Mrs. Doubtfire is gonna get protested- Page 5

[JBroadway]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 8:26am

Impeach2017 said: "Only women (trans or cis) should be allowed to dress in women's clothing? And only men (trans or cis) should be allowed to dress in men's clothing? Otherwise, it is an affront to the trans community? And the trans community wants to be the ultimate decider of what constitutes men's or women's attire and when it is notacceptable? Questions, questions."


Jeez, people on this board sure do love a straw-man argument. 
 

dramamama611 said: “What does the Trans Community think of drag?  I'm truly asking.”

I discussed this briefly on the previous page with user GiantsInTheSky. See posts 67 & 68. 

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 9:09am

John Adams said: "You've confused "disguised" with "transgendered". And FTR, neither should Robin Williams' character be confused as being "in drag".

joevitus is one who acknowledged the difference when he wrote, "Further, whileI guess if a man really snuck into his children'shome in disguise to live under another identity, it would be all kinds of intrusive/abusive/disturbing,this isn't life, it's comedy." It's a pedantic point (on my part), but Williams' character didn't sneak into the children's home, though. The intention ofjoevitus' larger point is more valuable.

I find it very disappointing and saddening that you would create and defendthis negatively framed thread based on that lack of understanding. I don't wish you to add insult to injury by asking for any clarification, but the phrase, "actual necessary issue" has little meaning, if any.

RE: "are you a cis person defending itwhen you're not on the receiving end of transphobia": You haven't clarified what the pronoun 'it'references (the entire movie? Some specific action, or idea contained within the plot?), so your context is lost. As for "transphobia", there is/are no example(s) I can find in the movie. This isn't a move that's about, or references any members of the transgendered community. Because that's true, it makes absolutely no difference whether/not I have been on the "receiving end of transphobia". It also makes no differencewhether/not I am cis-gendered.

It's my opinion that you're bandwagoning (jumping on the "I support the transgendered community" train) without having sufficient knowledge of the community's issues, or who they really are."

 

if you were talking to me at any point there…my point isn’t stupid or anything. It was a genuine question that people are saying “aw it’s a heartwarming story about a man who wants to get his family back”-yes, but lying and disguised as a woman. Lying to them. There’s a whole section in the movie when they’re trying to decide what his disguise should be that I’m thinking would not go over well if the movie were made today? Maybe: I don’t know. I’m just saying I don’t get why people are so okay with the lying and scheming. 

 

[unclevictor]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 9:13am

There’s going to be zero protests. Ok? This thread is ridiculous and stupid.

[thedrybandit]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 9:17am

hearthemsing22 said: "So everyone is okay with the fact that the character dressed as woman to lie and deceive his family? I’m confused."

I mean now you're either clearly trolling or can't separate a fictional movie/musical comedy from reality.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 9:59am

But that’s the problem. Whether that particular person is trolling or not, there’s countless other (primarily younger) people out there who lack the ability to understand what fiction is and that’s actually disturbing.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 11:12am

thedrybandit said: "hearthemsing22 said: "So everyone is okay with the fact that the character dressed as woman to lie and deceive his family? I’m confused."

I mean now you're either clearly trolling or can't separate a fictional movie/musical comedy from reality."

I mean if that’s how your cold heart wants to interpret it. Then sure. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 11:12am

It's not age-related and the reality is that only a miniscule fraction of people of any age will even know that this show ever existed. It is well to remember that everything that is fiction is not above criticism. The OP's failure in this thread is that there is no foundation for the assertions and thus it is intellectually irresponsible. Not separating reality from fiction requires a tether to at least one. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 12:46pm

hearthemsing22 said: "So everyone is okay with the fact that the character dressed as woman to lie and deceive his family? I’m confused."

Yup. 100%. You don't seem to understand what a musical comedy is. Or even what a funny movie is. But that's okay, you don't have to see it. Problem solved. 

 

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 12:52pm

hearthemsing22 said: Maybe: I don’t know. I’m just saying I don’t get why people are so okay with the lying and scheming.

"

Does this mean that I support cannibalism because I enjoy Sweeney Todd?  Or that I support organized crime because I enjoyed The Godfather?  Or that I think Dick Cheney is a tremendous person because I liked the film Vice?

No one here is saying lying and scheming is okay.  We're saying that just because a musical depicts it happening doesn't mean that the musical is saying it's okay.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 1:16pm

Broadway61004 said: "Does this mean that I support cannibalism because I enjoy Sweeney Todd? Or that I support organized crime because I enjoyed The Godfather? Or that I think Dick Cheney is a tremendous person because I liked the film Vice?

