White American Theater: #WeSeeYou

[BJR]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 11:44am

I'm surprised no one has posting about this yet. On Instagram and Twitter, it began going viral last night. An Open letter signed by 300 BIPOC (Black, Indigenous and People of Color) theatre artists calling out White American Theatre for their acts of institutional racism.

Some very prominent names and a very powerful letter.

Here's the Playbill article:

300 BIPOC Theatre Artists Call for Reckoning in the White American Theatre

Opinion has moved very fast in this country on this issue and this time feel different. I hope we finally see real change.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 11:54am

It was posted about 11 hours ago.

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?page=3&thread=1122675

[uncageg]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 11:57am

It was posted in another thread but from an IG or twiiter account. So there was no link to the original. Thanks for posting this. I think a lot of people just assume we are all on twitter or IG. Some of us are not so at times can's see these. And as a rule these days, I don't share anything unless there is a link to it. I won't share screenshots from those accounts when my friends post them unless I can find the original source.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 12:14pm

You don't need to be on Instagram to read a linked post. It was very relevant since they all posted it at the same time and it was posted before it was written about on websites like Playbill, etc. 

[A Director]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 3:54pm

What a powerful letter. I agree with it!

[RoyiG]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 4:15pm

An amazing letter! Love to see it. Thank you for sharing :)

[JSquared2]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 4:46pm

Sutton Ross said: "You don't need to be on Instagram to read a linked post. It was very relevant since they all posted it at the same time and it was posted before it was written about on websites like Playbill, etc."

You seem to be missing the point.  It's an important letter -- and if it's repeated in another thread, so f""king what??  There used to be 30 separate threads going on about stage dooring.

 

[JBroadway]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 5:15pm

joevitus said: "It's absurd.

And no, I'm not racist or okay with racism. But the statement throws shade with out any meaningful call to action and assumes people are abstract entities. 

Never have we had more people of color involved in theater, and a lot of people want even more opportunities and greater equality. But you can't demand this from "white Broadway theater" the way you can, say, demand an employer  recognize a union. Because your employer is an actual flesh and blood person who can listen and respond in the company's name. "What American theater" is an abstraction that can't do anything. It isn't a company. It has no address. It isn't an actual thing beyond the purposes of rhetoric used here.

Replace "white" with "Jewish" (which would be more specifically accurate in most cases) and you see it for the petty bullying and bigotry it represents."

 

A few things about this:

1. Just because there are more opportunities than ever doesn't mean that the artists aren't being mistreated and devalued within those work opportunities. 

2. Just because there are more opportunities than ever doesn't mean that there isn't still a massive power imbalance still to be addressed. 

3. Could the statement use more specificity? Maybe. You're right that it doesn't specifically lay out steps to improve. But it does point out a lot of specific things that are currently being done wrong, and it doesn't take a whole lot of extrapolation to figure out how to work against those things. 

4. As for the target being too general - in the long run, that might be true. But for this moment, and this statement, I think the intention is to raise a broad awareness within the community that these things are happening virtually everywhere. And even if every one of these issues isn't happening everywhere, every single theatrical institution needs to do the work to figure out what their own blindspots are. Specificity will come later when these individual institutions begin doing that work, and this is a call to action for them to do that work. 

5. The majority of Jews - at least in NY and in America as a whole - are white. As such, we (as I myself am a white Jew) are capable of participating in systematic racism. The fact that many of the white people in theatre are Jewish is irrelevant in this case, because their cultural conditioning as Jewish people is not what is causing us to perpetuate racism. It's our social conditioning as white people. This is called intersectionality. In the same way that a white woman can be racist even though she herself can also be a victim of oppression in the form of sexism. 

