Is "The King and I" Problematic?

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 1:46pm

I've read a few reviews of the tour of Lincoln Centre's The King and I since it landed in Toronto, and I'm trying to understand the reviews of the show. The reviewers seem to like the production, but keep calling the show "problematic",  and I can't help but become a tad frustrated. This isn't a "captive falls in love with capturer". I feel like every "classic" musical is now "problematic". I feel like Rodgers and Hammerstein aren't going to be around outside of " The Sound of Music" pretty soon. Am I crazy to gloss over issues in the piece, or is this another case of "snowflake" people over analyzing everything?

https://www.broadwayworld.com/toronto/article/BWW-Review-THE-KING-AND-I-at-Mirvish-is-a-Charming-Revival-of-a-Problematic-Musical-20180717

https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/stage/review/2018/07/14/revival-of-broadway-classic-the-king-and-i-cant-avoid-its-problematic-past.html

 

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 1:49pm

fashionguru_23 said: "I feel like every "classic" musical is now "problematic". I feel like Rodgers and Hammerstein aren't going to be around outside of " The Sound of Music" pretty soon. Am I crazy to gloss over issues in the piece, or is this another case of "snowflake" people over analyzing everything?"

You are not crazy. Welcome to 2018.

[newintown]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 2:06pm

I believe that what some find problematic about the narrative is the core idea that it takes a single white European to "civilize" a "barbaric" Asian nation, its King, and his wives and children.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 2:07pm

This may help, OP.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-ca-cm-soft-power-20180506-htmlstory.html

[Kad]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 2:07pm

It's well-meaning orientalism, but still orientalism.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 2:10pm

Also, yes, it IS because people are becoming more sensitive — in a good way. A lot of problems in media (yes, even beloved works of art) were brushed aside or even lauded for reasons that people aren't willing to put up with anymore.

[binau]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 2:39pm

The King and I attempts to comment on progressive feminist ideals and rights, so of course it will be considered 'problematic' by certain hypocritical left-wing types who are a conservative wolves in sheep's clothing.

[BwayLB]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 2:48pm

I don't see anything problematic. I embrace the King and I as a classic for it's music and themes of gender issues, political transition and love. The national tour of the show is stunning

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 4:05pm

The Thai people have always found the story and musical problematic.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 4:50pm

ScottyDoesn'tKnow2 said: "The Thai people have always found the story and musical problematic."

So much so that both the film and musical were banned by the government.

The musical has so many historical inaccuracies it makes your head spin. LCT's souvenir book of TKAI addressed many of these inaccuracies. 

[Wildcard]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 5:12pm

There are many historical inaccuracies but this is not a historical account of events. It is the account from somebody's specific point of view… The King and I, not Anna and I. It reflects how the western imperialistic powers viewed the east at that time. It doesn't necessarily reflect actual events nor Eastern sensibilities. Now, if you were to write a show set in modern times and still feature orientalism, then that would be problematic. 

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 5:29pm

Yes.

[haterobics]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 5:33pm

Few classics are wokes of art using modern lenses.

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 5:39pm

It’s not propaganda.

It’s a story of period of time and people of that time.

If we erase these stories we not only aleraces racism homophobia etc etc we erase people.

Look at POSE FX which I love but it’s looking at the 1980s through a modern gender identity politics lens.
And in doing so has completely erased drag queens from the ball culture of the 80s.

[bwayrose7]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 5:46pm

qolbinau said: "The King and I attempts to comment on progressive feminist ideals and rights, so of course it will be considered 'problematic' by certain hypocritical left-wing types who are a conservative wolves in sheep's clothing."

I believe it is progressive from a gender perspective but not from a racial/colonialist or intersectional one. It’s a fascinating study of its time. I do give credit to this revival for not cutting “Western People Funny,” which is still Orientalist but at least attempts to point out that Euro-centric culture is just as “weird” to a traditional Asian culture as vice versa.

[GoblinKing2]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 7:20pm

Back in 2006 my daughter (a little blond white girl) played one of the King’s children in the community theater, which naturally considering the area the talent was drawn from, featured a lot of white people. I loved it. Thought nothing of it. Several years later when I decided to watch the videos of shows she was in to see how much she’d grown up, it didn’t take long after watching local people made up with slanted eyebrows, black dye jobs or wigs, and speaking broken English before I stopped watching, thinking “ oh dear... this is...just not good.” It seems like a show where licensing would take a real hit in modern times.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 7:23pm

It's kind of problematic, but it's still beautiful and gives work to a lot of Asian actors. Sher's direction of the piece helped it feel more modern largely by not allowing the actors to play over the top Asian stereotypes like they had been before. This was especially true of Ruthie Ann Miles' beautiful performance. It felt less like it was a show of the civilized west vs. the barbaric jungle people and more of two very different cultures coming together and learning from one another.

