The Case of the Mysterious Disapearing Thread, Part Deux- Page 5

[Public User]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 10:53am

Dave28282 said: "Patti LuPone FANatic said: "The original poster was being kind of two faced: on the one hand, he mentioned her "rapidly aging" and then showering her with praise. It struck me as being hostile and praiseworthy. Not a good combination."

It struck me as just 2 normal facts that anyone can see and an interesting question about what roles she could play in the future. Sometimes talking about facts of life is more interesting than only praise. If anything, a combinationseems balanced to

It was a tacky post meant to harm not help.  And if you know anything about freedom of speech, you know that it can and does have consequences.  

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 11:11am

GeorgeandDot said: "Just thought I pop by and say that under no circumstances should the swastika be protected as free speech since the party for which it represents is responsible for the death of 6 million people as well as nearly 10 million soldiers, civilians, etc. It should be considered a call for violence. People should not be able to openly fly that flag."

This is a conclusion that I'm coming around to.  Before a Nazi/white supremacist murdered a woman with a car this past August, a lot of this was theoretical for me.  In my lifetime, this wasn't really an issue.  But seeing the reality of this?  Look...it's not like the atrocities that happened under the Reich were incidental.  The slaughter of millions wasn't an unfortunate byproduct of other policies.  It was the point.  So...violence is inherent to the symbol.  In Germany, it is illegal to display a swastika.  Can we argue that Germany is not really 'free'?  I don't know.  I know how I would have felt about a banning of such iconography before the murder of Heather Heyer.  But now?  I...just don't know.  

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 11:21am

GeorgeandDot said: "Just thought I pop by and say that under no circumstances should the swastika be protected as free speech since the party for which it represents is responsible for the death of 6 million people as well as nearly 10 million soldiers, civilians, etc. It should be considered a call for violence. People should not be able to openly fly that flag."

Agree 100%. Same goes for the Confederate flag.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 11:27am

^I agree 100%

[MVintheheartland]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 12:14pm

Also agree about the Swastica, and waffling on the Confederate flag (not a southerner, and I know what it stands for). 

[Kad]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 12:45pm

Show me a large population of African-American Southerners who proudly fly the Confederate flag in a show of regional pride, and perhaps I will reconsider lumping it in with the swastika.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 2:21pm

kdogg36 said: "Dave28282 said: "I will never be the one bringing it up."

This is false. You started a threadabout this exact issue on the off-topic board a week or two ago."

A reaction to a case where it happened yes.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 2:26pm

jimmycurry01 said: "This isn't Dave's first screen name here. He was formerly dave19, and that name had to be deserted due to racist comments. He is just that type of person."

This is the most world alienated comment I have read in a while. I specifically kept my name, but made a post to let everyone know I just changed the number because I don't want people to think I'm 19. I deliberately kept the name Dave, because I fight for what's right and I wanted to let people know I'm still the same person, fighting against racism. I'm just that type of person.

Now go back to your fairy tale.

 

Updated On: 9/13/17 at 02:26 PM

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 2:53pm

I've been watching this thread like a person rubbernecking a car wreck on the side of the highway. It's almost impossible to look away. It really is a fascinating look into human psychology and sociology. But can we all just agree that this thread has devolved into something totally unrelated to Broadway or theatre, in general? Can we quit attacking each other (what will it ultimately profit anyone at this point)? Can we just let this thread suffer a quick, painless death?

I'm on another forum site devoted to Apple products and the thread there devoted to the new iPhone X is about the same (although this one is way nastier and personal). It's easier to understand why this one escalated - issues of ageism and racism are very personal, but it's not a character flaw if you want or don't want to buy the newest Apple product. Lol

For the record:

I'm anti-racism, anti-ageism, and pro-iPhone X. Lol. And I try to be cognizant of my white privilege. But most importantly here on this site, I'm pro-theater, pro-arts. Isn't art supposed to entertain and also sometimes provoke deep down reflection into serious issues as well as inspire respectful conversation? 

Anyway, as a relative newby to BWW, can I respectfully implore all of us to let this thread die a mercifully death? 

Updated On: 9/13/17 at 02:53 PM

[haterobics]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 4:05pm

Miles2Go2 said: "For the record: I'm anti-racism, anti-ageism, and pro-iPhone X. Lol. And I try to be cognizant of my white privilege."

Isn't being pro-iPhone X an example of white privilege?!

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 4:20pm

Miles2Go2 said: "I've been watching this thread like a person rubbernecking a car wreck on the side of thehighway. It's almost impossible to look away. It really is a fascinating look into human psychology and sociology. But can we all just agree that this thread has devolved into something totally unrelated to Broadway or theatre, in general? Can we quit attacking each other (what will it ultimately profit anyone at this point)? Can we just let this thread suffer a quick, painless death?
 

Hey, I was open to start discussing opera and off-Broadway but as usually happens lately, that got stomped over by this same debate. 

[haterobics]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 4:27pm

VintageSnarker said: "Hey, I was open to start discussing opera and off-Broadway but as usually happens lately, that got stomped over by this same debate."

Would those occur in separate threads on those shows/topics? Would seem a bit of a strange turn in here...

[BroadwayRox3588]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 4:41pm

I'm not pro-iPhone X. I feel bad for the iPhone 9. I bet it was having a big housewarming, inviting people over, and just generally getting ready to party it up.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 9/13/17 at 4:46pm

haterobics said: "VintageSnarker said: "Hey, I was open to start discussing opera and off-Broadway but as usually happens lately, that got stomped over by this same debate."