6. Calling out white people and white institutions is simply not bigotry. I understand why you think that - after all, shouldn't any kind of broad statement based on group identity be considered bigotry? In theory, that logic makes sense, but it ignores the nuances of the reality we're currently living in. We are talking about systems put in place by white people that unfairly favor white people. And we are talking about social conditioning that causes many well-intentioned, kind, empathetic white people, to uphold these racist systems, and say racist things, simply because they aren't paying attention. And this kind of movement, and this statement, are trying to get people to bay attention to their own behavior and their own institutions. I'm sorry to say that you are currently one of those people are not paying attention. I beg you to please open your mind and your try to understand that. 

EDIT FOR MODS: I realize now that you deleted Joevitus' post, which means you'll probably want to delete mine to be consistent. But please leave it because I really hope it can act as a learning tool for Joevitus and others with the same mindset. 

Updated On: 6/9/20 at 05:15 PM

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 5:23pm

Really amazing points, JBroadway. Mods, thanks for deleting his post but keeping this one, it's incredibly important. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 6:48pm

I genuinely can't believe they deleted that. Guess alternative opinions are not allowed here. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 7:09pm

JBroadway said: "joevitus said: "It's absurd.

And no, I'm not racist or okay with racism. But the statement throws shade with out any meaningful call to action and assumes people are abstract entities.

Never have we had more people of color involved in theater, and a lot of people want even more opportunities and greater equality. But you can't demand this from "white Broadway theater" the way you can, say, demand an employer recognize a union. Because your employer is an actual flesh and blood person who can listen and respond in the company's name. "What American theater" is an abstraction that can't do anything. It isn't a company. It has no address. It isn't an actual thing beyond the purposes of rhetoric used here.

Replace "white" with "Jewish" (which would be more specifically accurate in most cases) and you see it for the petty bullying and bigotry it represents."



A few things about this:

1. Just because there are more opportunities than ever doesn't mean that the artists aren't being mistreated and devalued within those work opportunities.

2. Just because there are more opportunities than ever doesn't mean that there isn't still a massive power imbalance still to be addressed.

3. Could the statement use more specificity? Maybe. You're right that it doesn't specifically lay out steps to improve. But it does point out a lot of specific things that are currently being done wrong, and it doesn't take a whole lot of extrapolation to figure out how to work against those things.

4. As for the target being too general - in the long run, thatmight be true.But for this moment, and this statement, I think the intention is to raise a broad awareness within the community that these things are happening virtually everywhere. And even if every one of these issues isn't happening everywhere, every single theatrical institution needs to do the work to figure out what their own blindspots are. Specificity will come later when these individual institutions begin doing that work, and this is a call to action for them to do that work.

5. The majority of Jews - at least in NY and in America as a whole - are white. As such, we (as I myself am a white Jew) are capable of participating in systematic racism. The fact that many of the white people in theatre are Jewish is irrelevantin this case, because their culturalconditioning as Jewish people is not what is causing us to perpetuate racism. It's our social conditioning as white people. This is called intersectionality. In the same way that a white woman can be racist even though she herself can also be a victim of oppression in the form of sexism.

6. Calling out white people and white institutions is simply not bigotry. I understand why you think that - after all, shouldn't any kind of broad statement based on group identity be considered bigotry? In theory, that logic makes sense, but it ignores the nuances of the reality we're currently living in. We are talking about systems put in place by white people that unfairly favorwhite people. And we are talking about social conditioning that causes many well-intentioned, kind, empathetic white people, touphold these racist systems, and say racist things, simply because they aren't paying attention. And this kind of movement, and this statement, are trying to get people to bay attention to their own behavior and their own institutions.I'm sorry to say that you are currently one of those people are not paying attention. I beg you to please open your mind and your try to understand that.

EDIT FOR MODS: I realize now that you deleted Joevitus' post, which means you'll probably want to delete mine to be consistent. But please leave it because I really hope it can act as a learning tool for Joevitus and others with the same mindset."