But the story is basically 100% fictitious.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 8:28pm

One thing I wonder if casting directors might do in the future -- have a mixed-race Anna? That would be truer to the real Anna Leonowens, who carefully hid her mixed-race ancestry with a lot of fabrications.

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 7/19/18 at 8:38pm

It is, and it always baffles me that some people have the habit of bashing Miss Saigon while having no problem with The King and I whatsoever.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 3:30am

Let's see. Autocratic king who forces his subjects to kowtow to him, complete subjugation of women, slavery -- sounds pretty barbaric to me. Of course the faults of the English are mostly shoved under the rug, except for their propensity for wearing uncomfortable clothing, which is sent up wonderfully well in the "Western People Funny" number.

I don't have a problem labeling the civilization of Siam to be inferior to that of England at that time. Slavery alone is worth a lot of points in this game.

It's also ironic I think that the Thais showed their displeasure with the characterization of their culture as backward by banning the book and the play, in a salute to freedom of expression.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 3:50am

''Autocratic king who forces his subjects to kowtow to him, complete subjugation of women, slavery''

Couldn't this phrase also apply to numerous characters in the Bible? There's slavery and polygamy in the Good Book, too, and neither practice is condemned in the Bible. For instance, Abraham, Jacob and David had multiple wives. Solomon had 700 wives & 300 concubines. And yet those people are rarely called ''barbaric.'' 

 

Updated On: 7/20/18 at 03:50 AM

[astromiami]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 7:51am

Wayman_Wong said: "''Autocratic king who forces his subjects to kowtow to him, complete subjugation of women, slavery''

Couldn't this phrase also apply to numerous characters in the Bible? There's slavery and polygamy in the Good Book, too, and neither practice is condemned in the Bible. For instance, Abraham, Jacob and David had multiple wives. Solomon had 700 wives & 300 concubines. And yet those people are rarely called ''barbaric.''

"

I think the parts of the country where King and I is not considered problematic are the same parts that not critical of those figures in the Bible.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 8:00am

fashionguru_23 said: "I feel like Rodgers and Hammerstein aren't going to be around outside of " The Sound of Music" pretty soon."

I don't think there's any sign of this at all, given the number of R&H revivals we've had in the 21st century. I think what's far more likely is that our consideration of these shows - along with many other works of art from the past - will include more and more critical discussion of the problems that many people perceive in them, along with enjoyment of their undeniable power and beauty. That sounds like a great thing to me.

[astromiami]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 8:03am

Seeing The King and I as "problematic" is not a recent thing. This has been noted for decades.

Reviving any play from the 50s is difficult since that era view of things is further from how we see things today than prior and later decades. This does not mean that we should not produce them, but we need to be aware that when you get it wrong the audience loses sympathy for the characters.

The LCT revival showed that this work is still viable because it did not ignore the problems but actually dove into them and found solutions.

[newintown]

Posted: 7/20/18 at 8:06am

OlBlueEyes wrote: "Autocratic king who forces his subjects to kowtow to him, complete subjugation of women, slavery..."

And, of course, that's mostly fiction. Mongkut was an educated, peaceful man, who lived as a Buddhist monk until ascending the throne at 47. He abolished forced marriages and the practice of selling wives. He allowed many of his concubines to marry men of their choice. There was slavery in Siam (as there was in much of the world at that time), but it was not based on race, and slaves had the right to purchase their freedom, more akin to the American practice of indentured servitude (which wasn't abolished in the U.S. until after the Civil War). The British didn't abolish slavery in their colonies until 1833, not very much earlier than Mongkut's reign. These facts matter, if we're going to morally judge the people of other eras. Mongkut was no "barbarian," nor were his people. To paint them as such (or to go to the opposite extreme and portray others as "noble savages," as many do) does them no favor.

Like many musicals (I risk repetition here, as I've written this many times), the problem with The King & I is that many audience members, lacking skepticism or the desire to explore a story in depth, often believe that they've received an accurate history lesson after viewing a reductive, sentimental, and inaccurate piece of fiction.