Where is everyone?- Page 6

[vanbrig]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 12:40am

singer234 said: "The Broadway community is NOTHING like the Hollywood community. I cringe when I see people criticize an actor and say “they knew what they were getting into”. No. Just because someone has a passion that leads them into the public eye does not give people the right to be mercilessly cruel. None of these posters who left would EVER have the audacity to even TWEET from a public handle their gripes to any of the performers they talk about with disdain. Not dislike, disdain. The theatre community is small. It’s local. VERY local. There is no room for nastiness hidden under the guise of privacy. If any of these “long time” posters had said an ounce of what they say on these boards to these performers’ faces, I might have a modicum of respect for them. But they don’t. This is a community filled with love and light, and if people don’t believe that what they write anonymously here is read by MANY MANY people in the industry, and deeply affects them, they’re fools. I’ve been lurking on these boards for over 15 years (truly) and have only recently seen this level of disdain towards certain performers. Whether it’s “allowed” or not is one thing, but it’s disgusting, unbecoming, and tasteless, all hidden beneath the excuse of anonymity. "

I do agree that there's never a need to be cruel and inflammatory, though I don't think constructive criticism falls into either of those categories. From what I've gathered, some of the stuff that was deleted was inflammatory and some wasn't. But yes, there is never a need for pure nastiness. 

However, if you really think that the Broadway community is filled with nothing but love and light...um, well...sure, we'll go with that. 

[singer234]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 12:46am

Obviously everything isn’t sunshine, but the theatre community prides itself on being welcoming and holds itself to a standard of love and acceptance, so yes, “love and light” in the metaphorical sense. We all know the bitchy side of theatre. It’s not what anyone strives for.

Updated On: 12/11/18 at 12:46 AM

[vanbrig]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 12:57am

singer234 said: "Obviouslyeverything isn’t sunshine, but the theatre community prides itself on being welcoming and holds itself to a standard of love and acceptance, so yes, “love and light” in the metaphorical sense. We all know the bitchy side of theatre. It’s not what anyone strives for."

It's not what anyone strives for, except for the many, many people who continue to make it happen. Makes sense, I guess.

Again, I agree with your idea that bullying is wrong and that being famous shouldn't give people a pass to treat you like crap. I just don't think it doesn't any good to pretend theatre is a beacon of love when that isn't always the case. Yes, there is an amazing sense of community and acceptance. However, there is a dark side to theatre that is very much real, and sugarcoating it won't make it better. It will only make people less inclined to acknowledge it, thus giving those that partake in it more of a pass (after all, who would believe anyone is being mean in the field that is full of love?). 

If my post is coming off as too mean or pedantic, I apologize. I know people who have been sexually harassed, verbally abused, and more while working in theatre who were brushed off by fellow actors and non-theatre people when they tried to do something about it, using similar sentiments. "No way, everyone gets along in the theatre!" / "You must be reading too much into it; theatre's about acceptance" / "That only happens in Hollywood" / etc. So this is a sensitive issue for me. 

Updated On: 12/11/18 at 12:57 AM

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 1:05am

"None of this happend when posters bullied others."

"God, THANK YOU!  It's so interesting, all the horrible people who verbally abused people on here for years are silent today.....how very telling.  BWW doesn't care if people who can't do anything for their bottom line are bullied, but Patti is friends with so many powerful New York actors, not to mention her husband is a well known and respected actor.  They don't want to lose advertisers."

This has been a long-time issue with BWW. They've always had these rules against personal attacks, they just seldom enforced them. Maybe that will now change, and wouldn't that be a good thing?? 

"Certain poster shares VERY personal story about anexity [sic] and life

Post gets deleted"

Could that be because a Broadway message board might not be the best place to discuss mental illness and repeated attempts of suicide, even one's own?

[vanbrig]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 1:24am

ghostlight2 said: "This has been a long-time issue with BWW. They've always had these rules against personal attacks, they just seldom enforced them. Maybe that will now change, and wouldn't that be a good thing??"

 

That's the issue I am conflicted with, and I sure hope it changes. I'm all for fighting against cyber-bullying and outright nastiness, and I would be thrilled if that were moderated with an even hand. However, as it stands now, two things are at play:

(1) Not every negative expression is an attack, and constructive criticism (if expressed with grace) isn't inherently. If someone doesn't like a show, or if they want to say they prefer Actor A's performance over Actor B's (as long as they don't attack Actor B while doing so), they should be allowed to express that if they can do so kindly. Otherwise there is very little to actually discuss on a discussion board. You don't see Red Lobster having a fit over everyone who says they didn't like the shrimp scampi. 

(2) As previously stated, it's selective. An attack (or in some cases even just mild criticism) of an actor is often deleted instantly, while even worse attacks against other users are often never deleted. 

