NY Times Journalist's "Body Shaming" in 'Smokey Joe's Cafe' Review - Page 4

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 3:49pm

It should shock me how people are basically saying 'get over it.'  But it doesn't.  That's how we've created a culture where it's ok for Joan Rivers to make a career out of denigrating someone for their looks (be it herself or other women).  It's not ok.  It's awful.  And things won't change if people to continue to pretend to laugh it off and say, 'Oh, that's just the business.'  If you don't think this is part and parcel with the type of predatory behavior that we are combating in this new era, you are entirely wrong.  It may be the way it's always been.  But that sh*t needs to change.

And good on Alysha for owning her hurt and for seeking out support.  For God's sake, everyone touches themselves over that friggin' fictional psychopath Evan Hansen and #youwillbefound and sh*t, but then there is a real, living person expressing hurt because her performance was reduced to what the critic thought was an unacceptable costume for a different body type and y'all are like, 'Eh...that's the business.  Get over it.'  Seriously?  Fix yourselves.  

Updated On: 7/24/18 at 03:49 PM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 3:58pm

I am actually shocked that Dear Evan Hansen is accepted. It is exploiting the problem I describe in this thread. It teaches people that it's ok to lie and do unreasonable things, that everything is allowed as long as you feel like a victim and that opinions of others are much more important than they really are. And that self worth lies in the affirmation from others.

Updated On: 7/24/18 at 03:58 PM

[imklepcyk]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 4:09pm

I think it's all rediculous. No comment needed for the size of somebody. The excuses are rediculous.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 4:11pm

SonofRobbieJ said: "It should shock me how people are basically saying 'get over it.' But it doesn't. That's how we've created a culture where it's ok for Joan Rivers to make a career out of denigrating someone for their looks (be it herself or other women). It's not ok. It's awful. And things won't change if people to continue to pretend to laugh it off and say, 'Oh, that's just the business.' If you don't think this is part and parcel with the type of predatory behavior that we are combating in this new era, you are entirely wrong. It may be the way it's always been. But that sh*t needs to change.

And good on Alysha for owning her hurt and for seeking out support. For God's sake, everyone touches themselves over that friggin' fictional psychopath Evan Hansen and #youwillbefound and sh*t, but then there is a real, living person expressing hurt because her performance was reduced to what the critic thought was an unacceptable costume for a different body type and y'all are like, 'Eh...that's the business. Get over it.' Seriously? Fix yourselves."

Are you kidding me? Anyone who becomes an actress knows that she will be judged 24/7 about her appearance. Is it nice? No, but it's just the way things are. An actress WILL be told she is too fat/old/ugly/nose too big/"ethnic looking" for a part at nearly every audition. If Umphress doesn't want to be judged on her appearance she should become a lawyer or doctor or whatever else where physical appearance isn't such a dealbreaker.

Her whining that she cried all night over a tactless comment in the NYTimes is as ridiculous as a doctor saying "Omg! Blood! I can't deal."

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 4:14pm

It should shock me how people are basically saying 'get over it.'  But it doesn't.  That's how we've created a culture where it's ok for Joan Rivers to make a career out of denigrating someone for their looks (be it herself or other women).  It's not ok.  It's awful.  And things won't change if people to continue to pretend to laugh it off and say, 'Oh, that's just the business.'  If you don't think this is part and parcel with the type of predatory behavior that we are combating in this new era, you are entirely wrong.  It may be the way it's always been.  But that sh*t needs to change.

And good on Alysha for owning her hurt and for seeking out support.  For God's sake, everyone touches themselves over that friggin' fictional psychopath Evan Hansen and #youwillbefound and sh*t, but then there is a real, living person expressing hurt because her performance was reduced to what the critic thought was an unacceptable costume for a different body type and y'all are like, 'Eh...that's the business.  Get over it.'  Seriously?  Fix yourselves.  

All of this.  

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 4:25pm

FIX. YOURSELVES. 

[Kad]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 4:32pm

poisonivy2 said: "Are you kidding me? Anyone who becomes an actress knows that she will be judged 24/7 about her appearance. Is it nice? No, but it's just the way things are. An actress WILL be told she is too fat/old/ugly/nose too big/"ethnic looking" for a part at nearly every audition.If Umphress doesn't want to be judged on her appearance she should become alawyer or doctor or whatever else where physical appearance isn't such a dealbreaker.

