I read that the Tyne version would have made a profit but didn’t it change theatres and then didn’t last too long to make back the moving expenses? It’s interesting to me that the Tyne production is the only one to have a replacement Rose

[Jarethan]

Posted: 9/9/20 at 6:08pm

wiggum2 said: "Jarethan said: "To Bear88: The Lansbury production only made money from touring. I’d did great in its first 10 weeks, but did badly in the extension, I assume because they extended too late. I remember reading that the Daly one made a very small profit, don’t know about the BP one, and the Lupone lost money, partially because of the recession, partially because it was too soon.

To Henrik: QL and J.Lo are so off the wall they might work at the box office (previously I chartered audience). IMO Allison Janney and Toni Colette would not sell tickets. Menzel would probably sell well for while, but long enough to return the investment???

Toni Collette must have been incredible in The Wild Party, given the way her name comes up so frequently to lead big musicals. Having never seen her in one, I am always surprised. Did you see The Wild Party? Is that the reason you suggested her. I know she is an excellent actress who takes chances, but never having seen her sing, I can’t visualize it."

I do like Toni in the Wild Party tony performance!

Also I think I read that the Tyne version would have made a profit but didn’t it change theatres and then didn’t last too long to make back the moving expenses? It’s interesting to me that the Tyne production is the only one to have a replacement Rose
"

So, between your comments and Qolbinau's, we have learned that three of the four productions lost money and the fourth (Lansbury) only made a little bit of money because of touring.  That production only ran 15 weeks on Broadway, back in the days when revival were few and far between. so it NEVER could have broken even from that.

Makes it pretty hard to justify a revival anytime soon, with a big '...unless', which I can not conceive at present.

[binau]

Posted: 9/10/20 at 6:22am

Gypsy seems to be one of those shows that is well known, respected - even adored - by insider theatre circles but not really known to the wider public. I think we overestimate its appeal sometimes. I mean, the 2003 revival had Bernadette and Sam Mendes and still couldn’t make a profit - and the LuPone version struggled even more. I agree that this show is never going to go anywhere. They would need a massive name. Bigger than Sutton Foster, and maybe even bigger than Audra.

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 9/10/20 at 11:28am

The only way I see another production happening is if it was made expecting to lose a profit and is a "vanity" project funded by those who "need" to see a specific actress play Rose. There is a lot of passion behind this show (at least within a certain generation) and so long as this show has that, it has a better chance of a revival than most shows.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/10/20 at 12:12pm

We'd have to bring back Fiddler, La Cage and Follies in the same season or it just wouldn't be worth it.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 9/11/20 at 5:07pm

Jarethan said: "To Bear88: The Lansbury production only made money from touring. I’d did great in its first 10 weeks, but did badly in the extension, I assume because they extended too late. I remember reading that the Daly one made a very small profit, don’t know about the BP one, and the Lupone lost money, partially because of the recession, partially because it was too soon.

To Henrik: QL and J.Lo are so off the wall they might work at the box office (previously I chartered audience). IMO Allison Janney and Toni Colette would not sell tickets. Menzel would probably sell well for while, but long enough to return the investment???

Toni Collette must have been incredible in The Wild Party, given the way her name comes up so frequently to lead big musicals. Having never seen her in one, I am always surprised. Did you see The Wild Party? Is that the reason you suggested her. I know she is an excellent actress who takes chances, but never having seen her sing, I can’t visualize it."

Hi, Jarethan

i did see TC in TWP.  She was very good. But I'm generally a fan.

By the way, I have many friends who are borderline obsessed with her talent.  And I've seen her lionized in interviews by colleagues (Brie Larson, Kate Winslet, Sutton Foster),  I share their awe of her. She's an actor's actor playing the long game - in this sense kind of like her Way Way Back costar Sam Rockwell. I have the sense her stock has been rising since her phenomenally courageous performance in Hereditary.  

I would love to see her in a big musical again.

Updated On: 9/11/20 at 05:07 PM

[Jarethan]

Posted: 9/12/20 at 11:55pm

henrikegerman said: "Jarethan said: "To Bear88: The Lansbury production only made money from touring. I’d did great in its first 10 weeks, but did badly in the extension, I assume because they extended too late. I remember reading that the Daly one made a very small profit, don’t know about the BP one, and the Lupone lost money, partially because of the recession, partially because it was too soon.

