Was Kristolyn Lloyd making a dig towards DEH?- Page 3

[AC126748]

Posted: 4/20/18 at 10:28am

Jared is specifically written to be a white jewish boy from the suburbs. Not a great example there. 

Not all Jews are white. But the character is way more defined as a nerdy gamer/computer whiz than anything else. Jared could easily be played by a person of color and not lose anything.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/20/18 at 10:30am

For people who still want to cling to "BUT GENETICS!!!," we never see Evan's dad nor hear a description of him. Having a white Heidi and a biracial Evan adds another layer to the whole situation.

[greenifyme2]

Posted: 4/20/18 at 7:42pm

FYI guys she just instagram storied about this thread...

Hi Kristolyn!

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/20/18 at 8:37pm

I don’t know the minute plot points... Is there a possibility Evan is adopted so he doesn’t have to look a certain way at all?

The movie Love, Simon featured a biracial (half black) Jewish teen. I have Filipino cousins who are Jewish. I know several Asian people with last names that are perceived as Jewish. The character can literally be any race.

Updated On: 4/20/18 at 08:37 PM

[Elegance101]

Posted: 4/20/18 at 8:55pm

I know it's interesting to wonder about those plot points, but the audience should able to suspend their disbelief enough that there doesn't have to be a clear explanation of why some of the teens don't look like their siblings or their parents in these shows. Like Eponine can be played by a black woman without considering whether or not the Thénardiers adopted her from Africa or something (bc that's obviously not true). Even the young Eponines weren't black on Broadway, but it was totally okay.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/20/18 at 8:58pm

I mean, look at the standbys of Frozen. No explanation of a black Anna or a half-Japanese Elsa. It’s just whatever.

[LaneBryant]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 12:40am

HeyMrMusic said: "I mean, look at the standbys of Frozen. No explanation of a black Anna or a half-Japanese Elsa. It’s just whatever."

 

But in Broadway's Frozen, Anna's Father is Black and her mother is White.....so a Black Anna would need no explanation.........cuz it makes sense. Having White Elsa and White Anna is actually what doesn't make sense, when you look at how they cast the parents.....

 

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 12:54am

Good to know. I actually haven’t seen it yet. Are the young girls also diversely cast?

Just goes to show that you just tell the audience that these people are sisters or children of specific people or Jewish and the audience will go along with it.

Representation matters. White people are not the only ones who deal with depression, anxiety, or any other conflicts the characters have. Audience members of color ALWAYS have to find something to relate to in white principals. Surely white audiences can do the same with a person of color playing a character like Evan or Heidi or Connor or even Jared.

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 1:03am

I think DEH actually IS specifically about a white boy.

Because nobody else could possibly get away with that crap with no consequences, much less somehow be passed off as an inspirational protagonist. 

Updated On: 4/21/18 at 01:03 AM

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 1:09am

Scarywarhol said: "I think DEH actually IS specifically about a white boy.

Because nobody else could possibly get away with that crap with no consequences, much less be somehow passed off as an inspirational proragonist."

Ding ding ding ding ding!!!!

[Elegance101]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 1:21am

LaneBryant said: "HeyMrMusic said: "I mean, look at the standbys of Frozen. No explanation of a black Anna or a half-Japanese Elsa. It’s just whatever."



But in Broadway's Frozen, Anna's Father is Black and her mother is White.....so a Black Anna would need no explanation.........cuz it makes sense. Having White Elsa and White Anna is actually what doesn't make sense, when you look at how they cast the parents.....

"

The children are all white. So even when Anna is black, the young version of her is white.

The point of this is that what "makes sense" shouldn't matter. Stop asking for an explanation of their genetics and suspend your disbelief.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 1:26am

Scarywarhol said: "I think DEH actually IS specifically about a white boy.

Because nobody else could possibly get away with that crap with no consequences, much less somehow be passed off as an inspirational protagonist."

Brilliant.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 2:03am

I'm actually still amazed this show has struck such a chord with people. The staging is incredibly boring and uneventful - thankfully it didn't win Best Director - and the whole show feels like the same damn song on repeat - save for a few numbers. And the main character is a d-bag. Don't get it. 

And I think audiences will believe what you want them to believe. Like when a character is suppose to be the "hot guy" or "hot girl." People will find them attractive even if they aren't. Or how the super gay guy can play "straight" because the show tells us he's straight. It's just what it is. I think audiences are more open than we think. I saw Rashaad in August: Osage County and didn't think for a second "This doesn't make sense." She was brilliant. 

[natashalost]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 2:10am

LaneBryant said: "HeyMrMusic said: "I mean, look at the standbys of Frozen. No explanation of a black Anna or a half-Japanese Elsa. It’s just whatever."


But in Broadway's Frozen, Anna's Father is Black and her mother is White.....so a Black Anna would need no explanation.........cuz it makes sense. Having White Elsa and White Anna is actually what doesn't make sense, when you look at how they cast the parents....."

