Decline in Quality

[C.Jack]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 10:30pm

What are some shows that have been running for a while that you believe have declined in quality in some way. Some that I can think of are Phantom, Lion King, Chicago, and Hamilton(though the Chicago production is fine).

[haterobics]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 11:31pm

If you're seeing Hamilton enough to track a decline, you're already living a pretty charmed life.

[Rainah]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 11:33pm

I don't think you can say Hamilton is a decline in quality the same way a long running show is. It had a pretty big hiccup with the casting of the new administration, In part because some OBC members left with little-to-no warning. Seth Stewart took over the role of Lafayette/Jefferson because Daveed broke his contract mid-week to fly out to california and do another engagement. Seth Stewart was a mistake, but what else were they going to do? He was the understudy, he knew the part and had the costume. Shouldn't have kept him on so long though.

They're improving with the newer cast changes I hear. Bringing Alysha back was smart, she's a star, and Jordan Fisher was popular and talented, if a little too fond of hamming it up. I've heard good things about Anthony Lee Medina and James Monroe Ingleheart too. I'm hoping it's been just a small hiccup and they're back on track. THey've proved with the Chicago cast and the Angelica Tour that while the OBC was magical, the show can run very well without them.

(The smart thing to do would be to ask Sydney Harcourt back after BVD leaves, similar to Alysha. But as long as Javi's playing Hamilton I don't see it happening)

Updated On: 6/6/17 at 11:33 PM

[C.Jack]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 11:47pm

Yea, I've only seen the original and replacement broadway casts which had a huge contrast. I bet it's better now though with all the names they have

 

Chicago has also declined a lot which is why they have all the celebrities.

[zainmax]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 12:11am

While I am not a fan of James Barbour, I think that Ali Ewoldt was an excellent replacement in Phantom.

[Valentina3]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 12:48am

There are only a handful of really long runnings shows right now, what with Jersey Boys, Rock of Ages, and Mamma Mia closing. I'd like to say - Wicked is amazing. The theater still feels fresh and inviting, and the cast seems to be giving their all every night (I have seen it 4 times in last 2 years and have never had a serious complaint).

[rjm516]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 5:22am

"(The smart thing to do would be to ask Sydney Harcourt back after BVD leaves, similar to Alysha. But as long as Javi's playing Hamilton I don't see it happening)"

 

Why would Javier's playing Hamilton have anything to do with Sydney taking over for BVD? Do they not get along?

Updated On: 6/7/17 at 05:22 AM

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 8:00am

Chicago has done stunt casting for years so I doubt the quality is anything close to when it was new. I saw Lion King again about two years ago and it was fine but not as good as the first time I saw it.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 8:06am

ALL long running shows go through ebbs and tides.  It's inevitable.  Even not so long running shows....once the cast gets comfortable, it often gets a little "lazy".  Sometimes noticeable, other times not.  Often those bouts of laziness are only detectable by repeat audience members or very experienced theater goers.  The typical once a year audience members aren't going to see it.

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 8:20am

Say what you will about Phantom, but a friend of mine saw it a month ago and commented on how fresh the show seemed given how long its been running. Different strokes, I guess.

Also, I guess I didn't realize that Daveed broke his contract? I thought that he left when his contract was up. Saw it in January and Seth was a weak link, but even then, I enjoyed his performance and thought the cast was amazing. Also thought the Chicago cast was amazing a few months later. 

[froote]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 8:24am

I don't know the details about Daveed but he left a week after Lin, Leslie and Phillipa and the announcement was made very suddenly so it always seemed like there was something off there.

[Dave13]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 8:45am

Since the OBC of Hamilton left, I haven't been able to stomach seeing it again. The OBC was just perfect.  

[Rainah]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 9:13am

rjm516 said: "
Why would Javier's playing Hamilton have anything to do with Sydney taking over for BVD? Do they not get along?"

Yeah, rumour was they didn't get along very well. Two people with opposite personalities, though both great people, but it translated into having zero chemistry onstage. Hopefully just a rumour though can confirm about the lack of chemistry. Sydney is an amazing Burr though, and I'd love to see him back in the role. Really awesome grasp of the character and great movement onstage

[Rainah]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 9:16am

froote said: "I don't know the details about Daveed but he left a week after Lin, Leslie and Phillipa and the announcement was made very suddenly so it always seemed like there was something off there."

Daveed left with 2-3 days notice, he got an offer he couldn't refuse and they bought out his contract. Lin, Leslie and Pippa were all in talks to extend but ultimately all ended up moving on, they were in talks for so long it seemed more sudden but everyone knew it was a possibility. They had actors lined up for those three, but Daveed leaving so suddenly left everyone in the lurch and his understudy and standby alternated covering the role until they just gave up and gave it to the understudy permanently (Seth Stewart, who is... not good in the role. Not good at all.)

[LYLS3637]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 9:31am

I know I'm in the minority, but I kinda preferred the replacement cast of HAMILTON-- Lafayette/Jefferson excluded. I thought BVD was much more nuanced and subtle than Leslie Odom-- who sounded unbelievable but definitely hammed it up a little too much for me. I didn't see Javier but Jevon McFerrin surpassed Lin both in vocals and acting. Mandy Gonzalez was absolutely sublime in a role I thought could not be touched after Renee. 

