Hamilton ticket prices-seriously?- Page 6

[EchoParker]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 2:54am

"You have no idea where I come from, which is the furthest place from a white town. Please explain to me how I am full of bigotry and hate?"

I love that the message board now puts numbers on our comments! This is useful. It will help me refer to certain posts above, all by a poster who goes by "Phillypinto".

In post #9, Pinto writes "How do they (producers) expect blacks and hispanics to see the show at these prices?"

In post #16: "It's a fact that blacks and hispanics don't have as much money as white people do in this world"

#20: "I'm definitely not racist"

#20: "I am for blacks and hispanics"

#24: "When I said I was 'for them' I meant I am not racist"

#24: "I don't think they can afford (theatre) as much as white people can"

#31: "Please explain to me how I am full of bigotry and hate."

Dear Pinto - regarding #31: thanks for asking! I'm happy to help. And I mean that. Honestly. Okay, I guess, more honestly, I'm happy to TRY to help. Would you like to be helped? That part is up to you. When you use the phrase "Please explain to me," are you actually asking that someone explain something to you? Quite possibly not. But... here goes.

Again - honestly - I am writing this in an effort to help. Might not help you, but it could help someone else who innocently got on this thread to read about the ticket prices at "Hamilton", and instead ended up confused as to what racism is.

First helpful fact: racism is really easy to explain, and really easy to identify. It's easy to identify when others make racist statements, and it's easy to identify when you yourself type racist statements on a comment thread, and - once you learn to identify racist statements - it's easy to go "oops! I just typed something racist!" and then delete it.

Second helpful fact: to make a racist statement is not necessarily to be bigoted or hateful. It isn't! Racism sometimes isn't even hurtful! Sometimes it's just... racist!

So, to be fair, you've asked me (well, you've asked someone) to explain to you how you're full of bigotry and hate, and I'm going to let you down there, because I don't know for certain that you're either a bigot, or hateful. And I GUESS, technically, I can't even claim to know you're a racist. But I do know that you make racist statements. You write things that are racist. You use racist language.

"I'm definitely not racist" you write in post #20. Okay. But you did WRITE something racist in post #9. And in post #16. And post #24. AND in post #20, right after you wrote "I'm definitely not racist".

So - what is racism?

Let's start with generalizations.

I go to a salad place for dinner quite often. Sometimes, there's a guy behind the counter named Ken. Ken is extremely friendly to me, he always greets me by name, and seems quite genuinely happy to see me.

True statement: Ken is very friendly.

True statement: Ken works at a salad place.

Generalization: Guys named Ken are very friendly.

Generalization: Guys who work at salad places are friendly.

Generalization: Guys who work at salad places are named Ken.

When you take a characteristic about one person, and then assign that characteristic to a whole group of people - that's a generalization.

Note that generalizations aren't necessarily offensive. They CAN be. "People who live in New Jersey are racist." See - that's offensive. Also a generalization.

But when they're not being offensive, generalizations are almost always ridiculous. "Guys who work at salad places are named Ken." Who would make such a silly, ridiculous generalization?

So... racism is a generalization (assigning the characteristic of one person to a whole group of people) when the GROUP is... a whole race of people.

Fact: Ken, the friendly salad guy, is black.

Generalization: Guys named Ken are very friendly.

Racism: Black people are very friendly.

Yup. It's as simple as that. That's a racist statement. You notice that it's not at all offensive. But it is ridiculous. It's ridiculous to assign a characteristic to a whole race of people, even if it's a positive characteristic. There ARE friendly black people. And unfriendly black people. But the entire race is neither all-friendly, or all-unfriendly. Of course it isn't. IT'S AN ENTIRE RACE OF PEOPLE. And, just as importantly, the fact that Ken is friendly has nothing to do with him being black. 

Every statement of yours I quoted above is racist. And ridiculous. 

"It's a fact that blacks and hispanics don't have as much money as white people do" is a racist statement. And a ridiculous, ludicrous, silly statement. You're assigning one income bracket (low) to the entire race of black people, and the entire race of hispanics, and another income bracket (higher than low) to another entire race of people. 

"I am for blacks and hispanics" is a racist statement. You are "for" (or "in favor of", or "on the side of") every person in both those races? Of course you're not. 

"When I said I was 'for them', I meant I am not racist." Okay, perhaps that's what you meant, but, sadly, you proved yourself racist by saying it, and then double proved it by saying it again.

And, I'm sad to tell you (but happy to educate you) that not only are the above two statements racist, they are both really, really, really offensive. To say you are 'for blacks' is offensive? Yes, yes it is. To tell any person who is black that you - in some part of your brain - lump him in with every other person who is black, just by nature of them all having the same (or similar) skin color... this is racist and offensive. To think of ALL people of any one race as a "them" - to actually USE the word "them" - is to reduce each and every one of those individuals to ONE aspect of their humanness: their race, or skin color.

