Scott Rudin Planned revivals- Page 2

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 5/17/21 at 6:26pm

ctorres23 said: "In the land of cancelville, "abuse" of employees does not bother me anywhere near the level of sexual misconduct/assault or racism."

*checks notes*

He pushed someone out of a moving car...

He threw **** at people...

It's not "abuse" it's abuse.

[Dolly80]

Posted: 5/17/21 at 6:52pm

ctorres23 said: "My take is that Rudin's departure is a net-loss for the theatre community in the short-term, but in the long-term individual humans, no matter how indispensable we perceive them to be, are all 100% replaceable. His future productions will likely not be staged, and they will be replaced by other productions that might not have the same pedigree, but whose diversity will likely have other (and possibly altogether better) qualities.

The analogy I would make is how natural disasters often have, counterintuitively, net-positive economic benefits because they destroy antiquated-but-protected infrastructure that can be replaced with new and improved structures. It's bad in the moment, and no one roots for it to happen, but there is a silver-lining.

All that being said, I would nevertheless willingly trade a handful of petrified assistants (grown-ass humans who voluntarily chose to work for a lunatic) for several excellent Broadway productions in the coming years. In the land of cancelville, "abuse" of employees does not bother me anywhere near the level of sexual misconduct/assault or racism."

You sound really nice.

Posted: 5/17/21 at 7:59pm

TheatreFan4 said: "He pushed someone out of a moving car..."

I read that story and I call B.S. on it.

“I guess some appointment didn’t sync on his phone,” he said. “It was years ago, but Kevin told me that Rudin either shoved open a door or shoved him into the door, but basically was yelling, ‘F*CK you, get the **** out of my car’ and Kevin was like, ‘The car’s moving, I can’t,’ and Rudin was like, ‘No, now.’ And I don’t know if he pushed him physically or pushed the door open that he was leaning on, but either way. Kevin said he didn’t exactly have to tuck and roll, but it was the shock of getting thrown out.”

It's from a second-hand source recounting a story he was told a decade ago. I don't doubt that Rudin made him get out of his car but describing it as "he pushed someone from a moving car" is just such a weasel-y exaggeration designed to imply a much more brutal experience than the one that appears to have transpired based on the description.

Dolly80 said: "You sound really nice."

It's not about being nice, I just give a wide berth to grown adults to make choices for themselves. If someone makes the choice to work for a known lunatic, I'm not going to be their mom and try and convince them it's not in their best interest.

To reiterate what I said above, these assistants are not being discriminated against because of a demographic factor they can't control, and they're not being manipulated into satisfying the sexual desires of someone who has power over them. They've chosen to work for a boss who has seemingly extreme anger management issues (among other things), and if one day they decide they that is not something they want in their lives, they have full agency to walk out the door.

Updated On: 5/17/21 at 07:59 PM

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 5/17/21 at 8:32pm

Holy dear god you are dismal.

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 5/17/21 at 9:18pm

ctorres23 said: "To reiterate what I said above, these assistants are not being discriminated against because of a demographic factor they can't control, and they're not being manipulated into satisfying the sexual desires of someone who has power over them. They've chosen to work for aboss who has seemingly extreme anger management issues (among other things), and if one day they decide they that is not something they want in their lives, they have full agency to walk out the door."

Yes, sounds great. Do you know the type of people who start off as assistants? Young actors & writers new to Hollywood or NY who are going to be not too familiar with his reputation but know he is a VERY powerful producer. Have you EVER heard of the term "Power Dynamics"? You seem to have because you highlighted it pretty thoroughly with your bit about sexual assault. So you're just incredibly obtuse and don't give a **** because it is the EXACT ****ing same thing. Rudin getting off on the power that he has, he just didn't do it sexually (that we know of). He is a monster. He has assaulted & abused multiple people. Just because they're not sexual in nature doesn't make them any less so.

Posted: 5/17/21 at 9:44pm

TheatreFan4 said: "Do you know the type of people who start off as assistants? Young actors & writers new to Hollywood or NY who are going to be not too familiar with his reputation but know he is a VERY powerful producer."

You are infantilizing these adults in order to justify why a mob needed to fight their battles for them, when in fact they could just quit their job and be forever free of the bad man.

TheatreFan4 said: "Have you EVER heard of the term "Power Dynamics"? You seem to havebecauseyou highlighted it pretty thoroughly with your bit about sexual assault. So you're just incredibly obtuse and don't give a **** because it is the EXACT ****ing same thing."