A LEARNING TOOL? Dude, I'm not your son, nor your student. I appreciated your post until I got to that. I don't need a learning tool from you. I've known about how wrongly minorities are treated in this country for most of the 50 years of my life. I TEACH IT. My guess is if I try to refute your points about one issue, this post will be deleted too. So great: it looks like you win because you get to say what you want, but I don't get to say what I want. You realize that's how Trump wants things arranged, too, right? Only the viewpoint he endorses should be countenanced? 

The rhetoric in the post which inspired this thread was aggressive but vague, demanding but without an agenda.  It is truly worthless. It will do no good, nor inspire much of anything. I'm old enough to have seen this before, and I know how it plays out. For about twenty seconds white people play along and adopt white guilt, and then they get bored, or the message hits too close to home, and then things go back to exactly the way they were.

We saw this in the 1970's. There will be a spat of white guilt and "whites need to do some accounting and say that they know they have done wrong," but in terms of actual practices, little will change with this approach. Hairshirts don't forment change: they lock you into your current pattern. 

And I should be able to say that without being censored. It's silly to say the message is too powerfully meant to be worthy of criticism. How else can ideas be evaluated? You can't just make a declaration and have it accomplished by fiat. That isn't how things work. This is one of the stupidest decisions ever. Even if they are upset one part of my argument, they could have removed that line and left the rest. 

Really sad, Broadway World. And on a truly important subject where a dialogue, not a monologue, is needed.

Updated On: 6/9/20 at 07:09 PM

[JBroadway]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 7:25pm

I genuinely apologize for making you feel condescended to, but really there is no shame in learning no matter how old you are, and no matter who is doing the teaching. Someone shouldn't have to be your parent or your teacher for you to try to learn from what they have to say. And someone trying to help you shouldn't be seen as them talking down to you, but I apologize if my wording amplified the sense of condescension.

But now that I've apologized - and I genuinely am sorry - please don't dismiss everything I said because of that one comment. 

You make a good point about what people have been calling "burnout" - you're right that we frequently see movements like this make small changes, followed by people settling back into their old, harmful habits. That's definitely a concern. I've actually seen a lot of posts in my activist circles of people warning of exactly that phenomenon. And I'll say I'm guilty of it too - I'm really active when issues like this get raised, but then I get complacent when the buzz dies down. This is something that I have to work on, and we all have to work on. It seems to me that this time might be different though, only because (a) it's a larger movement and (b) people (in my circles at least) are already talking about ways to prevent "burnout" and make sure we don't forget about all this once it's no longer a "hot button topic." People are really trying to create lasting change this time, and if we can put the effort in, it's possible. 

This statement is just one small piece of that. It isn't going to solve things by itself, but by it can create awareness of the work that needs to be done going forward. 

For what it's worth, I agree that your original post shouldn't have been deleted, and I hope that you do respond to what I said point by point, so we can have a civil, productive discussion. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/9/20 at 9:00pm

JBroadway said: "I genuinely apologize for making you feel condescended to, but really there is no shame in learning no matter how old you are, and no matter who is doing the teaching. Someone shouldn't have to be your parent or your teacher for you to try to learn from what they have to say. And someone trying to help you shouldn't be seen as them talking down to you, but I apologize if my wording amplified the sense of condescension.

But now that I've apologized - and I genuinely am sorry - please don't dismiss everything I said because of that one comment.

You make a good point about what people have been calling "burnout" - you're right that we frequently see movements like this make small changes, followed by people settling back into their old, harmful habits. That's definitely a concern. I've actually seen a lot of posts in my activist circles of people warning of exactly that phenomenon. And I'll say I'm guilty of it too - I'm really active when issues like this get raised, but then I get complacent when the buzz dies down. This is something that I have to work on, and we all have to work on. It seems to me that this time might be different though, only because (a) it's a larger movement and (b) people (in my circles at least) are already talking about ways to prevent "burnout" and make sure we don't forget about all this once it's no longer a "hot button topic." People are really trying to create lasting change this time, and if we can put the effort in, it's possible.

This statement is just one small piece of that. It isn't going to solve things by itself, but by it can create awareness of the work that needs to be done going forward.