#24: "I don't think they can afford theatre as much as white people can." Can you see, now, how absolutely ridiculous this statement is? (I really hope - I really, really, really hope you can.) Who is the "THEY" in this statement? Who are the white people in this statement? Are there blacks and hispanics who CAN'T afford theatre? Yup. Are there white people who can? Yup. Are there white people who can't afford theatre? Uh-oh. Yes, there are. Are there black and hispanic people who could BUY a Broadway theatre? Of course there are! Because being of one certain race does not equal being of one certain income bracket. And making a statement in which every member of a race ("white people") shares a single, personal characteristic ("can afford $400 theatre seats")... that's racism. It's also ridiculous. Right?

(By the way - a side note. The definition of "ridiculous" is "deserving of ridicule". You get so MAD when people on these boards ridicule you - when you post some statement, and suddenly 6 people are ridiculing you. Next time this happens, word to the wise: it's probably because you said something ridiculous.)

So now that you know (I really, really hope that you know) what racism is, you should be able to identify, just after you type something like #24, that you're about to post something racist. And ridiculous. And then, you can ask yourself: what if I DIDN'T make this a racist statement - what if I didn't assign a personal characteristic (low income) to a whole race of people, or two whole races of people - and another single characteristic (wealth) to another whole race of people? What if I - acknowledging that people's personal characteristics cannot be boiled down to what RACE they are - decided to remove race from my post altogether? What would my post look like then? Perhaps: "I don't think poor people can afford theatre as much as rich people can."

And there it is! An entirely racist free post! Racist free, and also true, and not at all ridiculous. 

Next week: sexism ("men are bad drivers") and ageism ("old people hate tacos").

Updated On: 6/10/15 at 02:54 AM

[sueb1863]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 6:35am

`Why is a raven like a writing-desk?'

Poe wrote on both.

:)

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 9:14am

but I have also seen shows that would be of interest to blacks and hispanics and still barely see black or hispanic people. 

I don't believe you. I've seen Fences, Stick Fly, Mountaintop, and Streetcar (Blair Underwood version) to name a few, and I'd say that the majority of the audiences in the theaters were black patrons. 

 

Updated On: 6/10/15 at 09:14 AM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 9:28am

These prices affect everyone unless they are Donald Trump. It is not a black or white issue.

Hamilton for us will be a cast album, an actors fund and if no actors fund a naughty version. If we were both working no way would we pay what they are asking. A lottery or today tix might be an option also. If we do not see it, we will somehow survive also. Our feelings toward Broadway have  radically changed. We would like to see something but will live if we do not

Do  not tell me how bad viewing a boot would be toward their box office. They will do just fine without us going. We would like to see it in person but it probably will not be possible until near the end of the run.

When you have you income basically cut in half when you retire you have to make choices.

Updated On: 6/10/15 at 09:28 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 9:30am

^This.  x1,000.

 

At The Color Purple, which I really enjoyed, the audience was overwhelmingly filled with persons of color.  That was true of Fela as well.

 

Do I wish b'way could get over this race barrier?  That there wouldn't BE shows that appealed to some races more than others?  Sure....but that is a two way street. And this happens in movies as well.  There certainly weren't a lot of white folks at The Color Purple, why not?

On the other hand, if we whitewash everything where race doesn't even matter, we have lost the heart of many stories.   

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 9:40am

  That was true of Fela as well.

I forgot about Fela! Yes, I had the same experience there too. Given Philly's age, I doubt that he's seen most of these productions in discussion. 

[Kad]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 9:41am

For those of you engaging Pinto for the first time: there is no use. He will not recant or apologize or acknowledge being in the wrong. Every time he enters a thread, it devolves this way. He will place the blame on everyone else. He will say no one gets what he really means, or that no one understands his tone, or that it's just his opinion. He will change the topic. It goes the same way every single time. Just block him. You will miss nothing.

[macnyc]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 9:42am

I understand what you're saying Mr. Roxy. I will be at the same income level in a couple of years, maybe sooner.

I have had to cut back on theater the past year also. I even have to watch TDF prices. I get tickets mainly through the seat-filler service I belong to, and also through rush and lotteries. A couple of times a year I splurge and buy full-priced tickets, but those are few and far between. I did buy four tickets to Hamilton so that I can see the show with my family. (Happy birthday to me!)

Hamilton will have some sort of lotto, most likely. Of course, demand for that will be very high. I hope to see a tix4students deal too, although of course it won't help me!

