Next to Normal- why no west end transfer

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 11/27/16 at 8:52am

I remember reading on here it was an issue with the rights. Can anyone go into further detail? 

[DeNada]

Posted: 11/27/16 at 10:48am

A transfer was in the works a year or two after the Broadway run - I remember that the producers looked at theatres etc.  I don't know if it was a rights issue in the end, but I suspect they looked at the West End market and decided/realised that the show would be an a flop.

There's not really any market in London for mid-scale serious (not to mention original) musical theatre; the industry is very much driven by familiar IP and stunt casting outside of the fringe and shows at the National Theatre.  

With that said, however, if there IS a rights issue, it'll be that the producers won't want the first production in the UK to be shunted off into the middle of nowhere without any real awareness of it happening (such as happened to, say, Light in the Piazza, which premiered in a relatively large scale production in Leicester (a city in the middle of England) and never went anywhere else).  If it's going to come to London, they'll want it to be a big deal with a big name - unless they give up and let somewhere like the Donmar do their own non-replica production.

[aaaaaa15]

Posted: 11/27/16 at 10:58am

There is a rights issue. They tried to do it at Edinburgh fringe and then it got cancelled because of rights.

[ggersten]

Posted: 11/27/16 at 11:18am

I am guessing Southwark or Charing Cross eventually.  

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 11/27/16 at 11:18am

Or Menier Chocolate Factory?

[DeNada]

Posted: 11/27/16 at 11:27am

aaaaaa15 said: "There is a rights issue. They tried to do it at Edinburgh fringe and then it got cancelled because of rights."

That's not a rights issue stopping a West End production from happening.  That's a rights issue stopping a Fringe production happening before there's been a major professional production of a Pulitzer-winning musical that would ensure the continued life of the property in the secondary market.

As others have said, maybe a Southwark/Charing Cross/Menier production, but Southwark/Charing Cross are where shows with no real plausible life beyond that production go.  Southwark's currently got Side Show on, for instance - a show no West End producer in their right mind would touch (to be fair, I'm pretty surprised it got revived on Broadway!) and undoubtedly benefitting slightly from the synergy with the West End production of Dreamgirls (which is, after all, its UK premiering, and starring someone off Glee!).

 

[aaaaaa15]

Posted: 11/27/16 at 11:49am

Well they said the UK rights were being held back by someone which is why it hasn't been done anywhere yet. This was at least 2 years ago as well. I even got to the point of buying a ticket and then it got cancelled.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 11/27/16 at 11:52am

Hmm

http://www.inforum.com/content/paperwork-mistake-prevents-act-ups-next-normal-cast-performing-scotland

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/27/16 at 11:54am

There's not really any market in London for mid-scale serious (not to mention original) musical theatre

The National is generally fond of them as with London Road and Caroline, or Change.  Next to Normal seems to be a rather obvious fit for them.

[DeNada]

Posted: 11/27/16 at 12:32pm

Mister Matt said: "There's not really any market in London for mid-scale serious (not to mention original) musical theatre

The National is generally fond of them as with London Road and Caroline, or Change.  Next to Normal seems to be a rather obvious fit for them."

I did say "...outside of the fringe and shows at the National".  I had thought they'd do it, if I'm honest - imagine my surprise when Fela came over instead!

I think the ship has sailed for the National tackling it now, if I'm honest - too long since the original production to mount a replica, they'd probably want to do their own thing if they did it.

I think Dear Evan Hansen is likely to have a similar fate when it comes to transferring (although that isn't a show I'd peg for the National).

 

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 11/28/16 at 9:48am

"There's not really any market in London for mid-scale serious (not to mention original) musical theatre"

This is 100% the answer.

[ggersten]

Posted: 11/28/16 at 11:16am

neonlightsxo said: ""There's not really any market in London for mid-scale serious (not to mention original) musical theatre"

This is 100% the answer.

"

Exhibit A:  The Go-Between even with Michael Crawford

 

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 11/28/16 at 1:21pm

Also, the commercial failure of shows like Spring Awakening, Rent, and Hair. They just aren't interested.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 11/28/16 at 1:28pm

Plus it was only a minor hit on Broadway. Turned a profit, etc, but didn't run for years. Don't think it would be a commercial success in the West End. But I am surprised the actual theatre companies haven't picked it up.

