An appeal for calm, reason and truthfulness in a crucial moment

[Theater'sBestFriend]

Posted: 3/14/20 at 5:14pm

Folks, I know chat boards can be an enjoyable and meaningful part of the theatrical experience for many. But I am starting to see posts about the Broadway shut down in response to the Coronavirus/COVID-19 pandemic in which anonymous posters are making very serious accusations of irresponsibility against others, frequently without providing evidence that their assertions are anything other than fevered speculation or wild rumor.

in normal times falsehoods can do harm to the accused. During an epidemic they may be lethal. This is because people who do the right thing and disclose an infection to others so they can protect themselves could be dissuaded from doing so if that exposes them to malicious innuendo. That could cause people to hide from stigma, creating disease reservoirs that seed further infection.

It seems to me that Broadway has been incredibly virtuous, brave and selfless in shutting down to protect the public’s health and well. They are doing so at great potential cost. It remains to be seen if Broadway will bounce back.

Epidemics are scary; I get it. I remember the early days of HIV/AIDS all too well. People behave differently during such times. Some stay honest and help each other. That got HIV and Ebola under control. If we do that here, we can do it with COVID-19 too. On the other hand, baselessly demonizing the industry during this crisis, in addition to fueling hysteria that could worsen the epidemic, might do serious harm to live theater as a institution.

I urge everyone participating on this board to consider carefully what they are posting. If you accuse someone of wrongdoing, provide your evidence. Don’t spread malicious falsehoods. During an epidemic, they can be not only damaging, but lethal.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 3/14/20 at 5:23pm

Theater'sBestFriend said: "It seems to me that Broadway has been incredibly virtuous, brave and selfless in shutting down to protect the public’s health and well. They are doing so at great potential cost. It remains to be seen if Broadway will bounce back."

You aren't serious. 

The ONLY reason performances were cancelled was because it was ordered by the Governor. Without the government-mandated restrictions, performances would have continued. Health and safety come in a distant second to profits.  And the picture on Facebook of Shubert house managers (and two Shubert execs) celebrating at a bar while leaving FOH staff uninformed and in the dark is all levels of disgusting. (I'd post it, but I don't know the rules about that kind of thing here).

 

[Theater'sBestFriend]

Posted: 3/14/20 at 5:37pm

Fosse76 said: "You aren't serious.

The ONLY reason performances were cancelled was because it was ordered by the Governor. Without the government-mandated restrictions, performances would have continued. Health and safety come in a distant second to profits. And thepicture on Facebook of Shubert house managers (and two Shubert execs) celebrating at a bar while leaving FOH staff uninformed and in the dark is all levels of disgusting. (I'd post it, but I don't know the rules about that kind of thing here).”

Please clarify: Can you prove that, or are you merely describing your perception? Are you aware of how the governor’s decision was made in close collaboration with the theatrical community, and was prompted by their request for a coordinated local public health response (in the virtual absence of a Federal one)? 

Please consider: how much money do you think the theater made off of those performances? What do you think is the likelihood that their livelihood would survive when the epidemic is over if what you are saying were true? Do you really think that they would close $1 billion industry for a few thousand dollars? You may accuse them of venality without basis, but your implication that they are that stupid is mind-boggling.

So I ask you: are you serious?
 

 

[Fosse76]

Posted: 3/14/20 at 5:46pm

Theater'sBestFriend said: "Fosse76 said: "You aren't serious.

The ONLY reason performances were cancelled was because it was ordered by the Governor. Without the government-mandated restrictions, performances would have continued. Health and safety come in a distant second to profits. And thepicture on Facebook of Shubert house managers (and two Shubert execs) celebrating at a bar while leaving FOH staff uninformed and in the dark is all levels of disgusting. (I'd post it, but I don't know the rules about that kind of thing here).”

Please clarify: Can you prove that, or are you merely describing your perception? Are you aware of how the governor’s decision was made in close collaboration with the theatrical community, and was prompted by their request for a coordinated local public health response (in the virtual absence of a Federal one)?

According to a deadline article QUOTING League president Charlotte St. Martin, "As for possible worst case scenarios – a quarantine or industry-wide shutdown – St. Martin said such extreme measures would be made by local, state or federal edict, not including individual venues or productions canceling performances due to a cast or audience member with a known exposure to the coronavirus."

Please consider: how much money do you think the theater made off of those performances? What do you think is the likelihood that their livelihood would survive when the epidemic is over if what you aresaying were true? Do you really think that they would close $1 billion industry for a few thousand dollars? You may accuse them of venalitywithout basis, but your implication that they are that stupid is mind-boggling.

