"WHY HAS THERE NEVER BEEN AN ALL-BLACK REVIVAL OF "GYPSY"?

[ChgoTheatreGuy]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 1:39am

To me, it seems odd that as many revivals we have had for the musical "Gypsy", we have never had an all-black version of the show.  I know that there, and are today many Black singers that could pull this off, even if one of the young up and coming girl singers would be interested.

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[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 1:55am

The short answer is it's been frequently revived, the last 2 revivals lost money, and there are plenty of other shows worthy of a revival. Will there be a revival with a Black Rose someday? Sure. Scott Rudin was planning a revival with Audra McDonald. But I can't think of a Black actress who sings who could sell enough tickets to make this a steady hit.


ChgoTheatreGuy said: "I know that there, and are today many Black singers that could pull this off, even if one of the young up and coming girl singers would be interested."

As to your other points: When it happens, I should hope they cast an actor who can sing, not merely a singer. And it shouldn't matter if an "up and coming girl singer"(?) is interested, since there is one star role and a Broadway up-and-comer isn't selling any tickets.

Updated On: 12/18/22 at 01:55 AM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 9:08am

The last two revivals have happened with ladies who it seems “needed” to play Rose and that the Broadway community all but demanded play her. If that trend continues with the show, the next Rose should rightly be Audra. I know this discussion happens every other month but (besides the mention of Sutton Foster in a few years), I honestly can’t think of anyone else now who “needs” to play the role.

Her and Stokes as Rose and Herbie is still my dream.

Edit - 

But as noted above, the show doesn’t turn a profit and it seems Audra’s name alone (sadly) couldn’t keep it afloat. Her last few shows haven’t done well at all. So they would need to implement some level of star casting in other roles, Louise I’m guessing, to make it work. 

Updated On: 12/18/22 at 09:08 AM

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 9:45am

An “all black” production is really a conceit of the 1960s and 1970s for white audiences who couldn’t accept an integrated cast. 

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 11:26am

It would be more interesting to see an original musical about Black female performers in vaudeville than giving Gypsy its umpteen zillionth revival with an identity gimmick. 

[Ke3]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 11:53am

Louise will be the key to getting a star name for any revival of Gypsy with a Broadway name as Rose. I don't even think it would be necessarily hard to get a name to agree to. It seems like it'd be an easy sell to a young performer wanting to dip their toes into Broadway. Especially with Benanti's performance and Tony award to point to as proof that it can be more than a nothing role with the right performer. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 1:40pm

Ke3 said: "Louise will be the key to getting a star name for any revival of Gypsy with a Broadway name as Rose. I don't even think it would be necessarily hard to get a name to agree to. It seems like it'd be an easy sell to a young performer wanting to dip their toes into Broadway. Especially with Benanti's performance and Tony award to point to as proof that it can be more than a nothing role with the right performer."

Maaaaybe, but I still don't think there's enough there to entice a star who will sell a meaningful number of tickets playing Louise. A high-powered agent for a prominent 20-something actress is not going to bend over backwards to sign their client for this role, unless it's a very unique scenario –– such as a comeback, or a musician trying to cross over (but then that gets into questions of if they would actually mean enough in this role anyways). I could not see Halle Bailey or Rachel Zegler or Jenna Ortega or Olivia Rodrigo (to throw out a couple examples) taking on this role.

Perhaps a best-case-scenario is a female equivalent of Gaten Matarazzo in SWEENEY? He's not going to sell the thing out on his own, but at least means something (for now) and probably isn't commanding a super-salary.

Updated On: 12/18/22 at 01:40 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 2:06pm

QueenAlice said: "An “all black” production is really a conceit of the 1960s and 1970s for white audiences who couldn’t accept an integrated cast."

I was thinking the same thing. I do think an integrated cast with 3 leads of color would be awesome. 
I could see Keke Palmer as Louise. 

Updated On: 12/18/22 at 02:06 PM

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 2:31pm

Agreed I’d love to see a multi-racial cast and think it would be more progressive to show a blended family. 
 

They should get Audra for an Encores Gala. 

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 2:37pm

It was not just aimed at white audiences who couldn't accept an integrated cast. It was creating job opportunities for performers of color, period. 