[LarryD2]

Posted: 11/28/16 at 1:54pm

I'm also somewhat surprised that one of the small, prestigious London companies hasn't done a limited run of this. Off the top of my head I can think of about a dozen age-appropriate British musical theater actresses who would probably kill for a role like Diana. I agree that a commercial West End run has never been likely, but a limited engagement at a small house is a completely different animal.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/28/16 at 2:03pm

I think the ship has sailed for the National tackling it now, if I'm honest - too long since the original production to mount a replica, they'd probably want to do their own thing if they did it.

I've seen a regional production in Chicago and it's clear that the original staging is not necessary to make it work.  I think it would be great if the National did mount their own production rather than simply replicating the original.  There is a lot of room for creativity in the staging.  Personally, I'd LOVE to see Ruthie Henshall as Diana.

[LarryD2]

Posted: 11/28/16 at 2:19pm

Ruthie Henshall would be a great choice. As would Jenna Russell, Jo Riding, or Hannah Waddingham, just to name three.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 11/28/16 at 2:21pm

Jenna Russell would make me fly over. 

[ukpuppetboy]

Posted: 11/28/16 at 3:13pm

As I had understood it the original producers/creative team wished to retain control and casting choices for the West End production - preferring to wait for that to play out than rush into mounting a London run. It appears others on this thread may have similar casting ideas.

[steven22]

Posted: 11/28/16 at 5:15pm

Louise Dearman for Diana! Just saw her in Sideshow and she was phenomenal. 

[aaaaaa15]

Posted: 11/28/16 at 6:56pm

I could definitely get on board with Louise as Diana.

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 11/29/16 at 4:23pm

Also David Stone who owns the rights and also making millions from Wicked, wouldn't be concerned with making a very minute profit in the West End, not really worth his hassle, so he won't release the rights.

So what I think will happen is in 8-15 years time he will allow somewhere mentioned above perform it in London for the first time, with an eye on a transfer for the first Broadway revival.

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 12/8/16 at 4:51am

Apparently there was a Japanese production:

• next to normal?2013? ????????????????????? - ?????????????????? ???

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AB%E3%83%93%E3%82%A2%E3%83%BB%E3%82%B0%E3%83%A9%E3%83%96

http://okepi.net/kangeki/340
Updated On: 12/8/16 at 04:51 AM

[bdn223]

Posted: 12/8/16 at 1:21pm

Before I get into my take on why I must disagree with previous posters who labeled the Next to Normal a Mid-Scale Musical. Below are in my opinion the difference between Small, Mid, and Large sized Broadway musicals.

Small sized Musical: Generally have casts of less then 10 members(excluding understudies). Small Sized musicals generally don't require an chorus, and if a show has one, its usually a small 3 person Greek-styled chorus.The orchestra requires less then 10 musicians (this does not include a synthesizer being used to replace  other instruments). 

Examples: Next to Normal, Title of Show, Fun Home, The Last 5 Years, Avenue Q, Little Shop of Horrors. 

Mid-Sized Musicals- In my opinion is what most modern musicals are. They  have cast of about 10 to 30 members. The orchestra pit  is generally made up of of less then 27 musicians. In the current climate I would actually reduce the pit to under 20 musicians. 

Examples: Hairspray, Hamilton, Spring Awakening, Jersey Boys, Chicago, Waitress, Newsies, Once, 

Large Size Musicals- This is what most of the classic musicals of the golden era fall into. They generally require a cast with more then 30 members and a pit of 27 or more musicians.

Examples include The King and I, On the Town, South Pacific

**There is a difference between a musical's written size and a production of that musical's size. They can easily be defined by their capitalization and weekly running cost, but below is my breakdown of that that their capitalization and weekly running can be made up of. Please note that these numbers are for new productions as producing cost have risen over the years.

Small Scaled Production-  Has a capitalization of less then $7 million and/or a weekly running cost under $400k. This is generally made of a  a cast of under 15 members, with an orchestra of less then 10 musicians. Uses a unit set or a bare stage with a the occasional set piece, and props to define a scenes location. Uses generally basic costumes, or has the cast in the same costumes throughout the entire production.