Someone using their occupational power to manipulate a subordinate into sex is very definitely not exactly the same as having a reputation for angry outbursts when assistants do not execute their job responsibilities. It concerns me that you think they're equivalent.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 5/17/21 at 10:09pm

ctorres23 said: "TheatreFan4 said: "He pushed someone out of a moving car..."

I read that story and I call B.S. on it.

“I guess some appointment didn’t sync on his phone,” he said. “It was years ago, but Kevin told me that Rudin either shoved open a door or shoved him into the door, but basically was yelling, ‘F*CK you, get the **** out of my car’ and Kevin was like, ‘The car’s moving, I can’t,’ and Rudin was like, ‘No, now.’ And I don’t know if he pushed him physically or pushed the door open that he was leaning on, but either way. Kevin said he didn’t exactly have to tuck and roll, but it was the shock of getting thrown out.”

It's from asecond-hand source recounting a story he was told a decade ago. I don't doubt that Rudin made him get out of his car but describing it as "he pushed someone from a moving car" is just such a weasel-y exaggeration designed to imply a much more brutal experience than the one that appears to have transpired based on the description.

Dolly80 said: "You sound really nice."

It's not about being nice, I just give a wide berth to grown adults to make choices for themselves. If someone makes the choice to work for a known lunatic, I'm not going to be their mom and try and convince them it's not in their best interest.

To reiterate what I said above, these assistants are not being discriminated against because of a demographic factor they can't control, and they're not being manipulated into satisfying the sexual desires of someone who has power over them. They've chosen to work for aboss who has seemingly extreme anger management issues (among other things), and if one day they decide they that is not something they want in their lives, they have full agency to walk out the door."


Thank you!! Finally a voice of reason. 

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 5/17/21 at 10:24pm

Voice of delusion and ignorance, but go off.

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 5/17/21 at 10:39pm

ctorres23 said: You are infantilizing these adults in order to justifywhy a mob needed to fight their battles for them, when in fact they could just quit their job and be forever free of the bad man.

Infantilizing? Oh now we're just throwing out words! They're people in their early 20s, usually new to the city and trying to break into the industry. GTFO with your nonsense. "They could just quit their job!" and be replaced with someone else for him to abuse. The man went through 118 Assistants in 5 years. Guess what? They did leave! 

TheatreFan4 said: Someone using their occupational power to manipulate a subordinate into sex is very definitely not exactly the sameas having a reputation for angry outbursts when assistants do not execute their job responsibilities. It concerns me that you think they're equivalent."

They are both abuse and it has nothing to do with whether or not someone was able to perform their job responsibilities. He used his power to abuse people. 

Why don't you just say you think he did nothing wrong and that's the price we all have to pay for the good he's done. Trot out of the line of defense that has been for literally every abuser from here to the beginning of time. It's a REAL good look for you.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/17/21 at 11:21pm

TheatreFan4 said: "They are both abuse and it has nothing to do with whether or not someone was able to perform their job responsibilities. He used his power to abuse people.

Why don't you just say you think he did nothing wrong and that's the price we all have to pay for the good he's done. Trot out of the line of defense that has been for literally every abuser from here to the beginning of time. It's a REAL good look for you."

I called out the person with whom you are interacting as a troll quite a while ago, and it remains true. It's just getting more pathetic as the apologetic posing continues because a troll has to keep ratcheting it up, or else no one pays attention. (And that's the pathology.) Everything you say above is, of course, correct. Let me just put a little more meat on the bones. I think we all understand what assault is, and there are obviously cases of assault here, with multiple witnesses. But this is New York, not some jurisdiction that abides this type of conduct. We call it harassment.Under our law, a person is guilty of Harassment in the Second Degree when, with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person, he or she engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which alarm or seriously annoy such other person and
which serve no legitimate purpose. Rudin did this in spades. And here in New York, we don't countenance as a defense that there are other crimes that would be worse. Astonishingly that's some of the nonsense we are reading in this this thread. Having said all that, I encourage you not to feed the troll. 

[unclevictor]

Posted: 5/18/21 at 12:37am

HogansHero said: "TheatreFan4 said: "They are both abuse and it has nothing to do with whether or not someone was able to perform their job responsibilities. He used his power to abuse people.

Why don't you just say you think he did nothing wrong and that's the price we all have to pay for the good he's done. Trot out of the line of defense that has been for literally every abuser from here to the beginning of time. It's a REAL good look for you."

