Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
DAME
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/15/04
#1Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 8:17pm
Just wondering.
yikes
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Updated On: 6/25/13 at 08:17 PM
DAME
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/15/04
#2Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 8:21pm
Leave Marc Shaiman alone!
"The score by the Hairspray combo of Scott Wittman and Marc Shaiman is tuneful and wholly unmemorable (the only song you come out humming is "Pure Imagination" the captivating Newley/Bricusse number borrowed from the 1971 film)...Very engaging but rarely elating, this show is a skillful confection that doesn't quite produce the inspired sugar-rush of magic that's required."
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Updated On: 6/25/13 at 08:21 PM
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#2Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 8:37pm
Well, considering Matilda got excellent reviews, that doesn't seem likely at all.
Maybe it's just not that good.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#3Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 8:37pmCould this hurt its chances of transfering?
PlayItAgain
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/8/11
#4Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 8:43pmthe idea of doing this with an original score was stupid. You either use all the songs from the movie or you don't, once you use Pure Imagination and nothing else critically your going to be screwed and endlessly compared to the movie.
Fosse76
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/21/05
#5Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 8:50pmExactly. Even Cameron Macintosh knew he couldn't produce a stage version of Mary Poppins without the Disney score. The creative forces here should have known better.
broadway guy
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/5/11
#6Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 8:55pmI'm not really surprised, taking out the movie songs was a really bad idea. The set does look amazing though. Maybe this Is London's version of America's Spiderman? LOL
theaternut
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/4/03
#7Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 8:58pm
"Well, considering Matilda got excellent reviews, that doesn't seem likely at all. "
Actually the Tony snub is perceived as a slap in the face. And despite of what the critics say there is a large group of people that have not liked it and have been very vocal.
#8Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 9:46pm
As punishment to the Tony voters who didn't vote Matilda for Best Score they should force them to listen to the Kinky Boots cast recording...awful. But as far as the topic at hand, I really doubt it..
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
Updated On: 6/25/13 at 09:46 PM
#9Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 9:54pm
"Actually the Tony snub is perceived as a slap in the face"
For the last time - IT WASN'T SNUBBED. IT JUST DIDN'T WIN! They gave those 2 show a week girls a special Tony award, for Christ's sake!
#10Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 9:55pm
As others have said here - I think it is a MAJOR mistake to not use the entire score from the film.
All of the songs are great, not just "Pure Imagination" .... I understand the need to perhaps supplement it with new material, but people (especially here) will want to see it with the songs from the film.
Those are wonderful songs. No reason to replace them with a C-list writer like Shaiman.
#11Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 10:06pmThe buzz since previews started has been really lukewarm, so I'm not so surprised.
"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008
RippedMan
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/14/05
#12Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 10:55pmI think, as an audience member, I'd expect this show to be visually arresting and just a delight, and it doesn't seem to have any "magic." I'd love to see pics of the "factory" if they are available.
#13Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 11:13pmNo.
#14Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/25/13 at 11:22pm
Uh, I'm hardly seeing a wave of pans here. In fact, they seem pretty positive, for the most part.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Updated On: 6/25/13 at 11:22 PM
Owen22
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/24/11
#15Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/26/13 at 12:59am
I can't quite believe the score is a problem. Shaiman and Whitman wrote some great songs for "Smash" very, very quickly, with great melodies and fairly witty lyrics.
Though a different sound, I would bet Wonka has a more memorable score than "Matilda" (which I did love, but like "Billy Elliott" I never thought the score lived up to the rest of the production).
I have been a slow convert to the pair. As much as I thought "Hairspray"'s "You Can't Stop the Beat" to be the greatest Broadway finale in twenty years, I found half of the score to be down right bad. But they improved a heck of a lot with "Catch Me" (a more consistent score) and pretty much won me over with the "Bombshell" songs. One of the aspects I've been looking forward to most in "Wonka" is the score.