Her whining that she cried all night over a tactless comment in the NYTimes is as ridiculous as a doctor saying "Omg! Blood! I can't deal.""

"It's way things are!" is a lousy excuse.

And a review in the country's most important theatre section is a much different beast than a comment said behind closed doors.

(and no, comments about an actress' appearance are NOT TOLERATED in an audition room, especially to the actress' face).

(...and as if leaving showbiz would ever stop people from commenting on a woman's appearance)

Updated On: 7/24/18 at 04:32 PM

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 5:00pm

Completely unnacceptable.

The predjudice overweight people face on a daily basis is shocking. The backlash to Primark making plus size clothes in the news recently was disgusting. The comments that overweight people basically don’t deserve nice clothes. The “It encourages people to be fat” is the same argument used against LGBTQ+ progress, pathetic.

People are overweight for a variety of reasons but overeating just like under eating is a disorder. But there is no empathy for overweight people they are stigmatised, underweight people are pitied.

The “Jolly fat person” trope is a myth,

When you’ve read a friends suicide note because they ‘feel trapped’ and ‘don’t fit in physically or mentally in this world’ you might understand or have compassion, empathy for people.

I just read a comment on twitter about dogs on trains where someone said “fat people on public transport makes her sick”.

That overweight person you stare at while they cannot fit in the plane seat may just never travel again or just disappear from life till they are no longer there.

Just be kind. Overweight people know they are overweight. No one but their Doctor or relatives need to tell them.

[SweetLips22]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 5:38pm

I think it boils down to how sensitive an individual reacts to personal comments. Love/hate your new hairstyle; gosh, you've lost a lot of weight--yes, been really sick; gee--you've put on a lot of weight--thanks for telling me--I hadn't noticed !! or said to me--you're losing your hair--thanks I REALLY hadn't noticed--must go and do something about it.

You venture onto shaky ground when you open your mouth, or put pen to paper and make any sort of personal references--the foot can go quicker into the mouth then trying to get it out--I would say we have all done it, spoken before we thought.

I don't feel it was necessary for this critic to reference the actor and the clothes this way but the thought process between her brain and the hand just didn't connect.

A follow up apology[did she?] in the paper the next day is all that is needed and would be forgotten the day after that.

It's actually the directors fault for allowing such a 'frumpy looking dress'[my words] to be worn by his performer--I wonder if it has now been changed? People will now buy tickets to see 'that dress', joke.

 

[A Director]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 11:29pm

This is smokin'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_Zkxuej770&feature=youtu.be

[binau]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 3:47am

Re: the comments about Joan Rivers. We are a humourless bunch these days aren’t we. If only she was alive to comment on the state of 2018.

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 4:04am

qolbinau said: "Re: the comments about Joan Rivers. We are a humourless bunch these days aren’t we. If only she was alive to comment on the state of 2018. "

Humor isnt mocking people for their skin colour, their gender, their sexuality, or their size.

Remember words can hurt. Broadway recently had a high profile suicide because someone was singled out and humiliated. 

Grow up! 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 4:51am

qolbinau said: "Re: the comments about Joan Rivers. We are a humourless bunch these days aren’t we. If only she was alive to comment on the state of 2018."

Totally agree. It's like whenever someone is insecure about something, the goal is to scream as loud as they can whenever they encounter anyone in the world who mentions it, silencing the whole world in order for them to have a safe space. It is used as a shield.

The actual solution lies somewhere else. It lies in a change of mindset in people like, for example Gizmo6. There is a big difference between mocking and accepting that we are not all the same. Every trait is different and we should always be able to mention it, especially whenever it has a reason for pointing out something, such as in this case, a costume looked bad, which harmed the show/scene. That is not mocking. It's the people who love to exploit the victim role that put this label on it.

This brings me to the next point, you bring in the topic of suicide to make a point. You should be careful with that. Because you are implying that the whole world is responsible for someone not able to handle things. While it is the personal mindset that counts. I think that when you raise someone with the idea that a safe space is the solution and silencing the whole world (which will never happen, with 6 billion opinions), it actually creates a higher suicide rate in these people. Taking comfort in the victim role and suicide should not be used as arguments in this case

Everybody has insecurities. A good example of insecurity is when someone is in a relationship, but is very jealous. What gizmo would probably suggest is to scream very hard to the big bad world who is a threat, and lock up your man in the basement, so that a "safe space" is created. I would say, accept the world is out there, learn to deal with it, trust yourself and be defensible enough to accept it.