The regularly priced orchestra seats for Hamilton are not that far out of line. But because scalpers have scooped up so many tickets, and are pricing them $100 above list price or double list price on StubHub, the situation is dire for us regular folks. My seats are in the rear side orchestra.

I'm predicting that demand for the Broadway version will not be as high as the demand for tickets for the limited-run Public version, which had 299 seats for sale each performance. Once the scalpers have been burned and fade away, there will be far more regular orchestra seats available.

I think the mezzanine and rear mezzanine prices are too high. I sat in the rear mezz for If/Then, and I think the ticket was sixty something. I hope Hamilton adjusts these prices in time.

I would also like to see something like the $27 mezzanine price that Curious Incident offers. I saw the show that way and I'm very grateful to have had the opportunity.

I hope school groups will be able to get in to see Hamilton at a big discount. Hamilton is a great way to introduce the young generation to exciting theater. (Of course, they will probably feel let down by the next three or four shows they happen to see, but that's another problem!)

Edited to add: I blocked Philly a while ago, but it really doesn't help if everyone replies to him and quotes him. I hope people will see him for what he is and truly ignore him and not allow him to become the focal point of every discussion.

 

 

Updated On: 6/10/15 at 09:42 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 9:46am

Tickets sales for groups (they don't usually care if it is a school group or not) are dependent on general sales.  The better the sales are, the less of a discount they give. I don't think Lion King does group discounts to this day.  Same is likely of Wicked.

 

On the other hand, you can see POTO pretty cheap with a group and a number of other shows.

 

I'm hoping my school will want to see this in the spring, AND that it will fit our budget...but I'm not confident.  Time will tell.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 9:46am

Why try and build an audience for the future when prices will price theater out of most budgets

Glad to hear we are not the only ones in this predicament macnyc. Take care

Those who rip us now will someday be in our predicament and it will not be pretty. This is assuming Social Security is even still there for them. Karma's a ***** . They will find out soon enough 

Updated On: 6/10/15 at 09:46 AM

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 12:55pm

I want to actually see stats and see how many black people see the lion king, or how many hispanics and black people will see Hamilton. 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 1:11pm

WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE SHOW THE PINTO BEAN SOME STATS??

SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE STATS ON HOW MANY NEGROS SEE THEATRE!!

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 1:27pm

 Cause theaters really keep track of the race of each patron.

[xxdrewboy85xx]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 1:32pm

This thread makes my head hurt. I just wish Pinto (and the headband) disappear soon like Mikey, Sue, and Jim Coyler. 

 

Now I need to go smoke a bowl. 

[tazber]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 1:35pm

I second xxdrewboy85xx's comments.

Jeez.

[uncageg]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 1:40pm

Usually, unless it is a black oriented show, most black people don't attend theatre. I was in line for a ticket to see MOTOWN and black people were buying premium seats. I walk past that theater all the time and the bulk of the audiences were black. Black people, or any other race, will pay if they want to see a show. I think not being able to afford a ticket covers all races. Just my opinion.

I always like to post this interview when this conversation comes up:

https://www.broadwayworld.com/denver/article/In-Conversation-The-Cast-of-Radio-Golf-at-the-Denver-Center-20090426

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 2:30pm

Ooooh, gurls...count me in.  Mama needs a puff!

[mpd4165]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 2:35pm

"I want to actually see stats and see how many black people see the lion king, or how many hispanics and black people will see Hamilton. "

 

I can give you stats on your totally racist comments, how 'bout that?

[nicnyc]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 3:14pm

Can someone technologically-inclined please tell me how to block Philly Pinto?  I can't figure it out and I don't want to read any more of this insanity.  Thank you in advance. 

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 3:18pm

I absolutely love everything EchoParker said.

nicnyc, all you have to do is click "settings" at the top of the page, and the first option given (under "Message Board") is to "ignore message board users." Simply enter his name exactly how he spells it, et voila! no more pinto.

Updated On: 6/10/15 at 03:18 PM

[nicnyc]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 3:24pm

Thank you so much gypsy101! I am forever in your debt!

[n2nbaby]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 3:24pm

I get out of work at 4. Let's all meet at my place and smoke and then make videos of us eating and making fun of Philly and post them on YouTube.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 3:31pm

That sounds like more fun than it has a right to be!

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 3:44pm

"Usually, unless it is a black oriented show, most black people don't attend theatre."

Dear lord now I need a smoke too.

[MichelleCraig]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 4:33pm

"I blame Liza.  She made us pay $25 to see her in THE ACT.  I'll never forget the reaction: "Twenty-five dollars?!  I mean, Liza!  But even so!

I remember that...it was a banner headline in weekly Variety. However, that $25 ticket, adjusted for inflation, would be $97.61 today. So things appear to have gotten a little out of hand on the side of greed...