So I ask you: are you serious?"

I had only heard that Disney was considering shuttering Aladdin. No other show was considering shutting down.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/14/20 at 6:04pm

This thread has taken a strange turn.

Covid is not like anything we've had to deal with in the US on such a massive scale before in our lifetimes. Luckily for everybody there are plenty of queer and ally AIDS activists from the '80s and '90s still alive to tell you how things went when we were dealing with cultural indifference over a deadly virus that was NOT spread through coughing and sneezing and hand shaking.

Our anxiety is not best suited as fuel for side squabbles.  Also TBF, it's difficult but true that we can't control what other people do even when we know EXACTLY WHAT THEY SHOULD DO. I recommend letting people say what they feel they have to say and if there's a way to gently redirect them to a topic that would alleviate their anxiety, that'd probably be great for everybody's cortisol levels.

When the dust clears after this (and that could be quite some time), we don't know what will be left standing, if anything.  Just like some theater projects came back after the 9/11 shut down and some did not.  This time out could be longer than that was. But, as New Orleans demonstrated after Katrina, the artists will be on the front lines of bringing the world back from dormancy.

 

[uncageg]

Posted: 3/14/20 at 9:14pm

Fosse76 said: "Theater'sBestFriend said: "Fosse76 said: "You aren't serious.

The ONLY reason performances were cancelled was because it was ordered by the Governor. Without the government-mandated restrictions, performances would have continued. Health and safety come in a distant second to profits. And thepicture on Facebook of Shubert house managers (and two Shubert execs) celebrating at a bar while leaving FOH staff uninformed and in the dark is all levels of disgusting. (I'd post it, but I don't know the rules about that kind of thing here).”

Please clarify: Can you prove that, or are you merely describing your perception? Are you aware of how the governor’s decision was made in close collaboration with the theatrical community, and was prompted by their request for a coordinated local public health response (in the virtual absence of a Federal one)?

According to a deadline article QUOTING League president Charlotte St. Martin,"As for possible worst case scenarios – a quarantine or industry-wide shutdown – St. Martin said such extreme measures would be made by local, state or federal edict, not including individual venues or productions canceling performances due to a cast or audience member with a known exposure to the coronavirus."

Please consider: how much money do you think the theater made off of those performances? What do you think is the likelihood that their livelihood would survive when the epidemic is over if what you aresaying were true? Do you really think that they would close $1 billion industry for a few thousand dollars? You may accuse them of venalitywithout basis, but your implication that they are that stupid is mind-boggling.

So I ask you: are you serious?"

I had only heard that Disney was considering shuttering Aladdin. No other show wasconsidering shutting down."

You really need to get some facts before you post things like that. You are way off base.

 

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 3/14/20 at 10:22pm

"It seems to me that Broadway has been incredibly virtuous, brave and selfless in shutting down to protect the public’s health and well. They are doing so at great potential cost. It remains to be seen if Broadway will bounce back."

Let's not pat them on the back too much, they did what many other entertainment/sports organizations have done. Sports like tennis canceled tournaments way before Broadway acted, so did the NBA who has suspended their season. Kevin Love of the NBA (Cleveland Cavaliers) donated $100,000 to help the workers at the arena out while they are not getting paid. Other NBA players have followed his lead and doing similar thing in the cities they play in. I have not heard a darn thing about anybody helping the Broadway theater workers who are now unemployed. If I am wrong, I will apologize.

[uncageg]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 12:07am

yankeefan7 said: ""It seems to me that Broadway has been incredibly virtuous, brave and selfless in shutting down to protect the public’s health and well. They are doing so at great potential cost. It remains to be seen if Broadway will bounce back."

Let's not pat them on the back too much, they did what many other entertainment/sports organizations have done. Sports like tennis canceled tournaments way before Broadway acted, so did the NBA who has suspended their season. Kevin Love of the NBA (Cleveland Cavaliers) donated $100,000 to help the workers at the arena out while they are not getting paid. Other NBA players have followed his lead and doing similar thing in the cities they play in. I have not heard a darn thing about anybody helping the Broadway theater workers who are now unemployed. If I am wrong, I will apologize."

That is, of course, wonderful.

Broadway has 41 "arenas" and runs 7 days a week, 8 shows a week and more employees than one arena. There is also off-Broadway. It has been less than 3 days and it is the weekend.  Let's see what happens on Monday.

 

[Broadway Joe]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 3:19am

uncageg said: "yankeefan7 said: ""It seems to me that Broadway has been incredibly virtuous, brave and selfless in shutting down to protect the public’s health and well. They are doing so at great potential cost. It remains to be seen if Broadway will bounce back."