For what it's worth, I agree that your original post shouldn't have been deleted, and I hope that you do respond to what I said point by point, so we can have a civil, productive discussion."

I apologize in turn. I like your posts. You are a thoughtful person.

I guess my problem is--you can't just demand things in an angry tone and get them. That's what that statement seemed to be doing, and what it seemed it was being cheered for doing. I expect young people to be all on board for that. I also know how it plays out. And frankly, it offends me. It's bullying and demeaning, and no writing addressed that way to anyone is going to get my approval. I don't take reduction of human dignity any less lightly that the people who composed the missive do. 

As far as point-by point goes:

1. I totally agree with you here, so nothing to argue with.

2. There is a massive power imbalance, but it can't be demanded away. This is, of course, how systemic racism works. Because for centuries black people were barely allowed in theaters or on the stage, all the people with real power are white, and it's that much harder for black artists to get a foothold, even if people want them to have that foothold. Because the system was devised when racism called the shots. But there's no way to change that other than through the slow process of more people of color gaining more ground and they and white people helping more color of people in turn.

3. While the statement does point to real wrongs, by not specificying targets, it paints the theater as collectively in favor of these wrongs. This is honestly like some racist white guy deciding to judge all black people from the felons he's heard are in prison. And some of the arguments are just false. There is not, in today's theater, any cabal of whites keeping blacks out. Nor has "white theater" (again, what does that term even mean realistically?) been pretending to ignore black people. How can we look at all the black people cast in shows, playwrights having their work done, composers having their scores heard--and nominated--and winning Tonys--and say that blacks are being ignored? I mean you can hashtag OscarSoWhite, but you can't create that hashtag for Broadway if you're being at all honest.

4. This isn't broad awareness. It's paiting with a broad brush. In Chasing Amy, the faux militant black comic book artist points at what are actually his white friends and tells a young black child "They the devil." That's pretty much all is statement is accomplishing here. Because there is no distinction. And there are a lot of distinctions (which doesn't mean excuses or evasions) to be made.

5. Just not touching this one. Sure my message will be deleted if I do.

6. Imagine some white guy or organization, or heck any non-black person or organization saying "Black theater, I see what you're doing, and this stops now!" It would be unthinkable and blatantly racist. Because it would assume someone other that black theater members can speak to black experience or thought, and because it would assume all black people are identical rather than individuals. It would rob them of their humanity. That's just what this statement does. 

For the record, I work both for and with and I teach far more minorities than I do whites. I work in the most racially diverse college in the United States (for real). I am acutely aware of the indignities and abuses minorities face, and I oppose them. I do my part to give my students what tools I can to more successfully oppose those indignities and abuses. But this faux Black Panthers/Nation of Islam rhetoric does not and will not work. It may feel great to read in print, feel empowering to people of color, and fell like a necessary check for (a few) liberal white people. But this sort of approach isn't what's going to get more black people in the theater. 

Passions are high right now and people are letting off steam, often in unproductive ways. I guess I let off steam in an unproductive way here today as well. I don't want to see people of color winding up with white people going along for a bit of self-laceration, followed shortly by the realization: "Well I'm not really one of the bad guys." Followed by  "I noted it. I wore the right colored ribbon to the cermony. I'm done."

That doesn't help people of color at all.

Updated On: 6/9/20 at 09:00 PM

[A Director]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 12:52am

joevitus said: "

I guess my problem is--you can't just demand things in an angry tone and get them. That's what that statement seemed to be doing, and what it seemed it was being cheered for doing. I expect young people to be all on board for that. I also know how itplays out. And frankly, it offends me. It's bullying and demeaning, and no writing addressed that way to anyone is going to get my approval. I don't take reduction of human dignity any less lightly that the people who composed the missive do.

> Many of the BIPOC artists who signed the letter have long careers in the theatre. I'm 71 and I'm on board with it. Your approval?  I'd be surprised it the signers are waiting for your approval?

