CATS Film Adaptation Thread- Page 32

[clever2]

Posted: 12/28/19 at 7:15pm

CarlosAlberto said: "This message may get lost in the shuffle or fall on deaf ears or both but I felt I needed to write this because my spirit is telling me so. I truly want to apologize to clever2 for my rude comments to him on this thread.

I had absolutely no right to be rude to him. I have absolutely no right to be rude to anybody for their differences of opinion.

Everyone has a right to voicetheir opinion or their differences but with respect.

I did not do that...and for that I am truly, truly sorry.


I am extending an olive branch to clever2 and for that matter to anyone else I may have offended with my rudeness on this forum."

Thank you so much for doing this. We’re all here because of our passion and our love for theatre. Sometimes that passion becomes heated and gets the better of us. It’s certainly happened to me! We feel so deeply for all of these shows. In many ways, we are like their protectors. I get it. Thank you, CarlosAlberto. It means a lot you would take the time to say this. 

[Sunny11]

Posted: 12/28/19 at 8:02pm

 

There are not enough facepalms to give the CGI.

I wish that the lead animators had studied Dreamwork’s Puss in boots. That movie did a great job of  making Puss look and move enough like a real cat while also  anthropomorphising him with personality and human like stunt work.  

 

 

 

Updated On: 12/28/19 at 08:02 PM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 12/28/19 at 8:08pm

Not a fan of the show which I find cold and brittle and bizarre.
So it shocked me, esp given these horrible reviews, that I liked the movie.
Liked it far more than the show and also far more than Hooper's Les Mis.

I loved the change of Victoria newly arriving among the Jellicles and her journey as the clawder and the night of the ball is explained to her.  This gave it all an Alice in Wonderland quality which lends the narrative much needed tenderness.  I liked Hayward (Victoria), Robert Fairchild (as her primary guide) and especially Laurie Davidson as Mistoffeles. Unlike Olivia F., I loved that Misto is now a magician with a crisis of confidence who achieves, with encouragement, a major feat of legerdemain.

In the show Victoria's duet with Grizabella is, a I recall, a one off; there is no dynamic between the characters.  Here there is an arc to their relationship and when Dench's Deuteronomy notices it I was as genuinely moved as Dench was.

I loved the silliness of the production and its absurdities.  Wilson eating the humanoid cockroaches and unzipping herself out of her own fur, the general weirdness of the CGI and Moreau cat people madness, Dench looking like Bert Lahr and in her cat coat, Hudson's abject physicalization...  I mean it's a movie of CATS, "bad taste" doesn't really exist as a major obstacle in my mind.

In short Hooper - a director I don't usually like (I HATED the Les Mis film) - with Hall's script and Blankenbuehler's dances has given CATS heart and makes it move.  The editing and staging of the numbers is far superior to that of Les Mis.

Sue me but I found the movie very enjoyable and as good a movie as I can imagine of this very hard to imagine on film show. 

Updated On: 12/28/19 at 08:08 PM

[sherie_worshipper]

Posted: 12/28/19 at 8:11pm

CarlosAlberto, what a brave and beautiful thing to do. Sometimes I remember why I love this community. Thank you.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 12/28/19 at 8:56pm

Jason Derulo, who played Rum Tum Tugger, is defending ''Cats'' and calling the critics a bunch of sourpusses: ''Reviews don't matter, man. … It’s an incredible piece of art done by some of the best people in the world. Tom Hooper’s a class act. I don’t think there’s another director out there that’s more classy than he is. So yeah, I’m just excited for the people to actually see it. Reviewers, what do they know? Have they made a film ever in their life?”

https://411mania.com/movies/jason-derulo-defends-cats-slams-critics-film/

Updated On: 12/28/19 at 08:56 PM

[chernjam]

Posted: 12/28/19 at 9:05pm

Wayman_Wong said: "Jason Derulo, who played Rum Tum Tugger, is defending ''Cats'' and calling the critics a bunch of sourpusses:''Reviews don't matter, man. … It’s an incredible piece of art done by some of the best people in the world. Tom Hooper’s a class act. I don’t think there’s another director out there that’s more classy than he is. So yeah, I’m just excited for the people to actually see it. Reviewers, what do they know? Have they made a film ever in their life?”

https://411mania.com/movies/jason-derulo-defends-cats-slams-critics-film/"

 

I have a lot more respect for Jason Derulo than James Corden... It takes a lot more conviction and loyalty to defend the people you worked your asses off with in creating the film then to do a "I haven't seen it - I hear it's terrible..." 

 

[sabrelady]

Posted: 12/28/19 at 10:46pm

But did no one watch dailies or pieces and say "Tom, this just isn't working" - and did he respond "Well, wait till the CGI comes in" to which the response should have been "No, Tom, it's the acting and shot selection and rough edits"?  Again, I'm completely speculating that Hooper (and others) thought they could fix everything in post production with the CGI.