Let's not pat them on the back too much, they did what many other entertainment/sports organizations have done. Sports like tennis canceled tournaments way before Broadway acted, so did the NBA who has suspended their season. Kevin Love of the NBA (Cleveland Cavaliers) donated $100,000 to help the workers at the arena out while they are not getting paid. Other NBA players have followed his lead and doing similar thing in the cities they play in. I have not heard a darn thing about anybody helping the Broadway theater workers who are now unemployed. If I am wrong, I will apologize."

That is, of course, wonderful.

Broadway has 41 "arenas" and runs 7 days a week, 8 shows a week and more employees than one arena. There is also off-Broadway. It has been less than 3 days and it is the weekend. Let's see what happens on Monday.

"

One Broadway theatre does not have more staff than one arena. The NBA and NHL arenas also have way more than 41(which aren't even all open anyway) since not every arena has botn and they are open several times a week because the staff also work other events at the arena, concerts, family events, other sports etc. 

[SweetLips22]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 3:56am

To add a little to what Namo was saying, at least the public can't blame this one 'on the gays'.

[iluvtheatertrash]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 5:54am

Fosse, can you please DM me the details about the Shubert execs partying?

[AlanB3]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 7:55am

If Broadway actors were making millions a year like the basketball players who are being so generous, I imagine some might be doing the same.

[uncageg]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 8:02am

Broadway Joe said: "uncageg said: "yankeefan7 said: ""It seems to me that Broadway has been incredibly virtuous, brave and selfless in shutting down to protect the public’s health and well. They are doing so at great potential cost. It remains to be seen if Broadway will bounce back."

Let's not pat them on the back too much, they did what many other entertainment/sports organizations have done. Sports like tennis canceled tournaments way before Broadway acted, so did the NBA who has suspended their season. Kevin Love of the NBA (Cleveland Cavaliers) donated $100,000 to help the workers at the arena out while they are not getting paid. Other NBA players have followed his lead and doing similar thing in the cities they play in. I have not heard a darn thing about anybody helping the Broadway theater workers who are now unemployed. If I am wrong, I will apologize."

That is, of course, wonderful.

Broadway has 41 "arenas" and runs 7 days a week, 8 shows a week and more employees than one arena. There is also off-Broadway. It has been less than 3 days and it is the weekend. Let's see what happens on Monday.

"

One Broadway theatre does not have more staff than one arena. The NBA and NHL arenas also have way more than 41(which aren't even all open anyway) since not every arena has botn and they are open several times a week because the staff also work other events at the arena, concerts, family events, other sports etc."

What you are forgetting or do not know is that it is not about single theaters. Companies own those theaters and each own more than one, for the most part. So you are talking about a lot of people. The theater owners can't just pay people at a single theater. I would think only the Hudson might be able to do that.

 

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 9:41am

"That is, of course, wonderful.
Broadway has 41 "arenas" and runs 7 days a week, 8 shows a week and more employees than one arena. There is also off-Broadway. It has been less than 3 days and it is the weekend.  Let's see what happens on Monday."

There are many different arenas in sports (30 NBA teams) and as I posted, more NBA stars from each of the teams are following Kevin Love's lead and donating money to the workers. Arenas not only have sports but they also have concerts that are being canceled. I hope you are right and maybe Monday we will see somebody step up and help the Broadway community. 

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 9:45am

"What you are forgetting or do not know is that it is not about single theaters. Companies own those theaters and each own more than one, for the most part. So you are talking about a lot of people. The theater owners can't just pay people at a single theater. I would think only the Hudson might be able to do that."

My point when I started this conversation in this thread was pointing out that a NBA player started the ball rolling and donated $100,000 to help and this led to other players in different cities to do the same thing. With all the Hollywood millionaire actors, producers etc, how about stepping up and helping the Broadway community in a time of need. The clock is ticking IMO.

Updated On: 3/15/20 at 09:45 AM

[uncageg]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 10:20am

yankeefan7 said: ""What you are forgetting or do not know is that it is not about single theaters. Companies own those theaters and each own more than one, for the most part. So you are talking about a lot of people. The theater ownerscan't just pay people at a single theater. I would think only the Hudson might be able to do that."

My point when I started this conversation in this thread was pointing out that a NBA player started the ball rolling and donated $100,000 to help and this led to other players in different cities to do the same thing. With all the Hollywood millionaire actors, producers etc, how about stepping up and helping the Broadway community in a time of need. The clock is ticking IMO."

Ok, with that clarification I agree with you. Especially since a lot of those actors have graced the stages of Broadway and some more than once or twice.