Like I said, mentioning things is not mocking. If a very short person could not be seen properly because his head did not rise above a piece of scenery, the journalist would have mentioned it too. I bet you would started to scream "lengthism!" Affirming that the actor in question is a sad victim. While he is not.

There is a difference between the worth of a person and mentioning things one happens to be insecure about. 

Because when people immediately question the first when the second thing happens, we are creating a world where people are actually offended by a clothes remark, when they see a model on tv, when they see an ice cream, when they see someone with better hair, when they see someone taller, or when a song in a movie is called "When I kissed the teacher". 

Really people, doing this is not going to make anyone happy.

Updated On: 7/25/18 at 04:51 AM

[newintown]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 7:36am

SonofRobbieJ wrote: "FIX. YOURSELVES."

I understand your intention, and, I suppose, your belief that you're morally significantly more evolved than those to whom you write, but.... do you really think that's helpful or effective or attractive?

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 8:06am

Dave any enlightened person can see that suicide is not a solo act. A person doesn’t commit suicide they are a victim of suicide. Too many bullies and trolls online should be in prison.

The sooner the better people are held accountable for their words or actions then a better place the world will be.

Overweight people are probably the last group of people who are allowed be humiliated or tortured because the majority of people are too ignorant, uneducated to understand that being overweight isn’t a lifestyle choice for 99% of people. It can be medication, mental health, it can be socio-economic, to deny that just shows ignorance and lack of empathy.

But as the resident racist I doubt I can enlighten you.

[newintown]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 8:27am

"...being overweight isn’t a lifestyle choice for 99% of people. It can be medication, mental health, it can be socio-economic, to deny that just shows ignorance and lack of empathy."

Yes, it can be, and occasionally is, but every medical source you can find clearly states that "weight gain is largely a result of eating behavior and lifestyle," or "people gain weight when they eat more calories than they burn through activity." We can discuss why people consume more than they physically need until the cows come home, but ultimately, only the individual can take control of their weight and weight-associated health, and to say that "it isn't a choice" does no one any favors. All unhealthy behavior is a choice - perhaps a terribly difficult one to correct (as any recovering addict will tell you), but correctable. No one who has ever participated in an intervention will sympathize with the point of view that self-destructive behavior "isn't a choice," and, by extension, can't be corrected.

Updated On: 7/25/18 at 08:27 AM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 8:35am

Gizmo6 said: "A person doesn’t commit suicide they are a victim of suicide. Too many bullies and trolls online should be in prison.

Overweight people are probably the last group of people who are allowed be humiliated or tortured because the majority of people are too ignorant, uneducated to understand that being overweight isn’t a lifestyle choice for 99% of people. It can be medication, mental health, it can be socio-economic, to deny that just shows ignorance and lack of empathy."

If you insist on the victim role, if anything, they are a victim of not being able to handle things. The solution lies within. Not in the big bad world who mentions a costume in a review of a show.

I don't care about the reason why a person is big. I don't care if a person is big. I care about not seeing people as victims and refuse to put them in that role when a remark about clothing or facts is made. That says something about the show/scene but nothing about the worth of that person. Anyone who think it does is wrong in my opinion. A person's worth does not lie in certain traits. 

Pushing people into that direction is increasing the suicide rate.

Updated On: 7/25/18 at 08:35 AM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 8:48am

A Director said: "This is smokin'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_Zkxuej770&feature=youtu.be"

Wow, that girl has some issues with men. Does she realize how sexualized men actually are in this day and age? I see it in my daily life, ladies squeeze my bum when I'm in a bar, I get remarks that are out of line, when I post a picture, people only talk about how I look and make dirty remarks, I see clips on facebook every day where men are sexualized in a bizarre way and get millions of reactions from women that go very far, what are her thoughts about that? She has no idea about the way men have to fight this every single day.

It is like she is whining about a lack of interest/confirmation from men, but that is a insecurity/self esteem issue that should be solved from within. You can't really blame the world for that. If she is truly against objectifying, a costume remark is by no means as bad as this, so what is actually her point?