To be fair, you still have to suspend your disbelief in Frozen because no matter what, the girls playing Young Anna/Elsa are white. If a black understudy is on for Anna, Young Anna is played by a white girl.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 2:30am

I mean, the audience is still believing this girl can create an ice castle with her "magic," so...suspend your disbelief.... 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 4:36pm

Are you guys so young you don't remember all the young Cosettes and Eponines who grew up to be a different ethnicity?

[dearalanaaaa]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 7:11pm

natashalost said: "LaneBryant said: "HeyMrMusic said: "I mean, look at the standbys of Frozen. No explanation of a black Anna or a half-Japanese Elsa. It’s just whatever."


But in Broadway's Frozen, Anna's Father is Black and her mother is White.....so a Black Anna would need no explanation.........cuz it makes sense. Having White Elsa and White Anna is actually what doesn't make sense, when you look at how they cast the parents....."

To be fair, you still have to suspend your disbelief in Frozen because no matter what, the girls playing Young Anna/Elsa are white. If a black understudy is on for Anna, Young Anna is played by a white girl."

Michael Jackson went from Black as a child to White as an adult. Why can't it be the other way? I understand he had a skin issue but still.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/21/18 at 7:12pm

^ boring

[theatreguy12]

Posted: 4/23/18 at 12:35am

LaneBryant said: "qolbinau said: "I doubt it’s a dig at a specific show - maybe the culture of casting in general. But sad for her to think she might have been cast for token ‘diversity’ (or racial diversity* more specifically - I want to continue to challenge the notion that diversity is just skin-deep). Maybe she was cast because she was the best person for the role? At least, I hope so.

Unfortunately, we all have to call BULL and SHIIIII. That show was in DC with an all white cast. People were throwing around the name, "Dear Evan Hansen: A New American Musical." When they opened that show, they had EVERY intention of bringing that EXACTcast to Broadway. The show opened, and suddenly people are writing the Washington Post PISSED that a "new american musical" has cast only white people....

ThoseWHITE producers looked at that cast and said, "EenieMeenie MineyMoe, One of you White people has to go! Lets cast a random Black girl in that little role" Then they climbed back out of the whole they were hiding in and said, "See!!! We filled our diversity quote! Is everybody happy? Please don't boycott us!!!"

It's show BUSINESS! They didn't re-write a single line of that character to showcase a Black girls POV or sensibilities in 2016. THEY DONT CARE. UGH!!!!!"

Why would they?  The show isn't about her.

Besides, what exactly are her sensibilities as a young black woman in this show.  That's not what the show is about.  It's about something he's done.  She just happens to be one of his friends.  

I agree though that any one of these roles could be played by any member of any race.  The storyline is totally colorblind. 

Of course, you cast a young non-white man in this role from the beginning, will you have people saying: 'He's such a d-bag, Why didn't they make him white?  Are they trying to stereotype that all young men  of color are d-bags?'

Or originate POTO with a non-white man rather than Michael Crawford and people say:  'Why did they cast a this man in particular?  The Phantom kills people.  What are they trying to say?'

Or they open Chicago with a non-white Billy.  'Are they trying to say that all men of color are swindlers and cheats?'

You're never going to win.  It's either that you're being culturally insensitive, too colorblind, not colorblind enough, or trying to send some stereotypical, underlying message.

There will always be someone out there who is unhappy.

If one wants a story that conveys their experience as a young black girl, playing a role such as this in DEH isn't the vehicle to do it.  First of all it's not a highly developed character.  Nor is it a character who is meant to exhibit   one's cultural experience.   Find something else.  Or write something else that will do that.

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 4/23/18 at 1:24am

qolbinau said: "I doubt it’s a dig at a specific show - maybe the culture of casting in general. But sad for her to think she might have been cast for token ‘diversity’ (or racial diversity* more specifically - I want to continue to challenge the notion that diversity is just skin-deep). Maybe she was cast because she was the best person for the role? At least, I hope so. But these are the kind of unintended consequences you get when people start to think people are cast based on the demographic they belong to rather than talent. It’s why, in the workplace and in casting - unless a role specifically calls for a certain ethnicity people should always be treated as individuals and cast based on fit/talent."

The thing is, there is very, very little for the actor cast in the role to work with. No solos and the book scenes are not written with much room for nuances. Nothing in her performance convinces me that she's the best in the role either, and I've seen the show 11 times with the original cast.

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 4/23/18 at 1:27am

Elegance101 said: "I know it's interesting to wonder about those plot points, but the audience should able to suspend their disbelief enough that there doesn't have to be a clear explanation of why some of the teens don't look like their siblings or their parents in these shows. Like Eponine can be played by a black woman without considering whether or not theThénardiers adopted her from Africa or something (bc that's obviously not true). Even the young Eponines weren't black on Broadway, but it was totally okay."

But there is a problem if you have a black Fantine, white Thenardiers, black Eponine and white Cosette. And it made you wonder whether the Thenardiers got the wrong daughter. Unfortunately, this was the ethnic make-up of the cast I saw on Broadway.