Because the system was devised when racism called the shots.But there's no way to change that other than through the slow process of more people of color gaining more ground and they and white people helping more color of people in turn.

> How slow is it?  Five years, ten years, etc? Of course, there is a way to change it. All a LORT theatre has to do is to begin the process. Yes, it will take time, but one step forward is all that is needed. For example, the Oregon Shakespeare Festival was founded in 1935. For many seasons, it was rare to find a BIPOC person onstage or backstage.  This slowly changed. About 15 years ago, the Board of Directors decided to make a major change. It was a slow process, but they took the first step. In the following years, more and more BIPOC people have been hired both onstage and off.  Last summer, Nataki Garrett, a Black woman, was hired as the new Artistic Director. There were ten plays on the 2020 season bill. Four were written by a BPOC.. Two plays were commissioned by the OSF.  Of the ten plays, nine were going to be directed by a BPOC.. Of the ten directors, six directors are women. Designers for these shows are BIPOC.  In all the shops, there are BIPOC. In many other areas of the OSF, there are BIPOC, some head departments. And the OSF has done non-traditional casting for years.  The change began with one step.

 How can we look at all the black people cast in shows, playwrights having their work done, composers having their scores heard--and nominated--and winning Tonys--and say that blacks are being ignored? I mean you can hashtag OscarSoWhite, but you can't create that hashtagfor Broadway if you're being at all honest.

> WOW. Black artists have won Tonys. This doesn't mean black artists are not being ignored.

4. This isn't broad awareness. It's paiting with a broad brush. In Chasing Amy, the faux militant black comic book artist points at what are actually his white friends and tells a young black child "They the devil." That's pretty much all is statement is accomplishing here. Because there is no distinction. And there are a lot of distinctions (which doesn't mean excuses or evasions) to be made.

 Imagine some whiteguy or organization, or heck any non-black person or organization saying "Black theater, I see what you're doing, and this stops now!" It would be unthinkable and blatantly racist. Because it would assume someone other that black theater members can speak to black experience or thought, and because it would assume all black people are identical rather than individuals. It would rob them of their humanity.That's just what this statement does.

> This is an example of false equivalency.

For the record, I work both for and with and I teach far more minorities than I do whites. I work in the most racially diverse collegein the United States (for real). I am acutely aware of the indignities and abuses minorities face, and I opposethem. I do my part to give my students whattools I can to more successfully oppose those indignities and abuses. But this faux Black Panthers/Nation of Islam rhetoric does not and will not work. It may feel great to read in print, feelempowering to people of color, and fell like a necessary checkfor (a few) liberalwhite people. But this sort of approachisn't what's going to get more black people in the theater.

> Would you care to name the most racially diverse college in the United Sates? Faux Black Panthers/Nation of Islam rhetoric?  What? Yes, the letter is bold and powerful. It got people's attention.  I would not be surprised if it was written in response to theaters rushing to declare, "Black Lives Matter."  Do the points in the letter apply to all theatres in the United States? No!  For some theatres, yes! For other theatres, a few comments apply. I believe the letter is a first step with more details to follow.  IMHO, the signers are saying "It's time to change your words into actions."

Change is in the air. I've lived long enough to know, the call for change could go answered for years. On the other hand, I'll will give my support to BIPOC.  I will shut up and listen.

 

[j.garcia]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 7:54am

You keep raising the straw man argument that if white people did this, it would be considered racist. The fact that you keep returning to this point makes me consider that you don’t really get the point at all. 

Whenever I need to figure out if it something is racist, I use the formula discrimination + power = racism. So when someone is discriminated against based on their race and that discrimination feeds into reinforcing a power structure. The power structure in America has always flowed from darkest skin (least power) to lighter skin (most power). I’m shocked that a longtime theater fan is being so willfully blind to the racism that is present in our community. 
 