To Henrik: QL and J.Lo are so off the wall they might work at the box office (previously I chartered audience). IMO Allison Janney and Toni Colette would not sell tickets. Menzel would probably sell well for while, but long enough to return the investment???

Toni Collette must have been incredible in The Wild Party, given the way her name comes up so frequently to lead big musicals. Having never seen her in one, I am always surprised. Did you see The Wild Party? Is that the reason you suggested her. I know she is an excellent actress who takes chances, but never having seen her sing, I can’t visualize it."

Hi, Jarethan

i did see TC in TWP. She was very good. But I'm generally a fan.

By the way, I have manyfriends who are borderline obsessed with her talent. And I've seen her lionized in interviews by colleagues (Brie Larson, Kate Winslet, Sutton Foster), I share their awe of her. She'san actor's actor playing the long game- in this sense kind of like her Way Way Back costar Sam Rockwell. I have the sense her stock has been rising since her phenomenally courageous performance in Hereditary.

I would love to see her in a big musical again."

I have always enjoyed Toni Collette in movies and, more recently, Netflix.  To me, she is a 'risk-taking' actress, who seems fearless.  The reason why I asked the question is because I have read so many posts over the past couple of years on Broadwayworld suggesting her as a serious candidate for many potential revivals of hit shows, including Mame, Hello Dolly, Gypsy, Sweeney Todd, off the top of my head.  

Since I have never heard her sing, I have been surprised by the frequency, simply because leading a big Broadway musical is another beast, and I never would have thought of her.  I guess I think of her as a very talented character actress who has mostly excelled in featured roles, which is of course how someone would have described Angela Lansbury before Mame (a very small group may have thought pre-Anyone Can Whistle, but that was here and gone so quickly that it barely hit the radar of average theatergoers at the time).

[Soaring29]

Posted: 9/13/20 at 2:49am

What crack are you smoking? We've seen more than enough Gypsy revivals.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 9/13/20 at 4:23pm

Soaring29 said: "What crack are you smoking? We've seen more than enough Gypsy revivals."

I got a kick out of this.  Revalidated that a Gypsy revival is less about the show than it is about the Rose, and there is no one out there who I can see getting people excited to see Gypsy yet again, in order to see her as Rose. 

As several have pointed out, as much loved as it is among a subset of the theatergoing public, it has never been a huge hit with audiences.  The original ran about 18 months, the first revival less than 4 months and returned its investment on tour, the second revival a little over a year and broke even, the third revival about a year and a big financial loss (with a huge Broadway star) and the fourth revival for about nine months and a financial loss, again with a huge Broadway star, great reviews, and three acting Tony's.

So, first find a Rose that makes audiences feel they MUST see her as Rose, and then talk about whether another revival is justified (assuming the investors want to see their investment returned).

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 9/15/20 at 1:20pm

I did say earlier an issue is that Gypsy dis play very large musical houses, this is exactly what musicals did then, I stand by my point if it did play a large play house, it would have more chance returning its investment, like A Little Night Music did at the Walter Kerr. Also if the lead actress is refreshed then the midtown crowd would return again.

Getting 1,400 to 1,600 a night to see a Sondheim musical is a massive ask.

[Lisalemann]

Posted: 9/17/20 at 4:48pm

She would probably never do it - but I think Catherine Zeta Jones would make a fantastic Rose.  She is the right age now and has that edge.  And addressing earlier comments - I saw Bernadette Peter's revival - and she was flipping fantastic - at least when I saw her.  I don't know how anyone could forget her...

[east side story]

Posted: 9/17/20 at 7:21pm

Once upon a time, some folks tried to get a Gypsy film adaptation starring Zeta-Jones up and running. Laurents said no and referred to her a “second banana.” This was shortly after her success in Chicago.

[BJR]

Posted: 9/18/20 at 9:52am

CZJ is more of a MAME to me.

Toni Collette is an inspired choice. I just can't imagine she'd make her Bway musical return is so difficult a sing.

I'd put money the next Bway revival would be Sutton or Audra. Probably the only people for whom the money would appear, industry wouldn't roll their eyes and would actually be excited for another. As for ticket sales, who knows?

I think the two-in-a-decade situation over-saturated the industry on the show for a long minute. The public doesn't care, of course; they likely have little idea. But certainly the industry.