 

[singer234]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 1:27am

i’m sorry, Vanbrigg, that is not what I meant by my post. Those things happen all too frequently in theatre. Only by being aware of those atrocities can we help strive to end them, I guess I am attaching more of a Mission Statement that I feel confident most people in the industry would stand by, one that promotes acceptance and love, but also one that does not tolerate abuse. It’s widespread in the industry, and I too feel it’s important to change the narrative.

[vanbrig]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 2:04am

I see, so you're talking more about what theatre should work to become. We definitely agree there. :)

[SweetLips22]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 2:27am

Carol Channing is BLACK?

[bk]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 4:48am

The people who were relentlessly bumping old threads knew exactly what they were doing and they got exactly what they knew they would.  They were pushing the moderators to do what they did and the moderators were correct to do it.  I've been around this place from the day this board went live - I've seen some of the nastiest barbs here directed at both posters and performers, by people hiding behind their anonymity.  It has always been the worst part of these boards.  Good luck to those who go to Reddit - a cesspool of a place - may their every wish come true over there.  

Meanwhile, I have no doubt that the moderators here are figuring out how to proceed from here on in and I have no doubt that whatever they come up with will make this a better board.

Updated On: 12/11/18 at 04:48 AM

[dmwnc1959]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 7:14am

The other day a brand new member asked a simple question, yet got the theater-specific terminology incorrect. Instead of helping, several forum members initially posted sarcastic replies, without ever answering the OP, and I called them out for it. The OP hasn’t come back. Yet.

As a society of theater lovers we are better than this. We need to do this more often, call-out people who are forgetting their place by bullying, being unacceptably rude, and out of line.

I think sometimes people forget that we’re here to help, as well as review, enlighten each other, and support theater.

Sure there may be other places, but I’m happiest here.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 9:12am

The culture of bullying of pretty much every kind on this forum has to go for the site to stay alive and I'm glad the mods have finally stepped in.

What happened the other night was disgusting and just because a member has a 'story' (if it's even true) to supposedly back up his/her argument doesn't make what was coming out of people's mouths (ok fingers) ok.

As stated above, even the simplest of questions can't even be answered without snark from some jerk.

The repeated threads of shows certain members don't like full of vitriol for the show itself, the people in it and the people who like them is pathetic. If you don't like something stay out of the thread. This is not to say constructive criticism shouldn't be discussed, you can criticise without making it a personal attack, but the endless nastiness is just tiring.

These are PEOPLE you are being extremely horrid about and for the whole world to see.

You should all be trying to do better than your current President not joining in the pileup of putrid muck!

Updated On: 12/11/18 at 09:12 AM

[kelsey1389]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 10:11am

I've been bouncing back and forth about posting on here. I read those Frozen threads a lot (it's one of my favorite shows for a variety of reasons) and I was disappointed to see all the negativity in there. I think that a lot of people over stepped from all sides. But the main thing I pulled away from this was that.... we don't want to turn into stan twitter. I'm more active there than I am on here, but some of the stuff that I've seen on there... the bullying, the rudeness, the lack of understanding... that's not what BWW is. I haven't been here for a particularly long time but I always felt like this was a place where I could come and have a more mature discussion about theatre than I could on twitter. What happened in those threads (now deleted) wasn't that. Let's practice what preach and try to be kind, yeah? (on all ends, for all parties involved)

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 10:20am

"that's not what BWW is" is like saying "this is not what America is." Nah, it always has been. Sometimes the greasy underbelly shows itself a little more often, that's all.

[kelsey1389]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 10:26am

LizzieCurry said: ""that's not what BWW is" is like saying "this is not what America is." Nah, it always has been. Sometimes the greasy underbelly shows itself a little more often, that's all."

Yeah, I get that. I guess what I'm wanting to say is that we can all strive to be better (and so should America as a whole, lol)

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 10:32am

dmwnc1959 said: "The other day a brand new member asked a simple question, yet got the theater-specific terminology incorrect. Instead of helping, several forum members initially posted sarcastic replies, without ever answering the OP, and I called them out for it. The OP hasn’t come back. Yet.

As a society of theater lovers we are better than this. We need to do this more often, call-out people who are forgetting their place by bullying, being unacceptably rude, and out of line.

I think sometimes people forget that we’re here to help, as well as review, enlighten each other, and support theater.

Sure there may be other places, but I’m happiest here.

"

While I could name others, your posts are the kind of posts Im here for! You are so genuinely excited and enthralled by the theater and you share your experience with us! Its great! These are the posters I'm here for. I, like probably other non local New Yorkers on here don't get to discuss Broadway everyday (if ever) with other people. This is why I come here to get my fix. It is disturbing when people get into personal attacks on here, but I hope all will be resolved soon and we can continue to discuss theatre . 

[Gloaming]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 10:40am

 

[vanbrig]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 11:44am

dmwnc1959 said: "The other day a brand new member asked a simple question, yet got the theater-specific terminology incorrect. Instead of helping, several forum members initially posted sarcastic replies, without ever answering the OP, and I called them out for it. The OP hasn’t come back. Yet.