You roll out your credentials as if that’s some sort of shield to criticism. It isn’t. Frankly, I’m disappointed that an educator would be so resistant to being educated. Your posts here show you have a lot to learn and this board isn’t the place for it. you reacted with a lot of anger toward this letter, and immediately got very defensive and projected that onto to letter, reading it as Black Panther language. Maybe take a step back and listen.
 

 

 


 

[TrChSpHa]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 8:07am

No one is exempt from learning; you teaching and working with BIPoC is moot and doesn't give you the slightest clue of their our experiences nor why the anger and passion in this letter is justified. 

[BJR]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 11:14am

JBroadway, great post.

And it's entirely true that one set of behaviors can be common in the business (if rude or callous or manipulative), but not be racist among white people. But when race enters the same experience, it is racist.

Think of how if a male executive tells a male underling to shut up, and then imagine he tells a female underling to shut up. It would be impossible in the second case to say there was no misogyny. (Perhaps if you'd had the two examples side by side, but that's not how life works.) It is the responsibility of those in the workplace - especially those with the power, but limited to them - to be aware of their actions in every context.

Some sets of the complaints are deeply racist and indeed happen. And some sets are bad behavior in the business that when paired with other instances of racism and the systemic racism throughout society and the industry, are added on.

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 11:18am

j.garcia said: "You keep raising the straw man argument that if white people did this, it would be considered racist. The fact that you keep returning to this point makes me consider that you don’t really get the point at all.

Whenever I need to figure out if it something is racist, I use the formula discrimination + power = racism. So when someone is discriminated against based on their race and that discrimination feeds into reinforcing a power structure.The power structure in Americahas always flowed from darkest skin (least power) to lighter skin (most power). I’m shocked that a longtime theater fan is being so willfully blind to the racism that is present in our community.


You rollout your credentials as if that’s some sort of shield to criticism. It isn’t. Frankly, I’m disappointed that an educator would be so resistant to being educated. Your posts here show you have a lot to learn and this board isn’t the place for it. you reacted with a lot of anger toward this letter, and immediately got very defensive and projected that onto to letter, reading it as Black Panther language. Maybe take a step back and listen.







"

You can choose to judge me any way you want. I know me, you don't. Also, it isn't a straw man. It's plain fact. 

Updated On: 6/10/20 at 11:18 AM

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 11:26am

BJR said: "JBroadway, great post.

And it's entirely true that one set of behaviors can be common in the business (if rude or callous or manipulative), but not be racist among white people. But when race enters the same experience, it is racist.

Think of how if a male executive tells a male underling to shut up, and then imagine he tells a female underling to shut up. It would be impossible in the second case to say there was no misogyny. (Perhaps if you'd had the two examples side by side, but that's not how life works.) It is the responsibility of those in the workplace - especially those with the power, but limited to them - to be aware of their actions in every context.

Some sets of the complaints are deeply racist and indeed happen. And some sets are bad behavior in the business that when paired with other instances of racism and the systemic racism throughout society and the industry, are added on."

I don't think the logic follows through in either of your examples. If a boss does just tell people to "shut up" the boss is rude. The action doesn't become racist or sexist, just because the person of the moment being addressed is a person of color or a woman.

Play with your analogy for a moment. Say the boss is black. Do his "shut up"s become racist the moment he is addressing a person of his own race rather than a white subordinate? Are his "shuts up"s not racist addressed to whites but still are to blacks, even if he's black? Is a female boss telling a male employee to shut up okay, but does doing so to other women make her guilty of sexism? If she does it to women is it not sexist, but if done to men, it is? The logic just doesn't hold.

Behavior displayed to all people across the board can't, by definition, be prejudicial, because no prejudice is being shown. All are being treated the same. In these examples, everyone is being treated terribly, no question, but not prejudicially. 

