Interview: John Gould Rubin Directing Creative Cohort Joe Morton as KING LEAR

Next up at The Wallis, a radical reinvention of Shakespeare's King Lear, starring Joe Morton in the titular role opens May 14, 2022 (with previews beginning May 10th). John Gould Rubin directs the cast which also includes Mark Harelik, River Gallo, Zach Solomon, Brie Eley, Emily Swallow, Rafael Jordan, Miguel Perez, Stanley Jackson, and Danielle Thorpe.

John was most gracious to carve out some time of his full creative schedule to answer a few of my queries.

Thank you for taking the time for this interview, John!

You have previously teamed up with Joe Morton and The Wallis' former Artistic Director Paul Crewes at The Wallis in Turn Me Loose in 2017. How did the conversation of a possible King Lear production come about?

Joe and I had had a three-year collaboration on Turn Me Loose, and the time felt happy and successful to both of us, which led to the question of whether there was anything we wanted to pursue next. Joe had an interest in Lear, which I proposed to Paul, who then wanted to investigate further as to why The Wallis might be interested. That conversation led to a weekend retreat in northern New York state with our Turn Me Loose designer, Chris Barreca, Dramaturg Morgan Jenness, Joe, Paul, actress Michaela Butros-Ghali, Christine Lietz, and myself. The concept of the production and version of the script that we are using were all initiated in that weekend retreat, which led Paul to believe that it was worthy of The Wallis producing.

Did the idea of including original music, videos, and projections emerge from those conversations? Or did these production concepts come later on?

The notion of original sound, music, and video emerged later. We continued the conversations regularly after the original weekend and more, when we engaged designers and, with them, expanded our conversations to include ideas related to their disciplines. We had a core group of collaborators, but as we expanded that group, the conversations expanded to embrace their particular disciplines.

What productions of King Lear had you seen previously?

I'd seen a few, spanning an early 90's version with Stacey Keach through the recent Broadway version with Glenda Jackson, and lots of the film versions. Each of us had our own historical relationship to the play, all expanded by the film versions that are so readily available, so all of our experiences with the play coalesced to build our group approach.

For those few unfamiliar with Shakespeare's classic, what would your three-pitch of King Lear be?

For our stripped-down version, it's the tale of two, dysfunctional families wrestling with the deterioration of the patriarch and that patriarch's relations with his children; how deteriorating behavior, and the children's understanding of that, can destroy families and undermine the security of our world.

Besides Joe and Paul, have you worked with any of King Lear's cast or creatives before?

Only the sound/composers, Ursula Kwong-Brown and Danny Erdberg, and the costume designer, X. Hill, are new collaborators. All the others I've worked with for many years. Chris Barreca (sets) and Steve Strawbridge (lighting) I've worked with since I was an actor; Morgan Jenness, the dramaturge, I have known since the 80's and collaborated with over many years on Turn Me Loose.

What was the inspiration for you and your co-founders to establish Private Theatre in 1980?

It was the rebellion against a continuing predominance of naturalism in American theater in the 70's that didn't seem to acknowledge that there was a new growth of epic and stylistic theater trends emerging from East European theater at the time. We were inspired by Grotowski, Kantor, and Brook and felt we were on a vanguard of artists fighting what we thought were limited and out-of-date theatrical ambitions. When we got out of school, we were rebellious and ambitious, and our ideas followed those new trends we perceived from eastern Europe.

Besides yourself (now as Private Theatre's artistic director), what other founding members have flourished in the arts throughout these years?

Travis Preston is the Artistic Director of the Center for New Performance and Dean at CalArts. And Billy Foeller, who has been memorialized at Williamstown after an untimely death, and Jody McAuliffe, who has become a leader in theater development at Duke University. Also, Louis Black, now a very successful comic and Mark Linn-Baker, whose career has expanded in many directions.

In the credits of King Lear, writing credit goes to, of course, Shakespeare. But since this is a 'radical reinvention of King Lear, is there a 're-writing' credit'?

The adaptation is by Morgan Jenness, a collaborator since the very inception of the project. So yes, this is her version of the play, inspired by her participation at the first workshop retreat three years ago and maintained by her work to consistently respond to all the workshops and developments since that time. Morgan worked with Joe Papp as the initial literary manager at The Public, knows Lear well from many adventures with it, and has been instrumental in guiding us with fidelity to the thrust and truth of the play through to our present ambitions with it.

You've directed all over the United States and in Europe. If you closed your eyes, could you distinguish the different audiences you've had from the different cities and countries? More boisterous? More reserved?

No, I wouldn't distinguish audiences that way. Wherever I've worked, I've found those audiences that were interested in the kind of work I was doing even as I have always hoped that I was broadening that group. But I also believe I've done different kinds of work, some more narratively straightforward, some more adventurous and even experimental. But I like broad comedy, hence the musical The Fartiste, and the more experimental, such as Peer Gynt with wheelchair-using actor Neil Hancock in the title role. I hope my profile can continue to expand internationally, and also in terms of theatrical conventions - but have found the audiences around the world interested in the same varieties I find here in the US.

Out of all the numerous productions you've directed, is there one that stands out high above the rest? Most challenges overcome. Most significant message delivered. Most memorable audience response.

I've had a great time with Brecht having done Caucasion Chalk Circle, Mother Courage and Arturo Ui, all of which surprised me by the confrontations with farce and pathos, so I feel my skill at adapting my work really seemed to flourish with his plays. Most recently, I've been developing a new version of A Doll House, by Ibsen, and had a few workshops with the new adaptation we commissioned by Royston Coppenger. The last of these was a residency at The Marble House Project in Vermont which was an absolutely ecstatic experience in terms of making the stage devices conform to the ideas we're developing; not unlike our process with Lear. I'm very excited to continue with that project.

Is there a classic you still would love to get your hands on and radically reinvent?

Well, A Doll House, as described above. I'd also like to work on Enemy of the People. I saw a production of that by Thomas Ostermeier from the Schaulbrunner which made me want to see if I could address it as well, and I've always wanted to try my hand at Measure for Measure.

What's in the near future for John Gould Rubin?

A Doll House, as described above. Also, it looks like we might have the freedom to take Turn Me Loose to Broadway, which I am very eager to do. I've got another play I want to produce on Broadway and am in negotiations for that now. I will be directing the film version of The Court of Oyer and Terminer in New York in August, whose author, Michael Ricigliano also wrote a play about the first Latina President, Godless, which we plan on mounting next season with Elizabeth Rodriguez and Harry Lennix. Those are the plans I've presently got in my sights.

Thank you again, John! I look forward to experiencing your version of King Lear.

For tickets to the live performances of King Lear through June 5, 2022; log onto TheWallis.org/lear