 

[Impossible2]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 10:37am

Fosse76 said: "Theater'sBestFriend said: "It seems to me that Broadway has been incredibly virtuous, brave and selfless in shutting down to protect the public’s health and well. They are doing so at great potential cost. It remains to be seen if Broadway will bounce back."

You aren't serious.

The ONLY reason performances were cancelled was because it was ordered by the Governor. Without the government-mandated restrictions, performances would have continued. Health and safety come in a distant second to profits. And thepicture on Facebook of Shubert house managers (and two Shubert execs) celebrating at a bar while leaving FOH staff uninformed and in the dark is all levels of disgusting. (I'd post it, but I don't know the rules about that kind of thing here).

"

Being closed by the government means that insurance policies kick in and cover production losses. Without it people would not be getting refunds and most of these productions would just close instead of being able to weather the storm and re-open again when it's all over.

One would imagine that is cause for celebration, no?

Stop trying to make drama out of something good.

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 10:39am

"If Broadway actors were making millions a year like the basketball players who are being so generous, I imagine some might be doing the same."

Read my post later where I mention Hollywood actors and producers helping out. There have been quite a few Hollywood actors who have performed on Broadway. Even if they have not performed on Broadway, why not help people in need who work in the arts. Heck, if they start a fund to help these workers I would make a donation.

[uncageg]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 11:44am

And Broadway has already reached out beyond our industry. What Laura Benanti is doing hit national news this morning. Josh Gad has also reached out.

[Theater'sBestFriend]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 12:06pm

Fosse76 said: "I had only heard that Disney was considering shuttering Aladdin. No other show wasconsidering shutting down."

You heard wrong. You might want to check facts before amplifying rumors on the internet during a pandemic. Doing so might have tremendous negative ramifications for both public health and the future of live theater.

At a time when congress is looking into the role of Facebook, Twitter, etc. in spreading misinformation that could interfere with our national elections, Senators Schumer and Gillibrand might want to consider how misinformation on chat boards might affect public health and people's livelihoods, who bears responsibility for a harmful false rumor, and how information is being moderated on social media like this.

Updated On: 3/15/20 at 12:06 PM

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 1:19pm

Theater'sBestFriend said: "At a time when congress is looking into the role of Facebook, Twitter, etc. in spreading misinformation that could interfere with our national elections, Senators Schumer and Gillibrand might want to consider how misinformation on chat boards might affect public health and people's livelihoods, who bears responsibility for a harmful false rumor, and how information is being moderated on social media like this."

I'm sure Chuck and Kirsten will get right on that as a top priority right after they finish investigating that terrible person on Twitter who keeps insisting the hot dog is a sandwich and pineapple doesn't belong on pizza. Talk about misinformation that might affect public health during a pandemic!

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 2:12pm

There have been quite a few Hollywood actors who have performed on Broadway. Even if they have not performed on Broadway, why not help people in need who work in the arts. Heck, if they start a fund to help these workers I would make a donation.

How do you even know they haven't? Just because they don't make a donation public, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Many people don't want the attention or accolades, some people just give to give. 

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 2:19pm

"How do you even know they haven't? Just because they don't make a donation public, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Many people don't want the attention or accolades, some people just give to give. "

If you read my OP, I said I have not heard about it and if I am wrong I would apologize. Sure some people may like to be quiet about giving money but I think the NBA example shows you if it is done publicly it usually spurs people on to help. 

[hork]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 2:22pm

UncleCharlie said: "Theater'sBestFriend said: "At a time when congress is looking into the role of Facebook, Twitter, etc. in spreading misinformation that could interfere with our national elections, Senators Schumer and Gillibrand might want to consider how misinformation on chat boards might affect public health and people's livelihoods, who bears responsibility for a harmful false rumor, and how information is being moderated on social media like this."

I'm sure Chuck and Kirsten will get right on that as a top priority right after they finish investigating that terrible person on Twitter who keeps insisting the hot dog is a sandwich and pineapple doesn't belong on pizza. Talk about misinformation that might affect public health during a pandemic!"

A hot dog is a sandwich.

[SweetLips22]

Posted: 3/15/20 at 4:31pm

A hot dog is NOT a sandwich-it's a 6inch bun with a revolting red snag.[savaloy?] in the middle covered in even more revolting tomato sauce or/and MUSTARD, and if you must--half cooked onions---total YUK !

Oh yes--and you must say to a friend 'let me get this for you, you'll love it'  and eat it walking through a park trying to eat and talk nonsense at the same time.

Only read Horks post so have no idea what went on before