As a society of theater lovers we are better than this. We need to do this more often, call-out people who are forgetting their place by bullying, being unacceptably rude, and out of line.

I think sometimes people forget that we’re here to help, as well as review, enlighten each other, and support theater.

Sure there may be other places, but I’m happiest here. "

I didn't catch that thread. Did the mods step in and remind everyone to be decent? Because if not, that's the kind of inconsistency everyone's talking about. Maybe it'll get better (though I've heard that story before so while I remain hopeful, I won't hold my breath). 

[gregnyc2]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 12:01pm

Now when did I have corn?

[dmwnc1959]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 12:12pm

vanbrig said: "I didn't catch that thread. Did the mods step in and remind everyone to be decent? Because if not, that's the kind of inconsistency everyone's talking about. Maybe it'll get better (though I've heard that story before so while I remain hopeful, I won't hold my breath)."

 

Sometimes the Moderators just can’t catch everything, even if it’s the slightest type of disrespect or transgression of the board’s rules and rules of basic common decency. I assume some Mods have full-time jobs other than monitoring these boards, so it’s up to forum members to act and gently call someone out when they overstep themselves.

Here’s the thread I mentioned. It’s a prime example of how we can be better than this to new-comers...notice the original title of the thread (and question, now edited) asked about Soundtracks:

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1113767

Updated On: 12/11/18 at 12:12 PM

[vanbrig]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 12:37pm

"Sometimes the mods can't catch everything" aka inconsistent. Basically exactly what myself and others have been saying. I agree that people should stick up for others, but if the mods say they’re going to do something, they should actually do it (and with fair an even hand). Sometimes they are fine, other times they are nowhere to be found, and other times they're going overboard protecting the sensibilities of actors. It's a mess. 

Updated On: 12/11/18 at 12:37 PM

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 12:44pm

It always seems disingenuous to me whenever I see people on here bemoaning how Broadway in general is falling in the ranks of mainstream popularity, and yet you have threads like the one above where newcomers are lashed out at for getting bits of terminology wrong. How on Earth are we supposed to introduce theatre to new fans if they get chastised for not already knowing everything about the subject when coming in?

[InTheBathroom1]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 1:00pm

I look forward to BWW being a more positive place where people who love theatre can connect with other people who love theatre instead of the same old posters owning the boards and making people with differing opinions feel less than.

[Broadway Joe]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 1:00pm

dmwnc1959 said: "Sometimes the Moderators just can’t catch everything, even if it’s the slightest type of disrespect or transgression ofthe board’srules and rules of basic common decency."

Under every post there is a "report to mods" link that you can select to notify the mods about a select post. 

 

[RWPrincess]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 1:25pm

dmwnc1959 said: "vanbrig said: "Ididn't catch that thread. Did the mods step in and remind everyone to be decent? Because if not, that's the kind of inconsistency everyone's talking about. Maybe it'll get better (though I've heard that story before so while I remain hopeful, I won't hold my breath)."

Sometimes the Moderators just can’t catch everything, even if it’s the slightest type of disrespect or transgression ofthe board’srules and rules of basic common decency. I assumesome Mods have full-time jobs other than monitoring these boards, so it’s up to forum members to act andgently call someone out when they overstep themselves.

Here’s the thread I mentioned. It’s a prime example of how we can be better than this to new-comers...notice the original title of the thread (and question, now edited) asked about Soundtracks:

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1113767"

So I'm also a newbie here and am still navigating the waters and determining if this is a site where I'd like to stay. My initial post on this board received a similar type of response though not as extreme as this quoted thread. I had actually debated reporting one of the posters who had responded to me but I held off since I was new. Anyway, between my personal experience, this quoted thread and then what happened 2 nights ago, that's what has me questioning whether I should stay here. I will also add that even though some of the posts here were out of line, I also don't agree with how the board was called out on another platform entirely. Anyway, that's all moot now.

I am an active member on a couple of boards pertaining to a tv show I watch, a show that does not air in prime time so like Broadway, it is always dealing with how to maintain and grow its audience to remain profitable to the network. One of the boards I post on for the show has a strict no actor bashing policy. That doesn't mean we can't bash the show itself or the character but we can't bash the actor. We also can't bash one another. Mods are pretty strict about removing/policing any posts that bash and it in turn helps create a nice, welcoming community for posters.

That said, I agree with some of the other posters here that actor bashing and constructive criticism are 2 different things and should be treated as such. Show reviews, opinions, and analysis are an important part of what helps some of us decide whether or not we want to spend money on a ticket so I'd hate to see that be taken away.

 

[romain2]

Posted: 12/11/18 at 1:38pm

Let’s not forget that IMDb eventually got rid of their message boards.

I would hate to see BW following suit.

This place has helped me a lot and I thank everyone who has provided information and help.