I called out the person with whom you are interacting as a troll quite a while ago, and it remains true. It's just getting more pathetic as the apologetic posing continues because a troll has to keep ratcheting it up, or else no one pays attention. (And that's the pathology.) Everything you say above is, of course, correct. Let me just put a little more meat on the bones. I think we all understand what assault is, and there are obviously cases of assault here, with multiple witnesses. But this is New York, not some jurisdiction that abides this type of conduct. We call it harassment.Under our law, a person is guilty of Harassment in theSecond Degree when, with intent to harass, annoy or alarmanother person, he or sheengages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits actswhich alarm or seriously annoy such other person and
which serve no legitimate purpose. Rudin did this in spades. And here in New York, we don't countenance as a defense that there are other crimes that would be worse. Astonishingly that's some of the nonsensewe are reading in this this thread. Having said all that, I encourage you not to feed the troll."

Says the queen of all trolls. Again, u don’t run these boards. You’re not in charge. U have ZERO authority. People can post whatever they want. Get a life and maybe find something else to do.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/18/21 at 3:48am

Honestly, what JSQUARED posted, maybe swayed me. I mean it's not like we know for certain he "threw someone out of a car." That's not what the article says. So, I mean, if there's doubt...

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 5/18/21 at 8:39am

Just so y'all know, you don't need to defend a monster just because you liked the shows he worked on...

Posted: 5/18/21 at 10:18am

TheatreFan4 said: "Just so y'all know, you don't need to defend a monster just because you liked the shows he worked on..."

Monster is the perfect "cancel" word because it's so vague that it can describe almost anyone, from a notorious serial killer all the way down to a successful film producer who throws baked potatoes at his assistants.

The goal of using that word is to cloud the narrative of what the person is actually accused of and create the appearance of them being worse than the reality. It makes cancellation easier in exactly the way you just employed it, basically: "how dare you defend a monster". It makes this person seem so terrible that even the act of defending them is beyond the pale.

But, no. Rudin has serious anger management issues but his crimes are perfectly within the realm of capitalist comeuppance: if people don't like to work for him, they can quit. They don't need a protest and they don't need a Twitter mob, they just need a backbone.

(A brief politics aisde ---> ) The reason I get so fired up about this is because I am incredibly liberal, and liberal policies are broadly popular, and the only reason the other side is even remotely competitive is because the current left-narrative is dominated by cancel culture. And people hate cancel culture. We should be winning, but instead we're treading water because the thing that gets the most attention is also the thing that annoys the greatest number of people. People that agree with our policies will nevertheless vote against us only because of cancel culture. It lets the right talk exclusively about cancellation instead of trying to explain why they want to take health care away. The trade-off to get rid of one producer, or one anchor, or one comedian has long term costs that a lot of people aren't grasping. Canceling comedians while the world burns. (/end politics aside)

Updated On: 5/18/21 at 10:18 AM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/18/21 at 10:48am

New Yorkers are legally entitled to a workplace to a safe, abuse-free, and harassment-free workplace. Requiring someone to quit as a remedy is anathema under New York law. And defending a physically and emotionally abusive boss is anathema to our society's sense of morals, ethics, and common decency. I didn't think I would have to explain that. 

 

Posted: 5/18/21 at 10:58am

HogansHero said: "New Yorkers are legally entitled to a workplace to a safe, abuse-free, and harassment-free workplace. Requiring someone to quit as a remedy is anathema under New York law. And defending a physically and emotionally abusive boss is anathema to our society's sense of morals, ethics, and common decency. I didn't think I would have to explain that."

Both this and your claim that Rudin is guilty of "harassment" are the epitome of Bad Legal Takes.

[Owen22]

Posted: 5/18/21 at 11:06am

ctorres23 said: "TheatreFan4 said: "Do you know the type of people who start off as assistants? Young actors & writers new to Hollywood or NY who are going to be not too familiar with his reputation but know he is a VERY powerful producer."

You are infantilizing these adults in order to justifywhy a mob needed to fight their battles for them, when in fact they could just quit their job and be forever free of the bad man.

TheatreFan4 said: "Have you EVER heard of the term "Power Dynamics"? You seem to havebecauseyou highlighted it pretty thoroughly with your bit about sexual assault. So you're just incredibly obtuse and don't give a **** because it is the EXACT ****ing same thing."

Someone using their occupational power to manipulate a subordinate into sex is very definitely not exactly the sameas having a reputation for angry outbursts when assistants do not execute their job responsibilities. It concerns me that you think they're equivalent."

At the risk of possibly diluting the reports of the man's abuse with intersectionality, did you read how he ESPECIALLY abused women of color?  Casual racism is okay by you?

Posted: 5/18/21 at 11:10am

Owen22 said: "did you read how he ESPECIALLY abused women of color? Casual racism is okay by you?"