 

Having spent 10 years on film sets ( in a non creative capacity) I can tell u NObody would be telling the director " sorry but it's just not working". Not if they want to keep their job. OCCasionally a DOP will  discuss a shot as to why it can or cannot be achieved or a PM as to why t the production has to finish at a certain time,  But actually articulate "it's failing"? If u don't share the vision and r not therefore working towards that goal- u can be replaced. I've seen it w DOP's and Hair and Props. Directors can and have been replaced but it takes a lot to do it (IE a Solo Story w Ron Howard being parachuted in to replace Phil Lord and Chris Miller but that means some else's vision is being shot and that rarely translates well). 
 

 

I wonder how many versions of each song were shot and then why he chose what shots he did?  Sometimes rushes r just not available esp on a heavy CGI  movie. Rough edits would not be done until shot selection had been completed. U have to pay for that and if you don't know yet which ones your using it's money that could be spent elsewhere. And yes "we'll fix it in post" is a well know trope and a bad sign. 

did they not shoot test footage?

On such a heavy effects movie they would have to be some shots to show the greenlight guy at the studio that it could be done BUT I'm sure that sequence was both short and cherry picked to showcase what they wanted to achieve. By the time the CGI was added to the shots they'd chosen they were too far gone to pull the trigger. Hence they released a film before it was done and the results  are always half baked.

I found myself thinking of James Cameron ( yes an a-hole but a  knowledgeable technician) who would not shoot Avatar until he knew the effects he wanted were achievable in the industry and he followed that work. I don't think Hooper really thought about that- he just wanted to be the director to do an all CGI musical.  Optimism? Maybe. Ego- certainly. 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/28/19 at 10:58pm

clever2 said: "CarlosAlberto said: "This message may get lost in the shuffle or fall on deaf ears or both but I felt I needed to write this because my spirit is telling me so. I truly want to apologize to clever2 for my rude comments to him on this thread.

I had absolutely no right to be rude to him. I have absolutely no right to be rude to anybody for their differences of opinion.

Everyone has a right to voicetheir opinion or their differences but with respect.

I did not do that...and for that I am truly, truly sorry.


I am extending an olive branch to clever2 and for that matter to anyone else I may have offended with my rudeness on this forum."

Thank you so much for doing this. We’re all here because of our passion and our love for theatre. Sometimes that passion becomes heated and gets the better of us. It’s certainly happened to me! We feel so deeply for all of these shows. In many ways, we are like their protectors. I get it. Thank you, CarlosAlberto. It means a lot you would take the time to say this."

You’re welcome...and again...I am sorry 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/28/19 at 11:01pm

sherie_worshipper said: "CarlosAlberto, what a brave and beautiful thing to do. Sometimes I remember why I love this community. Thank you."

You’re welcome...and thank you

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/28/19 at 11:01pm

sherie_worshipper said: "CarlosAlberto, what a brave and beautiful thing to do. Sometimes I remember why I love this community. Thank you."

You’re welcome...and thank you

[Fosse76]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 2:31am

sabrelady said: "Having spent 10 years on film sets ( in a non creative capacity) I can tell u NObody would be telling the director " sorry but it's just not working". Not if they want to keep their job. "

Studio execs do it all the time. Disney, for one, is notorious for interfering. How often the interference actually affects the filming is an entirely different story.

[MadAboutTheBoy]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 9:12am

CarlosAlberto said: "sherie_worshipper said: "CarlosAlberto, what a brave and beautiful thing to do. Sometimes I remember why I love this community. Thank you."

You’re welcome...and thank you"have

Bravo. Good for you for doing this. 

 

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 9:48am

chernjam said: "Wayman_Wong said: "Jason Derulo, who played Rum Tum Tugger, is defending ''Cats'' and calling the critics a bunch of sourpusses:''Reviews don't matter, man. … It’s an incredible piece of art done by some of the best people in the world. Tom Hooper’s a class act. I don’t think there’s another director out there that’s more classy than he is. So yeah, I’m just excited for the people to actually see it. Reviewers, what do they know? Have they made a film ever in their life?”

https://411mania.com/movies/jason-derulo-defends-cats-slams-critics-film/"



I have a lot more respect for Jason Derulo than James Corden... It takes a lot more conviction and loyalty to defend the people you worked your asses off with in creating the film then to do a "I haven't seen it - I hear it's terrible..."

I liked the movie and admire Derulo's loyalty.

BUT...

Reviewers don't have to make films to understand, value and critique them.  Criticism is an art in its own right.  

And moviemakers can't have it both ways: revel in good reviews and use them to sell their films and discredit bad ones as the product of hacks who can't do what they do.  