Would those occur in separate threads on those shows/topics? Would seem a bit of a strange turn in here..."

Like another racism debate isn't a weird turn on a thread that got deleted because it was about age? I was replying to someone who complained we never talk about anything but frivolous stuff anymore. 

[kdogg36]

Posted: 9/14/17 at 10:04am

ErikJ972 said: "Agree 100%. Same goes for the Confederate flag."

Acknowledging my own ambivalence, I don't think people should be punished solely for displaying these symbols. I'm with the ACLU and the Supreme Court on this issue.

Believe me: if the government gets more involved in regulating political speech at this time, that power is not going to be used to silence the people you think should be silenced.

[newintown]

Posted: 9/14/17 at 10:30am

"Acknowledging my own ambivalence, I don't think people should be punished solely for displaying these symbols. I'm with the ACLU and the Supreme Court on this issue."

At this point in time, the swastika and the Confederate flag are inextricably linked to calls for genocide and other human violent atrocity. Displaying a swastika publicly is essentially the same as displaying a sign that says "exterminate the Jews," and displaying a Confederate flag is equivalent to putting up a sign that says "Blacks should be slaves." There is undeniably nothing positive about the display of either symbol at this time, and display of these symbols is incitement to violence.

Perhaps in a few hundred years, when human awareness of the Civil War and World War II is as foggy as today's awareness of the Peloponnesian Wars, those symbols will be merely decorative and stripped of meaning. But that day certainly hasn't arrived.

[Sunny11]

Posted: 9/14/17 at 10:42am

Actually the swastika is also a peaceful religious symbol in Hinduism and Buddhism and is still common place through out asia.

https://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/169321356/583700323/stock-photo-rooftop-of-a-hindu-temple-with-red-swastika-at-the-banks-of-bhagirati-river-in-uttarkashi-on-the-583700323.jpg
 

Updated On: 9/14/17 at 10:42 AM

[kdogg36]

Posted: 9/14/17 at 10:49am

newintown said: At this point in time, the swastika and the Confederate flag are inextricably linked to calls for genocide and other human violent atrocity. Displaying a swastika publicly is essentially the same as displaying a sign that says "exterminate theJews," and displaying a Confederate flag is equivalent to putting up a sign that says "Blacks should be slaves." There isundeniablynothing positive about the display of either symbol at this time, and display of these symbols is incitement to violence."

I don't disagree with you regarding the plain meaning of those symbols. However, absent any ability to carry through on these threats, I also wouldn't advocate legal punishments for anyone uttering those sentences, either. Although I'm not an expert, I think existing case law would also make it difficult to punish people who said those things.

The fact is, I've said things that, in less free countries, would get me in a lot of trouble. (Some of them have been on this site.) I can't advocate any increase in government regulation of speech or expression.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 9/14/17 at 12:11pm

Like another racism debate isn't a weird turn on a thread that got deleted because it was about age? I was replying to someone who complained we never talk about anything but frivolous stuff anymore."

Please do not say that the thread was deleted because it was about age unless you have read the initial post and hold that opinion. It was not at all about age. It was a revisitation of Kristin Chenoweth's remarkable performance in On The Twentieth Century, the sacrifices that she made to do a long run of that difficult role of Lily and a reevaluation of my opinion in the Kelli vs. Kristin Tony competition.

It was prompted by running into a large number of fan reviews of her concert tour into the heartland early this year while I was looking for information on the local Paul McCartney concerts. All of the reviews were so full of praise and love even in places like Indiana that are so far from Broadway.

I asked Alan to put the post up so people could read it themselves and decide, but he hasn't complied. I deserve the right to confront my accuser. As a retired attorney, I know that the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to this message board, but since the Board and its members are so strongly in favor of applying the rights on the national level, I wouldn't expect them to follow looser standards here.

Agreed that there are far more weightier matters that could be discussed, such as a recent article in the New York Times with the headline, "Is the U.S. Ready for Nuclear War"

And that is my last post.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 9/14/17 at 9:03pm

My post about FARINELLI's excessive advertising g campaign is now gone.

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 9/14/17 at 9:07pm

Dollypop said: "My post about FARINELLI's excessive advertising g campaign is now gone."

What could have possibly been inflammatory about that post? WTF, BWW?

[M.O.A.I.]

Posted: 9/14/17 at 9:53pm

1. This thread is a mess.

2. BroadwayWorld moderation is a mess. They take down random threads in their entirety, but don't even bother to merge or streamline the thousand threads about a given show, or all the stage door/ticket advice questions? This board is impossible to navigate, and then once you find what you're looking for, it gets taken down.

3. Saying "I don't see race" is a problem. There's a lot that needs to change in America.

4. Saying that we should appeal to universal humanism rather than to tribalistic identity politics - and I'm not sure if that's exactly the case Dave2828's making, and if so he hasn't done so eloquently, but it's my view - is not denying anyone's "humanity."

5. This generation of progressives' cavalier attitude toward free speech is astonishing. Sure, reasonable people can agree the swastika and Confederate flag are symbols of hate (although the Confederate flag, like it or not - and I'm among the nots - is also tied up in a lot of other mythology for many Southerners). The problem with outlawing speech on purely moral grounds is that the next moron in charge - or more likely, the current hateful, demagogic moron in charge - then has license and precedent to outlaw OUR speech as immoral and offensive.