As for whether or not it's still needed today -- when you consider the latter reason for its existence, I say absolutely. As an industry pro, I marvel at movies and TV shows, and even theater, where virtually the entire cast is white, yet no one bats an eyelash over it; producers, writers, etc., are very rarely called out as (even unintentionally) racist for this phenomenon. At all. This cultural inertia is seen, whether stated explicitly or not, as the norm.

Minorities are under-represented (not represented is more like it) in roles that could be filled by persons of any color. And, not that I'm accusing anybody of deliberate ignorance (or worse), but I always get kind of suspicious when people say it was just about integration or call it an "identity gimmick" and imply -- or even outright state -- that we don't need that anymore...

My answer to all that is yes we do, and tough crap if you don't like it. Maybe you'll get something out of it, maybe you won't, but it's not for you, and not everything has to be. There is nothing wrong with reflecting the music, dance, and nuances that make up a specific culture through a familiar lens, especially if that culture is under-represented in media. If that stops you from buying a ticket, then maybe you need to ask yourself why.

Updated On: 12/18/22 at 02:37 PM

[Wick3]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 2:56pm

It can start off-Broadway similar to what Merrily is doing or perhaps have city center encores host it for a week just to see demand similar to what happened with Into the Woods.

[Ke3]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 2:58pm

I've seen Keke's name thrown around before but I think she has too much charisma to successfully transition from Louise to Gypsy. Even in small roles Keke stands out so it would be a bit unbelievable that somebody this effortlessly commanding would be playing second fiddle to June.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 3:01pm

g.d.e.l.g.i. said: "It was not just aimed at white audiences who couldn't accept an integrated cast. It was creating job opportunities for performers of color, period."

Yes DOLLY created numerous jobs for performers of color, but with that specific production Merrick was doing it as a gimmick. He didn't feel he could justify Pearl Bailey and Cab Calloway playing Dolly and Horace in a mixed-race cast. Merrick's justification was financial, not about job-creation. I would be interested in hearing how performers of color felt about their experience in that company, with that leadership, and the positive & negative audience responses, which no doubt was complex & nuanced.

Merrick wanted to do the same on 42ND STREET later in its run, again as a stunt, but that never happened. Could have been interesting...Lena Horne or Eartha Kitt as Dorothy Brock?

[pethian]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 3:17pm

verywellthensigh said: "It would be more interesting to see an original musical about Black female performers in vaudeville than giving Gypsy its umpteen zillionth revival with an identity gimmick."

 

No less than August Wilson agrees with you (and ErmengardeStopSniveling). I remember reading his comments on this subject a while back basically saying the same thing. He didn't want to see stunt BIPOC casting or, he went further, even color-blind casting but rather color-conscious casting--plays  written about or include the experience of characters of color.

 

[1stGent]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 3:24pm

LaChanze and Celia Rose Gooding have expressed interest in starring together in a production of Gypsy. Could Gooding bring in the Trekkies? Who knows? But I’d love to see that dream project come to fruition.

Vanessa Williams with Zendaya would also get my money.

[CreatureKitchen]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 3:33pm

My understanding of color-conscious casting is that it goes beyond writing roles for POC, though? It also includes being thoughtful about how casting a POC in a usually white role will impact the story. Will it add layers? Are there certain things that need to be addressed dramaturgically to make the casting make sense? Could it have possible negative connotations (ie. if you cast the villain of the show with a black actor and everyone else is white)?

[Ke3]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 3:38pm

CreatureKitchen said: "Could it have possible negative connotations (ie. if you cast the villain of the show with a black actor and everyone else is white)?"

Something the latest Carousel revival did not take into account when casting that show.

[raddersons]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 3:42pm

I don’t know if it needs to be all black, but a version with three leads of color trying to break into very white showbiz industry is a great take and interesting way to make the material feel current without actually having to make many (any?) changes. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 3:58pm

raddersons said: "I don’t know if it needs to be all black, but a version with three leads of color trying to break into very white showbiz industry is a great take and interesting way to make the material feel current without actually having to make many (any?) changes."

I think a version where Rose & family are people of color, but Herbie is white (or white-passing) also could be an interesting statement, as he is trying to get ahead... I don't know if it would be seen as "white-savior" (probably not, since he ultimately leaves).