 

Updated On: 6/10/20 at 11:26 AM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 1:39pm

@joevitus you have a great deal to learn. Today is as good a day as any to resolve to begin that experience. Right now, you sound like a poster child for whom that letter is intended. On people changing: 

"God splits the skin with a jagged thumbnail from throat to belly and then plunges a huge filthy hand in, he grabs hold of your bloody tubes and they slip to evade his grasp but he squeezes hard, he insists, he pulls and pulls till all your innards are yanked out and the pain! We can't even talk about that. And then he stuffs them back, dirty, tangled and torn. It's up to you to do the stitching." - Kushner

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 1:49pm

Yes Joe, you have a great deal to learn. Like, the first day here all you did was defend Amar and put down Alexandra. You then proceeded to invade every single thread supporting her and somehow justifying your sexist, horrifying words. When one states "Im not sexist" or "Im not racist"? When one has to repeat that a hundred times to themselves (because no one else was buying it), there is clearly some truth to it.

Nice quote, Hogan. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 2:16pm

Sutton Ross said: "Yes Joe, you have a great deal to learn. Like, the first day here all you did was defend Amar and put down Alexandra. You then proceeded to invade every single thread supporting her and somehow justifying your sexist, horrifying words. When one states "Im not sexist" or "Im not racist"?When one has to repeat that a hundred times to themselves (because no one else was buying it), there is clearly some truth to it.

Nice quote, Hogan."

You're wrong about me. I can't help your being wrong me. But you don't know me and don't seem to understand what I'm saying. And definitely don't seem to be listening to me and trying to understand.

I'm okay with that, though the condescension and assumption are a bit grating. 

 

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 2:18pm

HogansHero said: "Right now, you sound like a poster child for whom that letter is intended. On people changing:"

 

I suggest your ears may not be working effectively.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 2:39pm

Joevitus - at the risk of making you feel bombarded with criticisms, I'd like to add something else:

One of your sticking points seems to be related to the tone of the piece - that it is angry and belligerent, and therefore not respectful enough to earn them the things they're asking for, and I'd like to address that. I think if you were to ask these artists to say this in less of an "angry tone," many of them would tell you one or all of the following things (and in fact, these are all things I have heard from Black people):

1. Their anger is justified. These things have been happening for a long time, and they are sick of it. For them to express their justified anger is not disrespectful. They are the ones who have been disrespected, and they are responding with the appropriate reaction. Would you criticize someone for using an "angry tone" if they were the victim of a significant crime, and they were speaking out against the perpetrator of that crime? You may not see poor workplace treatment as on par with a major crime, but when it's happening to an entire community, over the course of decades and centuries, I think it warrants anger. 

2. As for using calmer tactics: they have already TRIED going about this in a more "calm," "gentle" way. For years, Black artists have been trying to push for more respect in the industry, and their tactics have not worked. Or as you yourself said earlier, maybe they work a little bit, but the industry makes the bare minimum progress just to appease the public, then go right back to the status quo. So if being calm and reserved hasn't worked, they have been pushed to more drastic measures like this. 

3. There is a long history of white people demeaning Black people and writing them off because they are too "angry." The stereotype of the "angry Black man" or the "angry Black woman" are frequently used to discredit their entirely justified anger. They're told that they're "over-reacting," and so they choose to ignore the content of what is actually being said. And a lot of time, they aren't even raising their voice or using disrespectful language, they're just speaking directly and firmly, but are still seen as "over-reacting." (Of course, sometimes they ARE raising for their voice, and as I said above, it's usually because their justifiably angry). As a result, many Black people feel a constant pressure in their everyday lives to present themselves as composed and reserved, for fear of being seen as a stereotype, and for fear of being dismissed off-hand. I imagine this can really fester inside them, and make them all the more frustrated, especially when their attempts to remain "calm" are ALSO met with dismissal. By criticizing their tone, you are participating in that long history of dismissal and "tone policing," as it's sometimes called. 

Updated On: 6/10/20 at 02:39 PM

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/10/20 at 2:49pm

I don't disagree with anything that you are saying. I'm sure those are exactly their reasons. My comments aren't about failing to empathize with what led to publishing that missive that way. But that doesn't mean their method will be effective.