Mid-Sized production-  Has a capitalization between $7 million and $12 million and/or a weekly running cost between $400k and $750k. The cast with less then 30 members and has a pit with less then 27 musicians. They use either a unit set, or sets that use a few pieces to define a set location, instead using grandiose sets that completely transform the set from one scene location to another. In regards to costumes, you would not generally regard the the costumes as a whole as being extravagant, their may be extravagant costumes during a particular scene though.

Please note that a production can still be mid sized with if it has extravagant costumes or a grandiose designed set, as long as it does not have both. For example Hamilton has what I would consider to be extravagant period costumes, but utilizes a basic unit set. On the other end of the spectrum the 2016 Roundabout revival of She Loves Me, had a very grandiose set, but rather simple costumes. Both of these productions would be considered Mid-Sized. 

Large Scale Productions-. Has a capitalization greater then $12 million and/or a weekly running cost over $750k. Generally have cast of more then 30 members, and have an orchestra of 27 or more musicians. Have several grandiose sets and costumes. The production uses special effects such as wire work for flying, pyrotechnics, or falling chandeliers, flying/levitating vehicles....

As I noted previously a musical's written size and production size can be different below are different examples of these combinations in my opinion.

Small Musical/Small Production- Next to Normal (Original Production), Title of Show (Original Production), Fun Home (Original Production), 

Small Musical/Mid-Sized Production: Avenue Q (Original Broadway Production), Little Women (Original Broadway Production), Little Shop of Horrors (2003 Broadway Revival)

Mid-Sized Musical/Small Production- Godspell (2011 Broadway Revival), Spring Awakening (Original Broadway Production), Once (Original Broadway Production), The Color Purple (2015 Broadway Revival), Sweeney Todd (2005 Broadway Revival), Chicago (1996 Broadway Revival)

Mid-Sized Musical/Mid-Size Production- Newsies (Original Broadway Production), Hairpray (Original Broadway Production), Hamilton (Original Broadway Production), She Loves Me (2016 Broadway Production), Sweeney Todd (Original Broadway Production), Chicago (Original Broadway Production)

Mid-Sized Musical/Large-Size Production- Beauty and the Beast (Original Broadway Production), The Lion King (Original Broadway Production), Phantom of the Opera (Original Broadway Production), The Color Purple (Original Broadway Production), Shrek the Musical (Original Broadway Production), Miss Saigon (Original Broadway Production), Wicked

Large Musical/Mid Sized Production- Ragtime (2009 Broadway Revival), R&H Cinderella (Original Broad Production), 

Large Musical/Large Production- The King and I (2015 Broadway Revival), South Pacific (2008 Broadway Revival), On the Town (2014 Broadway Revival), Spiderman Turn of The Dark, 

 

 Next to Normal, is a small scale musical and unless a director and producer have a lot of money and really want to build a replica House on stage alla August: Osage County, it will be a small-scale production as well. The show only requires a cast of 10 including understudies, and the original production's orchestra was only made up of 6 musicians. Yes the original set was 3 tiered stories, but it was bare bones being made up of industrial piping, glass panels, and incandescent looking (LED) light bulbs, but was essential a symbolic unit set and not a literal one.

Back to the topic though as previous posters have said there isn't much of a market in the West End for Small-Scale Serious Musicals. The West End Musicals that succeed are more often then not crowd pleasers with great production values. British audiences do not seem to see the musical as an equivalent to a straight play in terms of artistic value. They see musicals as solely as pieces of entertainment, where you can turn your mind off and enjoy for 2.5 hours. This is why many fear that Hamilton will not be as big a hit in the West End as it is on Broadway as not only is it about American History, but requires its audience to think and actually ask some tough questions on Race, immigration, and political purpose. 

[aaaaaa15]

Posted: 12/8/16 at 2:16pm

At this point anyone that is questioning whether Hamilton will do well in London isn't paying attention. There hasn't been this much hype for a musical in London since Book of Mormon and we're still 11 months away. I can't go to the theatre in London without hearing someone talk about it. The Hamilton Mixtape was also #3 on UK iTunes this week.

Next to Normal is unfortunately a different matter but it at least deserves a run in a fringe venue. If we can have Side Show and Grey Gardens, we can have Next to Normal.