Please feel free to send any links where those allegations are detailed.

Update: I found one mention in the 10,000-word New York Mag article:

“One of the first things any of the other interns told me was that it would be way easier for me because I was a pretty gay person and not a woman, and especially not a woman of color. He would have me do all of the runs; I would take things to his house so he could read them. That was an opportunity that was given to me because I was pretty; he could trust me. The Black women, especially, he would never trust. He doesn’t invest in them. My jaw would drop every time some poor girl got in his viewfinder. The way he was cutting and cruel to me was awful, but it was funny, because he was like, “Ha-ha-ha, whatever, you’re catty.” It was so much worse when it was targeted at a 21-year-old girl.” —Development intern, 2019

I don't know what to make of that single accusation amongst a sea of other first-person accounts. If it was really prevalent, you'd think it would be more of a recurring theme considering that racism is on everyone's minds right now. But who knows, maybe he was a horrible racist in addition to being unable to control his temper.

Updated On: 5/18/21 at 11:10 AM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/18/21 at 11:22am

ctorres23 said: "HogansHero said: "New Yorkers are legally entitled to a workplace to a safe, abuse-free, and harassment-free workplace. Requiring someone to quit as a remedy is anathema under New York law. And defending a physically and emotionally abusive boss is anathema to our society's sense of morals, ethics, and common decency. I didn't think I would have to explain that."

Both this and your claim that Rudin is guilty of "harassment" are the epitome of Bad Legal Takes."

Your putative willful blindness about Rudin's conduct does not provide a foundation for any discussion, Troll.

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 5/18/21 at 12:54pm

Always fun to play spot the Republican here, they usually say the quiet parts out loud.

Posted: 5/18/21 at 1:08pm

BroadwayNYC2 said: "Always fun to play spot the Republican here, they usually say the quiet parts out loud."

I've literally never voted for a Republican and can't imagine I ever will. But running purity tests against other members of the left instead of trying to broaden the coalition is how the left loses elections despite their policies being more popular than the right's.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/18/21 at 1:17pm

ctorres23 said: "BroadwayNYC2 said: "Always fun to play spot the Republican here, they usually say the quiet parts out loud."

I've literally never voted for a Republican and can't imagine I ever will. But running purity tests against other members of the left instead of trying to broaden the coalition is how the left loses elections despite their policies being more popular than the right's."

This is not a left or right issue. The law is the law and the facts are the facts. Both are clear in this case. Only right wing trolls posing as left wingers post things like this, in an effort to create wedges. Besides, your prior racist posts give the lie to your claims here. 

The Secret Life of Trolls. Maybe Rudin is paying for your services here. I wouldn't put it past him. 

Posted: 5/18/21 at 1:35pm

HogansHero said: "This is not a left or right issue. The law is the law and the facts are the facts. Both are clear in this case."

Are you just cosplaying a prosecutor giving a closing argument to a jury right now? What the hell are you talking about?

Rudin's not being charged with anything and at no point was that even on the table. I am discussing the various forces that caused him to voluntarily step down, and you're over here arguing with yourself about the finer points of assault versus harassment in New York State law. It's a weird digression. Please take it to PM with yourself.

HogansHero said: "Besides, your prior racist posts give the lie to your claims here."

You compared Robin de Jesus's interactions with his producers to the relationship between sharecroppers and landowners. But, sure, I'm the racist. The ultimate defense is to accuse others first of what you know yourself to be guilty of.

Updated On: 5/18/21 at 01:35 PM

[unclevictor]

Posted: 5/18/21 at 2:51pm

ctorres23 said: "HogansHero said: "New Yorkers are legally entitled to a workplace to a safe, abuse-free, and harassment-free workplace. Requiring someone to quit as a remedy is anathema under New York law. And defending a physically and emotionally abusive boss is anathema to our society's sense of morals, ethics, and common decency. I didn't think I would have to explain that."

Girl, is he really worth going head to head with? He’s a troll. He thinks he’s always right. He spews his misinformation everyday. He’s a troll. 
I like what u post though!

 

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/18/21 at 2:57pm

ctorres23 said: "HogansHero said: "Besides, your prior racist posts give the lie to your claims here."

You compared Robin de Jesus's interactions with his producers to the relationship between sharecroppers and landowners. But, sure, I'm the racist. The ultimate defense is to accuse others first of what you know yourself to be guilty of."

Yes, you are a troll and a racist and a dissembler and probably a lot worst. You had UV have fun though. I am not feeding you anymore.