 

 

[clever2]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 10:01am

I think some of those reviews were already written and then slightly altered upon seeing the movie. It was nearly the same review over and over again, with their clever little cat insults. I can’t remember the last time I saw something so blissfully slaughtered, practically unanimously, with such unprofessionalism. If you go back and read all the CARRIE reviews, those are perfect examples of critics who were truly baffled. They may have taken issue with the production, but they all found goodness in it and their reports were beautifully crafted dissertations. No one made fun of it. Some may have expressed abject horror, but they were always professional. The CATS reviews were a circus of ridicule and they went out of their ways to mock the film at every turn. These weren’t pans. They were eviscerations. So, a response that declines their relevance is understandable here.

[morosco]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 10:51am

Has Andrew Lloyd Webber made any public statements since the film was released? 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 12:47pm

ALW stands behind the Phantom movie. You'll never see him own up to a bad decision.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 12:51pm

clever2 said: "ggersten said: "- to me, the final shot should be after the loving look, we see the Phantom Chandalier Balloon disappear in a flash of light indicating it has made the journey to the Heaviside Layer and then the film cuts to the end credits."

That is how the film ended both times I saw it."

Just watched it and the balloon goes into a cloud and simply disappears.  You definitely get the jist that it “crossed over.”

 

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 2:22pm

Just read one of the CATS chapters of ALW’s memoir and he says that Eliot had notes that said the cat would be taken to the Heaviside Layer by air balloon.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 2:47pm

henrikegerman said:

"In the show Victoria's duet with Grizabella is, a I recall, a one off; there is no dynamic between the characters. Here there is an arc to their relationship and when Dench's Deuteronomy notices it I was as genuinely moved as Dench was...."

I may be mis-remembering this and do forgive me if I am wrong but if you are referring to the "Memory" duet isn't it the kitten "Jemima" (who is not in the film) who duets with "Grizabella" in the original stage show?
 


 

 

[sabrelady]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 2:49pm

Studio execs do it all the time. Disney, for one, is notorious for interfering. How often the interference actually affects the filming is an entirely different story.

They can try. If it's a less senior director they can definitely have an effect. I remember talking to the sound dept as to why we had repeatedly shot a certain scene(20x!)  w cast running down a marble staircase, what was he looking for that he was not getting? He told me the director was just shooting multiple coverage to give the studio lots of choice in the editing and that this was a sign of young and nervous director.  Hooper wouldn't fall into that category. As i pointed out, a film can be taken away from a director but its unusual.  I think that whatever footage was seen was cherry picked and were told "of course the CGI will change everything" and then the effects were so far  behind that it was either send out what they had(mistake!) or have empty theatres which would stink of failure.

I really can't speak to Disney, I only worked on one film and it was definitely "family friendly" but I remember being told that they were known for a certain"esthetique" and were very protective of their brand. I believe that is why they created Touchstone and bought up other brands to "stretch" away from that esthetique. 

 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 3:42pm

>I may be mis-remembering this and do forgive me if I am wrong but if you are referring to the "Memory" duet isn't it the kitten "Jemima" (who is not in the film) who duets with "Grizabella" in the original stage show?

Jemima was changed to Sillabub in the US productions because of negative connotations attached to the name here and she actually was in the movie! Second from the right! You may have missed her because no Cat without a name behind the CGI mattered and they cut all of the parts of the songs they solo on...

[Enjolras5]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 6:43pm

My first thoughts after seeing the movie were thoughts of worry about Tom Hooper.  He did such a great job with Les Mis and I'm worried how he's going to recover from this!  He probably won't make another musical movie (although I secretly hope he does.  He would benefit so much from focusing less on top-notch names like Russell Crowe and Taylor Swift and instead focus on getting more names like Samantha Barks and such from the theatre world).  I really hope he comes back from this devastating blow of a movie!  (Memory was good, and so was the tap-dancing.  I'll give it that!)

Was some of this hissing and meowing supposed to be slapstick humor?  I was laughing because it was so bad!

The funniest part was when after the movie, a man sitting behind me said "Andrew Lloyd Webber is rolling in his grave."  

Perhaps he doesn't know Andrew Lloyd Webber is still with us?  But the point was made!

[devonian.t]

Posted: 12/30/19 at 10:17am

He got into his grave early just to respond fittingly to this movie

[rosscoe(au)]

Posted: 12/30/19 at 11:29am

I’m shocked that I enjoyed as much as I did. Parts of it where beyond awful ( Rebel Wilson ) but by the time it ended I was smiling.  Maybe going in thinking this will be the worst film of the year ( Sorry Charlie’s Angels you still hold that title ) 

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/30/19 at 11:39am

Yeah, I'm an odd one that I prefer "Cats" to "Les Miserables."