AEA AGMA SM
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/13/09
#16Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/26/13 at 1:31am
"Snubbed" seems to becoming the new most over-used word on the internet. It seems like we are trying to change the definition of "snubbed" from "ignored" to "lost."
JohnyBroadway
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/10/12
#17Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/26/13 at 1:37amThe show simply isn't the show without Candy man,Cheer Up Charlie, Golden Ticket,and I want it now. could you imagine what Mary Poppins would've been like if they had only retained spoon full of sugar?
#18Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/26/13 at 2:25amI have to agree with the reviews, they haven't written a good score unfortunately, and I really enjoy the other shaiman and Whitman scores, they tried being too clever ala Matilda, but they aren't Tim Minchin so they were never going to pull it off! And the sets were good, but they aren't worth the entry fee for the spectacle alone like Spider-Man, so unfortunately I can't see this being super successful, it won't flop, but should run a couple of years!
kp
Understudy Joined: 8/14/04
#19Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/26/13 at 3:26am
Dame - you obviously want to see some xenophobic conspiracy, which just isn't there. You defend Shaiman without, I imagine, having heard the score? I love their work on Hairspray but the truth is the critics are pretty spot on. The score is not very good. Not awful but not very good . I think the reviews sum up the show quite well in most of what they say.
By the way, the critical response to the score is in fact retribution for the NY critical drubbing for the Billy Elliot score. They have long memories.
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#20Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/26/13 at 5:46am
Well, that's a silly thing to say. In one paragraph, you claim the score is, indeed, mediocre. In the next, you claim the reviews are retribution for the BE score.
If the score IS mediocre, there is no retribution.
I still think the whole topic is ridiculous. Matilda was beautifully critiqued here and is selling like hotcakes. I really can't imagine the Brits (or any grown up) are so upset that they didn't win a Tony for Best Musical that they would just "pick on" a new musical that was written my Americans.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#21Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/26/13 at 6:24am
I have heard the score. It's instantly forgettable. These are sound-alike pastiche songs that have no solid melodies, no memorable hooks. You can tap your toes to them, because they seem like they should be better than they are. But these are tunes with no direction. They never "land" on the ear. They just meander, then leave.
It's a missed opportunity for one of my favorite childhood stories. Basically, these reviews are saying Douglas Hodge is great, the production values are great, and they have a score that is under par. (Some critics were nastier than that.)
It becomes really obvious when, late in the show, you get to Pure Imagination, and it's like an oasis in the desert. A solidly constructed song and simple yet soaring melody.
Makes all the difference in the world.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
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#22Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/26/13 at 7:12am
Talk about trying to make something out of nothing. The reviews have been mainly 4 star, only the Daily Mail is negative. And on word of mouth the score has received the most criticism.
Daily Telegraph***
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-reviews/10141934/Charlie-and-the-Chocolate-Factory-Theatre-Royal-review.html?placement=mid1
The Guardian****
http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2013/jun/25/charlie-and-the-chocolate-factory-review
The Independent****
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/theatre-dance/reviews/first-night-sam-mendes-charlie-and-the-chocolate-factory-is-very-engaging-but-rarely-elating-8673480.html
Whats On Stage****
http://www.whatsonstage.com/london-theatre/reviews/06-2013/charlie-and-the-chocolate-factory_31107.html
Daily Express****
http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/theatre/410365/Theatre-review-Charlie-And-The-Chocolate-Factory
New EPK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nWlNFLYr0IQ
#23Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/26/13 at 8:15am
dramamama611 - you do understand my comment about Billy Elliot retribution was ironic made in the hope of highlighting the ridiculous nature of the original post? I thought it was pretty obviously so given my comments in the rest of the post.
#24Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?
Posted: 6/26/13 at 8:18am
Princeton I was just gonna say the same thing. The show had a good night with the critics, and with the pacing problems of this show and a rather unmemorable score they should be very happy with the reviews.
So no, no UK vs US thing which seems to have kept certain members of this board on overdrive since the Tonys, I don't really see why it matters what nationality the team behind any new musical are, I would rather it just be a great show.
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