The inherent racism of Asian theatre companies?

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 10:20am

I wanted to discuss a major issue that seems to happen at many of the theatre companies in Asian countries. When they produce broadway shows the casts are almost always homogeneous. Even shows that are described as diverse, they don’t cast black actors in historically black roles. For instance, when a theatre company in Japan put on a production of Hairspray they only cast one black actress for the role of Motormouth. Seaweed was played by a light skinned man. Similarly, The Seoul and Tokyo productions of Kinky Boots had light skinned actors as Lola. There plenty more examples of this and I think it’s something that needs to be addressed. I understand the argument that many Asian countries are vastly homogeneous and it’s hard to find black actors living there. Although, these same theatre companies often times hire white American actors for various shows and I’m curious why they can’t also hire BIPOC American actors when they need to. I think the people who license out these shows to Asian theatre producers need to be more critical and make sure they don’t hand out licenses unless the companies can promise to cast actors of color.

Updated On: 6/19/20 at 10:20 AM

[lachri5]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 11:26am

This is a genuine question, not rhetorical at all: what should an Asian theatre company do, with limited non-Asian actors to choose from, who can speak local language well enough that audience can understand, and can sing and dance well enough for the role?

1) hire people from overseas? where you still might not be able to find people with good language ability. 2) give people language lessons in hopes of being able to use them in... 6 months? 3) dual language production where non-Asian actors speak English with subtitle support and local actors speak local language 4) stop producing shows with any non-Asian roles until they have actors with the right ethnic background available?

I can see option 123 adding a lot to the budget, and I feel most will end up choosing 4. I don't know, maybe that's how it should be, don't introduce non-Asian culture until you can do it right. Thoughts?

[itsjustmejonhotmailcom]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 11:34am

in Japan, 98% of the population is of Japanese descent. I usually say this is a bulls*t excuse, but I think in many Asian markets it is tough to find a diverse cast. I don't think anybody should do Hairspray without respecting that race is an integral part of the storytelling. But I'm not sure that I have a problem with a Lola who isn't black in Japan. I don't believe that character is written to be a specific ethnicity, it's just that the movie and original Broadway actor was black. Kind of falls into Heath Saunder's recent article talking about the differences between black bodies and black lives.

[lachri5]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 11:36am

That example of Hairspray at least has a black actor. You should look at the 1988 Japanese production of Golden Boy, which is released on VHS. Some clips on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRiwSaLXZvQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw2RSQUXXDo 

Edited to remove the embedded black face image. You can see it here if you want: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41laW-1G97L._AC_.jpg

Updated On: 6/19/20 at 11:36 AM

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 12:03pm

It's a completely different situation. They have a different history. They have different marginalized communities. The don't have the same history of Blackface and ethinc buffoonery. Certainly Asian countries have systemic oppression and racism, but it doesn't look like what we have and has a different historical context. You're trying to ascribe American racial issues to cultures that have entirely different histories. 

Now. All that said, if creators won't let characters written as Black Americans be played by an actor who isn't a Black American... that's their call and I respect that decision whole heartedly... I may even think that's the right decision.  But. I think the conversation you're trying to start is really misguided. 

[imeldasturn]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 12:14pm

The case of Lola in Kinky Boots is quite interesting. In the movie and on Broadway/West End the character has always been played by a black actor, and indeed some of the lyrics refer to their blackness. But Lola has also been consistently played by local white/Asian/Latino actors in Sweden, Korea, and Argentina. These productions were all in translation, so the couple of quick mentions to Lola's blackness can be easily omitted.

That said, Lola's race doesn't really play any role in the show, and the fact that the role has been consistently played by non-black actors in international productions mean that the authors must be fine with it. Interestingly enough the Italian production of Kinky Boots had a black Lola. Luckily the creators of Hairspray finally put their foot down, so no more bizarre and racist casting in that. 

However, the American theater should be focusing on its own racism before "exporting democracy" in other countries' playhouses.

Updated On: 6/19/20 at 12:14 PM

[aimeric]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 12:43pm

You know, I don't comment much on here, but this thread is shortsighted, even for this board.  To put it briefly, KJ has it right from a social perspective.  But I should also add, from a practical perspective, it's not even a matter of there being almost no black people in Japan, it's a matter of there being almost no black people in Japan who 1.) can speak Japanese fluently enough to perform a translated musical, and 2.) have the skill set necessary to perform a Broadway musical, period.  Have we forgotten that Broadway singing/acting/dancing is not something everyone can do??  I should also add that musicals in Japan are performed for a limited period of time, not as an open-ended run.  So you want to find these very specific people to perform something for a couple weeks or a month?  Good look finding a cast that fits your standards!

Should Japanese theatre companies stay away from Hairspray?  Personally, I tend to think they should (although it's really none of my business if they do or don't).  But why should they confine themselves to shows featuring Asian characters?  How does that make any sense at all, thinking from their POV?  Why can a Japanese person play a Thai person but not a black person?  That makes no sense to the Japanese mindset: a Japanese audience knows very well that they are no more Thai than they are black.  It's all suspension of disbelief.  It's pointless for us to try to artificially overlay an American understanding of race over a uniquely Japanese social situation. 