[joevitus]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 4:41pm

g.d.e.l.g.i. said: "As an industry pro, I marvel at movies and TV shows, and even theater, where virtually the entire cast is white, yet no one bats an eyelash over it; producers, writers, etc., are very rarely called out as (even unintentionally) racist for this phenomenon. At all. This cultural inertia is seen, whether stated explicitly or not, as the norm."

Most people don't bat an eye because the majority of people in this country (and likely all countries) self-segregate. It happens for different reasons--a virtually all-white neighborhood doesn't exist for the exact same reasons that Black kids tend to sit at the same lunch table in any given high school--but it happens. So when people see a show with mostly white, Black, Asian casts, or casts made mostly of any other minority, I think they see it as pretty much approximating reality. I certainly wasn't thinking as I watched Uncoupled on Netflix about whether the gay vs. straight cast members was statistically realistic for a contemporary upper class Manhattan setting. I was watching a show set primarily in the gay community, so I expected (and got) a mostly gay cast.

So I don't think criticizing lack of diversity in Broadway shows has much to do with demanding more realistic casting choices. Indeed, no one in here (including me) is going to condemn Hadestown or Hamilton for having a statistically unrealistic majority of people of color, or claim that this is a fraudulent view of reality. But many here probably are going to condemn a revival of a classic show that doesn't make a point of casting a number of roles with people of color, despite these shows generally taking place in historical periods where a person who belongs to a minority would not have been part of the societal group the musical focuses on. Similarly, they will likely not condemn casting a person of color as a member of a family otherwise otherwise comprised of white people, despite that patent unreality.

Because this discussion is never really about what is realistic or reflective of the world in which the show was created, or even the world of today. It's about an ambition for more equality on Broadway and determination to squash racism. Both of which are great ambitions, but neither of which really reflects how life is led, even today. 

Personally, unless you are doing a show with a concept, like The Wiz, I think the idea of an all-Black anything is just as much a backward step as an all-white cast. I also think most shows today clearly do have diverse casting, so there really isn't an issue that needs to be corrected here. We don't need an all-Black Gypsy. But an Audra-led revival might be amazing. I can't think of any classic revival that wouldn't benefit from her presence. Am I the only one who loves her on the 110 in the Shade revival recording? I could easily have imagined her being cast as Marion opposite Hugh Jackman in The Music Man. Because what should matter most on Broadway isn't realism but talent--and hopefully the continual display of great talent from people of color will have an impact on the reality of the people who attend the shows and/or own the recordings. 

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 8:24pm

Sweet Jesus, the level of Pollyanna... I'd love to live in your world, my man.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 8:35pm

Going back a few years, Leslie Uggams would have made a terrific Rose.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 8:42pm

Dollypop said: "Going back a few years, Leslie Uggams would have made a terrific Rose."

She did it in 2014 –– at age 70 –– in Connecticut.

[ManOfLaMuncha]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 9:16pm

ChgoTheatreGuy said: "To me, it seems odd that as many revivals we have had for the musical "Gypsy", we have never had an all-black version of the show. I know that there, and are today many Black singers that could pull this off, even if one of the young up and coming girl singers would be interested.

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But in this instance, this is about a real "white" family....I mean it's not all fiction. I'm sure they doctored Gypsy Rose Lee's story a bit.

[joevitus]

Posted: 12/18/22 at 9:44pm

g.d.e.l.g.i. said: "Sweet Jesus, the level of Pollyanna... I'd love to live in your world, my man."

It takes a unique person to say recognizing self-segregation is a "Pollyanna" vision of the world. What I said was the world is still very imperfect, we haven't achieved a completely integrated society, so most people aren't shocked by any production being dominated by one racial group to the general exclusion of others. That could be looked at as a criticism of our society, as much as anything. 

If you think it's Pollyannaish to suggest people can have their outlooks changed by seeing shows where anyone of any race can be cast in a role, because talent matters more than race, then I can only guess you don't think art has any influence.

Which is ironic, as I'm pretty sure as your growing up as a Jesus Christ Superstar fan, and have constantly had the image of an integrated Gospel story in your head, has had a lot to do with the positions you now hold about wanting to see more racial equality in casting across tv, movies and theater. Do you consider yourself a Pollyanna for holding this position? 

There's no great idealism in my post. It's mostly pragmatic, with some hopefulness for the future. But no absurd idealism to justify a Pollyanna accusation.