No one here is saying lying and scheming is okay. We're saying that just because a musical depicts it happening doesn't mean that the musical is saying it's okay."

All of this is correct, of course. What's lost in all this nonsense we have trudged through is that not every portrayal in every musical (or other show, book, film, etc) is ok. Some are exploitive, some are abusive, and so on. Those are all proper subjects for intelligent discussion. The criticism of the OP in this thread is that there was no foundation for anything stated, and thus no basis for such a discussion. So many logical fallacies in the OP's post (and some others) that it makes the mind spin. 

[dylan mcquaid]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 1:31pm

If we keep going down this road this world is going to turn into something really strange. Is a man dressing as an old woman truly offensive? People really need to start picking and choosing what needs to be important because not everything is.

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 3:34pm

I should rename this thread 

"Come post your defensive straw man argument" 

It's getting almost campy haha

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 3:48pm

The point you think you’re making is…not there.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 4:02pm

You should rename this thread to delete.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 4:20pm

Can’t wait for the Some Like it Hot meltdown.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 9:38pm

SouthernCakes said: "thedrybandit said: "hearthemsing22 said: "So everyone is okay with the fact that the character dressed as woman to lie and deceive his family? I’m confused."

I mean now you're either clearly trolling or can't separate a fictional movie/musical comedy from reality."

I mean if that’s how your cold heart wants to interpret it. Then sure."

LOL my cold heart-good one. That’s funny! My heart is a lot warmer than the trolls on here who use a screen as an excuse to be mean to people. 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 9:39pm

Oh, good. This sh*t was bumped.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 9:41pm

Yeah. So how about instead of personal attacks on people that don’t accomplish anything, people just comment on the actual topic? I will if you will. :)

[MattieIce2018]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 10:09pm

On the note of actually discussing the show, when I saw it last March I was unaware of any controversy around the production as I really hadn’t followed anything about Tootsie. At that time I could understand the aspects of the story that could have been problematic but thought the show handled it well.

I’ll add that as someone who is not trans it’s not my place to decide what is and isn’t problematic, but when I see the show again next month I’m interested to see if my opinion has changed at all now that I’m more aware of some of the arguments made. The difficult part of a thread like this, right now, is that so few people have actually seen the show, and won’t for at least 29 more days.

Updated On: 9/22/21 at 10:09 PM

[Zion24]

Posted: 9/22/21 at 11:27pm

hearthemsing22 said: "So everyone is okay with the fact that the character dressed as woman to lie and deceive his family? I’m confused."

I am. Yes. Its a story, and I am an adult.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 9/23/21 at 8:16am

JDonaghy4 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "So everyone is okay with the fact that the character dressed as woman to lie and deceive his family? I’m confused."

I am. Yes. Its a story, and I am an adult."

Really. Good! So am I. And as such I’m able to move on and disagree with people respectfully. So glad everyone else here is also able to do that since they’re also adults, I’m guessing? Good! 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/23/21 at 10:04am

hearthemsing22 said: "Really. Good! So am I. And as such I’m able to move on and disagree with people respectfully. So glad everyone else here is also able to do that since they’re also adults, I’m guessing? Good!"

Now work on moving on beyond irrelevant posts borne of your having stubbed you toe in another thread by making comments with which others disagreed or that they corrected. People are not expected to remain silent when they read something that's wrong. That's not respect. Respect is honoring truth.

[Zion24]

Posted: 9/23/21 at 11:35am

hearthemsing22 said: "JDonaghy4 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "So everyone is okay with the fact that the character dressed as woman to lie and deceive his family? I’m confused."

I am. Yes. Its a story, and I am an adult."

Really. Good! So am I. And as such I’m able to move on and disagree with people respectfully. So glad everyone else here is also able to do that since they’re also adults, I’m guessing? Good!"

See, you claim you are an adult, but then you ask a question, and when I answer it, you complain that I am not moving on and disagreeing with you in acceptable fashion.

You asked if we are all OK with something- the answer is, of course we are, but if you are not OK with characters "lying and deceiving their families!!!!!" then... don't go see the show with all the lies and deceit. *That* would be the adult way of disagreeing with something and "moving on."

[Dolly80]

Posted: 9/23/21 at 12:04pm

I’m more concerned that this show looks and sounds terrible

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 9/23/21 at 12:53pm

hearthemsing22 said: "Yeah. So how about instead of personal attacks on people that don’t accomplish anything, people just comment on the actual topic? I will if you will. :) "

Actually several of us have directly responded to your comment with our actual comments on the actual topic, yet you continue to ignore those. Just because someone proposes a counter argument to what you said doesn't mean they're not responding and only trolling. Nor does it mean they are right and you are wrong or vice versa. It's called a conversation.