Daveed Diggs aside-- to say Hamilton "declined" after the OBC left is a bit laughable. 

[adamgreer]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 9:37am

Hal Prince famously checks in on Phantom several times a year and after his visit always holds extensive notes sessions with the cast.  He doesn't allow the show to get stale. 

[characterism]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 11:38am

I saw Phantom ~2 years ago with James Barbour and thought the show was as amazing as ever. One could say that the audience has seen a "decline in quality" though.  Lots of people with zero theatre etiquette and ushers seating people well into "Think of Me"... I know it's essentially just a tourist staple now, but yeesh.

[oncemorewithfeeling2]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 11:47am

Whether it means we'll see big changes, the Broadway company of Hamilton now has a resident choreographer and resident director, in addition to the supervising choreographer and director. I don't recall when they were added, but those positions are put in place to make sure things don't get sloppy and tired. I've seen changes in Hamilton, but I don't consider them declines in quality, per se. We also have to remember that ensemble members in Hamilton have a history of being young and often on their first Broadway contract. In a perfect world, that wouldn't matter,but we have to be realistic.

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 11:50am

"Seth Stewart took over the role of Lafayette/Jefferson because Daveed broke his contract mid-week to fly out to california and do another engagement"

This is NOT what happened. Daveed did not "break" his contract.

This board is declining in quality, if anything.

[thebookofwhizzer]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 11:56am

LYLS3637 said: "I know I'm in the minority, but I kinda preferred the replacement cast of HAMILTON-- Lafayette/Jefferson excluded. I thought BVD was much more nuanced and subtle than Leslie Odom-- who sounded unbelievable but definitely hammed it up a little too much for me. I didn't see Javier but Jevon McFerrin surpassed Lin both in vocals and acting. Mandy Gonzalez was absolutely sublime in a role I thought could not be touched after Renee. 

Daveed Diggs aside-- to say Hamilton "declined" after the OBC left is a bit laughable. 

 

AGREED!! I saw the cast just after Oak left- Saw Jevon as Mulligan/Madison he was interesting, but probably much better as Hamilton. Mandy was AMAZING and so was Lexi and Javier. Alysha was great and so were Jordan and BVD. Not crazy about Seth's Lafayette but I found his Jefferson to be decent. I wasn't paying much attention to the mistakes and quality, just the rush of being there after winning the lottery made everything AMAZING!

 

[10086Sundays]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 12:01pm

I've seen all of those shows, except Lion King, within the last 3 months and didn't find them to be in bad shape.  None of the casts seemed bored, the Phantom cast was particularly good.  The problem was the person who decided to stand up in front of me just as the chandelier fell.  They couldn't have waited 30 seconds to go to the bathroom?!

Some of the Hamilton replacements are better than others and the understudies I've seen are actually better than the regulars.  Jevon McFerrin is amazing as Hamilton.

Updated On: 6/7/17 at 12:01 PM

[greenifyme2]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 12:13pm

I saw Lion King last year and was very disappointed. It felt old.

I saw Book of Mormon 2 years ago and it had a lot of energy and thought the cast was still top-notch. I won lottery tickets about a month ago, and while I still enjoyed it, it felt tired and the cast wasn't as strong. 

Wicked never fails to engross me. I saw that for the 5th time last month and it somehow still felt fresh and engaging! 

[Phillytheatreguy10]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 12:46pm

Of the shows mentioned, Hamilton aside, which I cannot comment on.

Chicago- I feel it's a punching bag on here, I've seen various casts 4 times, matinees and evenings and have yet to be disappointed.  I've only ever seen one Velma other then Amra, that was Carly Hughes.  As long as Amra has been in, she has never walked through it- not my fave, but I'm being honest. The score is a great score, Kander and Ebb still translates. Fosse is extremely difficult to pull off and easily detectable if one person is lazy, that cast is not.

Phantom- I saw it last when Sierra and Norm were together in it and it felt so much fresher then my previous visits.

Wicked- I have only been disappointed once, a particular understudy was on for Glinda and she was just not as big as the part, and this was a Saturday night, the cast felt really low energy. I've seen it since and it was better- even with a new Glinda understudy- Tess Soltau was great.

Mormon- I saw with Creel twice years ago and it was rock solid.

I have not seen Lion King in years, but I'm disappointed to hear it's declined in quality.

[dcphillygirl]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 1:14pm

I saw Ham OBC (like a week after it opened on broadway so very OBC), Chicago, and then again around Christmas.  Andrew Chapelle played Burr and it was...............not good.  It did kind of ruin it for me.

[castlestreet]

Posted: 6/7/17 at 1:40pm

My wife and I on our honeymoon were seated right at the break in the Orchestra.  The production team running the show were to the left side of us by the house entrance taking notes the entire time.  I know for a fact that the show is kept very fresh, which partially accounts for it's long run.  

Combined with it's tourist attraction and the fact that the show has traveled the world so extensively and is familiar, I don't see it closing up shop anytime soon.