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 4/23/18 at 1:31am

theatreguy12 said: "LaneBryant said: "qolbinau said: "I doubt it’s a dig at a specific show - maybe the culture of casting in general. But sad for her to think she might have been cast for token ‘diversity’ (or racial diversity* more specifically - I want to continue to challenge the notion that diversity is just skin-deep). Maybe she was cast because she was the best person for the role? At least, I hope so.

Unfortunately, we all have to call BULL and SHIIIII. That show was in DC with an all white cast. People were throwing around the name, "Dear Evan Hansen: A New American Musical." When they opened that show, they had EVERY intention of bringing that EXACTcast to Broadway. The show opened, and suddenly people are writing the Washington Post PISSED that a "new american musical" has cast only white people....

ThoseWHITE producers looked at that cast and said, "EenieMeenie MineyMoe, One of you White people has to go! Lets cast a random Black girl in that little role" Then they climbed back out of the whole they were hiding in and said, "See!!! We filled our diversity quote! Is everybody happy? Please don't boycott us!!!"

It's show BUSINESS! They didn't re-write a single line of that character to showcase a Black girls POV or sensibilities in 2016. THEY DONT CARE. UGH!!!!!"

Why would they? The show isn't about her.

Besides, what exactly are her sensibilities as a young black woman in this show. That's not what the show is about. It's about something he's done. She just happens to be one of his friends.

I agree though that any one of these roles could be played by any member of any race. The storyline is totally colorblind.

Of course, you cast a young non-whiteman in this role from the beginning, will you have people saying:'He's such a d-bag, Why didn't they make him white? Are they trying to stereotype that all young men of color are d-bags?'

Or originatePOTO with a non-whiteman rather than Michael Crawford and people say: 'Why did they cast a thisman in particular? The Phantom kills people. What are they trying to say?'

Or they open Chicago with anon-whiteBilly. 'Are they trying to say that all men of color are swindlers and cheats?'

You're never going to win. It's either that you're being culturally insensitive, too colorblind, not colorblind enough, or trying to send some stereotypical, underlying message.

There will always be someone out there who is unhappy.

If one wants a story thatconveys their experience as a young black girl, playing a role such as this in DEH isn't the vehicle to do it. First of all it's not a highly developed character. Nor is it a character who is meant to exhibit one's cultural experience. Find something else. Or write something else that will do that."

Ironically, The King and I is a much worse offender of the problems people say Miss Saigon has, while the former is always held as part of the classic American musical canon. Not to mention the former is actually banned by law in Thailand.

[gypsy101]

Posted: 4/23/18 at 2:20am

LizzieCurry said: "Are you guys so young you don't remember all the young Cosettes and Eponines who grew up to be a different ethnicity?"

that happened in the 2012 tour and i found it a little confusing 

[Elegance101]

Posted: 4/23/18 at 3:21am

Dancingthrulife2 said: "Elegance101 said: "I know it's interesting to wonder about those plot points, but the audience should able to suspend their disbelief enough that there doesn't have to be a clear explanation of why some of the teens don't look like their siblings or their parents in these shows. Like Eponine can be played by a black woman without considering whether or not theThénardiers adopted her from Africa or something (bc that's obviously not true). Even the young Eponines weren't black on Broadway, but it was totally okay."

But there is a problem if you have a black Fantine, white Thenardiers, black Eponine and white Cosette. And it made you wonder whether the Thenardiers got the wrong daughter. Unfortunately, this was the ethnic make-up of the cast I saw on Broadway."

You can't suspend your GD disbelief? You're watching people belt out lush ballads while being killed in 19th century France. The racial makeup is where you have to pump the brakes? Where it crosses a line? REALLY?

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 4/23/18 at 3:37am

Elegance101 said: "Dancingthrulife2 said: "Elegance101 said: "I know it's interesting to wonder about those plot points, but the audience should able to suspend their disbelief enough that there doesn't have to be a clear explanation of why some of the teens don't look like their siblings or their parents in these shows. Like Eponine can be played by a black woman without considering whether or not theThénardiers adopted her from Africa or something (bc that's obviously not true). Even the young Eponines weren't black on Broadway, but it was totally okay."

But there is a problem if you have a black Fantine, white Thenardiers, black Eponine and white Cosette. And it made you wonder whether the Thenardiers got the wrong daughter. Unfortunately, this was the ethnic make-up of the cast I saw on Broadway."

You can't suspend your GD disbelief? You're watching people belt out lush ballads while being killed in 19th century France. The racial makeup is where you have to pump the brakes? Where it crosses a line? REALLY?"

Suspending your disbelief does not mean suspending your logic and reasoning skills. In this case, the exact "race" of the characters is not the problem. The problem is that the way they jumbled the ethnicity of the characters created a confusion that is more logically reachable than what the story actually intends. I can of course suspend the disbelief that the racial make-up in Les Miz is quite different from the actual racial make-up of 19th Century Paris, but it does take some conscious thinking to believe that, when the baby of Race A turns out to be Race B while the baby of a woman of Race B is actually Race A, the possibility that they have confused the babies in the beginning is not an option.