In brief: I'm okay leaving Japanese stuff for Japanese to worry about.

 

Updated On: 6/19/20 at 12:43 PM

[binau]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 12:52pm

Of course I’m hypocritical because I myself wish and am passionate about saying there should be different social standards in other countries. For example, for gay people in many non-western countries. However, it is funny to think about woke America trying to get involved in these kind of issues and implicitly stand on a moral high ground. My only comment is that the rest of the world does not often subscribe to this and even if there are good intentions or even merit to what is being discussed it is so far away from the culture that it would seem almost comical, like a joke. I can just imagine a Saturday night live parody of a group of woke Americans talking about this while they sit in a Starbucks sipping their Frappuccinos.

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 1:54pm

This is one of the most outrageous posts I've read. I've had friends complaining about Lea Salonga playing Kim in Miss Saigon and Kei Samura in Allegiance because she's neither Vietnamese nor Japanese. Similarly, people can argue against Conrad Ricamora, a Filipino American, playing a Chinese diplomat. It's not okay for you to lump all "Asians" together for the same reason you are criticizing Asian theater companies for. It just reeks hypocrisy to me.

[LarryD2]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 1:59pm

I don't believe that character is written to be a specific ethnicity, it's just that the movie and original Broadway actor was black.

There are specific cultural references in the screenplay and the Broadway script that make it clear Lola is Black.

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 2:17pm

See no need for this topic in a chat room devoted to Broadway musicals. And as we have our own issues with racism and failing to promote actors of various ethnicities, I don't see the point of this thread. Reads like trolling, to me.

[BenjaminNicholas2]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 2:17pm

OP:  How much time have you spent in Asia?

Note: I lived there for many years.  Seoul. Hong Kong. Singapore.  I know of what I speak.

Your cancel-culture post is way misguided.  Stop attempting to create issues within a VERY different population makeup and culture that don't really exist.

Garbage posts like these are why people will quickly get fed up with uber-PCism.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 2:57pm

Dancingthrulife2 said: "This is one of the most outrageous posts I've read. I've had friends complaining about Lea Salonga playing Kim in Miss Saigon and Kei Samurain Allegiance because she's neither Vietnamese nor Japanese. Similarly, people can argue against Conrad Ricamora, a Filipino American,playing a Chinese diplomat. It's not okay for you to lump all "Asians" together for the same reason you are criticizing Asian theater companies for. It just reeks hypocrisy to me."

In no way am I implying I think it’s okay American theatre lumps all Asians together. That is an issue that also needs to be discussed, of course. Right now, though it’s about black lives and what they are going through and I think this is of equal importance. Of course, American theatre has issues regarding racism towards black artists, but so do many other nations and parts of the world. 
 

I understand the complaints about this post, but it is sincere and not meant to be offensive. If we are going to fight racism we shouldn’t focus on racism in one place at one time. We need to fight it everywhere. What’s the point of fighting it if it still finds its way somewhere else. 
 

I also think many of you are missing a key point in my post. There have been numerous times where white actors from overseas were invited to perform in various shows in Tokyo, Seoul, etc... if they can accommodate for white actors, they can surely accommodate BIPOC actors from overseas countries.

 

Thanks to everyone for your insight.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 3:18pm

Dancingthrulife2 said: "This is one of the most outrageous posts I've read. I've had friends complaining about Lea Salonga playing Kim in Miss Saigon and Kei Samurain Allegiance because she's neither Vietnamese nor Japanese. Similarly, people can argue against Conrad Ricamora, a Filipino American,playing a Chinese diplomat. It's not okay for you to lump all "Asians" together for the same reason you are criticizing Asian theater companies for. It just reeks hypocrisy to me."

100% Agree

OP:  How much time have you spent in Asia?

I think you know that answer to that question. 

 

[pmensky]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 3:35pm

My friend, Joe, runs a theatre company in China. He was interviewed by CBS a few years ago and discusses some of these issues. Here’s the link:  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/challenges-of-broadway-breakthrough-in-china/

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 3:59pm

Jorge, the white actors who perform in Japan in that manner aren't generally performing IN Japanese.

I actually have wondered, for productions in Asia, if it's noted in the program when a character is supposed to be black if it's not actually spelled out in the script (but their ethnicity is important).

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 4:11pm

Your cancel-culture post is way misguided.

He's done that in more than one post. For example, for no reason at all, he stated Kat McPhee canceled, which two people stupidly bought into. He gave no explanation, apology nor did he delete it, even though Kat did nothing wrong. He knows it's ridiculous and dangerous but he does it anyways.

[aimeric]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 4:55pm

Call_me_jorge said: "I understand the complaints about this post, but it is sincere and not meant to be offensive. If we are going to fight racism we shouldn’t focus on racism in one place at one time. We need to fight it everywhere. What’s the point of fighting it if it still finds its way somewhere else.