Updated On: 7/25/18 at 08:48 AM

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 8:54am

newintown said: ""...being overweight isn’t a lifestyle choice for 99% of people. It can be medication, mental health, it can be socio-economic, to deny that just shows ignorance and lack of empathy."

Yes, itcanbe, and occasionallyis, but every medical source you can find clearly states that "weight gain is largely a result of eating behavior and lifestyle," or "people gain weight when they eat more calories than they burn through activity." We can discusswhypeople consume more than they physically need until the cows come home, but ultimately, only the individual cantake control of their weight and weight-associated health, and to say that "it isn't a choice" does no one any favors. All unhealthy behavior is a choice - perhaps a terribly difficult one to correct (as any recovering addict will tell you), but correctable. No one who has ever participated in an intervention will sympathize with the point of view that self-destructive behavior "isn't a choice," and, by extension, can't be corrected."

Sorry but a person with BPD for example can not control impulses and will sit and eat until they vomit. The same goes for some people on the Autism spectrum, not all disabilities are visible and no one knows what conditions people live with. 

A person struggling with a mental health condition doesn’t need to be told they are ugly, the dress makes them look horrible. 

I don’t know why people have to comment on it full stop. Self-destructive behaviour, the clue is in the title. It’s destroying yourself. Do you really think on top of feeling disgust with themselves they need to see it in print or hear it from someone who has no relation to them. 

Shut up, mind your own business and **** out of other Peoples lives. Simples. 

Also ‘victim role’ Dave what level of education have you? It’s pathethic. People who live with mental health conditions aren’t victims of their making but of people like you. Who are so ignorant and selfish. 

You really are one of them pathetic return of the kings online vacuums. Do one. 

[newintown]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 8:58am

"Sorry but a person with BPD for example can not control impulses and will sit and eat until they vomit. The same goes for some people on the Autism spectrum, not all disabilities are visible and no one knows what conditions people live with."

Yes, you've restated your point well, however, it still doesn't address the (also restated) fact that medical science still says that the overwhelming majority of overweight Americans can correct their dietary and activity choices. Your examples are true, but reflect a minuscule fraction of the overweight population. To say to someone that they have no choice about a health condition is devastatingly un-empowering, and, I believe, ultimately would lead to greater depression and low self-image than letting them know that they can change their lives.

Updated On: 7/25/18 at 08:58 AM

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 9:02am

newintown said: ""Sorry but a person with BPD for example can not control impulses and will sit and eat until they vomit. The same goes for some people on the Autism spectrum, not all disabilities are visible and no one knows what conditions people live with."

Yes, you've restated your point well, however, it still doesn't address the (also restated) fact that medical science still says that the overwhelming majority of overweight Americans can correct their dietary andactivity choices. Your examples are true, but reflect a minuscule fraction of the overweight population."

America isn’t the world. There’s much more beyond it. 

And frankly if you don’t think that America’s obesity problem is because of the sh1thole it is and the impact that has on peoples mental health then you’re misguided. Just because people aren’t diagnosed with a condition doesn’t mean it’s not present. 

[newintown]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 9:08am

"And frankly if you don’t think that America’s obesity problem is because of the sh1thole it is and the impact that has on peoples mental health then you’re misguided."

I was wondering how long it would take for you to resort to a personal insult. 3rd reply. Not bad.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 9:08am

I also think we shouldn't treat the world as 1 big mental health condition, and we should be able to laugh at ourselves and be very aware of the difference between a person's worth and a remark about certain facts/traits that one might be insecure about.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 9:11am

newintown said: "To say to someone that they have no choice about a health condition is devastatingly un-empowering, and, I believe, ultimately would lead to greater depression and low self-image than letting them know that they canchange their lives."

Very good point.

The victim role does indeed lead to greater depression.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 7/25/18 at 9:15am

Gizmo6 said: "Dave any enlightened person can see that suicide is not a solo act. A person doesn’t commit suicide they are a victim of suicide. Too many bullies and trolls online should be in prison."

Are you talking about criminalizing speech because of how other people react to it? That's an absolutely horrifying idea. People should be able to say anything they want - other than direct, specific threats of violence - without fear of reprisal from the government. (Of course, they're not shielded at all from natural consequences from friends, family, and employers.)