I also think many of you are missing a key point in my post. There have been numerous times where white actors from overseas were invited to perform in various shows in Tokyo, Seoul, etc... if they can accommodate for white actors, they can surely accommodate BIPOC actors from overseas countries.



Thanks to everyone for your insight."

 

Jorge, I believe you're being sincere, but are you really suggesting that America engages in some sort of cultural colonialism?  That doesn't seem like such a good plan...  How can you force another culture to conform to your notions of right or wrong?  Are you okay with the Saudis trying to force America to implement its notions of how to treat women?  Racism in America is America's problem; racism in Japan is Japan's problem; racism in Korea is Korea's problem, etc.

As for your other point, Lizzie is correct, the white actors who perform in Japan are typically performing in very limited engagement situations, and not as a full role in a normal, staged musical performed in the Japanese language.  I can't think of a single exception to that, although I'm happy to be corrected if anyone knows better.  Koreans, on the other hand, are widely employed in Japanese musicals, but again, only if they are completely fluent in Japanese--which is, after all, the baseline for employment in a Japanese musical.  Or is Jorge implying that we should force the Japanese to only perform musicals in our language, too...?

 

Updated On: 6/19/20 at 04:55 PM

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 5:04pm

I think it's fine to go ahead with what you have in a professional production where the the pool of people you have doesn't allow you to have full true to the piece diversity. Just don't do black face. Which in Japan at least has been an issue... in 2015 they did a production of Memphis with one black actor and all the other Black roles were done with black face.

And the recent production of Hairspray with Naomi Watanabe (Which I think may have been delayed due to COVID) had to outwardly condemn the use of Blackface and state that it would not appear in their production.

[aimeric]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 5:29pm

TheatreFan4 said: "I think it's fine to go ahead with what you have in a professional productionwhere the the pool of people you have doesn't allow you to have full true to the piecediversity. Just don't do black face. Which in Japan at least has been an issue... in 2015 they did a production of Memphis with one black actor and all the other Black roles were done with black face.

 

And the recent production of Hairspray with Naomi Watanabe (Which I think may have been delayed due to COVID) had to outwardly condemn the use of Blackface and state that it would not appear in their production."

 

I agree with all this, and I thought it was a good step forward when I saw that Hairspray wasn't using blackface.  Anyone who knows the Japanese entertainment industry knows that's a big step for them......appalling as it may seem to Americans.

 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 6:24pm

Japan just straight up uses Minstrel Show Blackface on occassion...

[Fan123]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 6:30pm

Interesting comments here. I agree that in a place like Japan, US standards with regard to historical racial issues etc probably don't apply. It's something I've also pondered with regard to somewhere like Australia, where I am. Different ethnic demographics to the US (though still diverse) and different race-related history (though still plenty of racism to deal with), but obviously no language barrier, and the bigger companies have the capacity to bring in racially appropriate cast members from overseas if/when it comes to that. I'm not sure exactly where I would draw the line, but 'more stringent adherence to US-style casting than Japan' seems like a pretty safe starting point.

It's also interesting that the musical theatre landscape, and arguably the global conversation about race, are both still fairly US-dominated. As time moves on and more shows originating from elsewhere are performed in places other than their country/culture of origin, these questions will multiply. I mentioned awhile back that a Turandot-inspired musical recently became the first South Korean musical to be be performed in Europe; looking it up (https://www.nova-scena.sk/turandot/?f=events#photogallery), the European cast at least appears to be mostly white, though not entirely. (They don't use 'oriental' style costuming etc.) Maybe that's fine from the South Korean cultural perspective though? I wouldn't know. And maybe embracing works from a diversity of creators and perspectives makes it worthwhile, on balance, to have some 'less than intuitive' casting choices? The few South Korean articles I read, about the initial production announcement, were very positive about a homegrown show getting some attention in Europe.

Genuine question, a little off-topic: do licensing companies provide much leeway in terms of a theatre company obtaining the rights to a show, and then choosing to cancel/refund its rights request if the theatre company finds that it's unable to cast the show appropriately? It has sometimes been said that companies should only obtain the rights to shows when the're confident that they can cast it correctly. However that approach could mean fewer companies thinking beyond their existing 'bubble' of (probably) predominantly white potential cast members and white-centric shows, and reaching out to find and cultivate diverse talent. Is there generally a 'take-backsies' clause for such circumstances?

[Javi]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 10:08pm

In Australia, we regularly have Australian Aboriginals, New Zealander Maoris or even Indians playing African-American roles. Would that be considered problematic?

[Fan123]

Posted: 6/20/20 at 7:05am

From my admittedly white Australian perspective, I would say generally 'no' because such casting involves giving opportunities to diverse performers, while not taking opportunities away from a large pool of African Australian performers (such a cohort does not yet exist in any great numbers, to my knowledge).
BTW, for those interested, here's an article about how the casting of POC roles in 'Beautiful' was approached in Australia:

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/musicals/beautiful-the-carole-king-musical-casts-diverse-local-talent-over-imports-20170921-gylp9v.html