He Won't Be Fired- Page 3
He Won't Be Fired
bk
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/20/03
#50He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/14/20 at 5:02pm
SporkGoddess said: "Why? What is it that you are advocating at this point?
Again, that the production understands people's concerns but is taking extra steps to ensure that Amar's presence is not upsetting to the women in the production and that they know something will be done if he pulls anything with them. If they feel that is being met with their standard sexual harassment trainings, then make that explicit. Personally, I would also want them to take steps beyond just offering sexual harassment training, which is expected and standard at workplaces and doesn't exactly prove that a workplace will be safe for women.
I also really want a statement from Amar. Iknow he is limited in what he can say right now. But, as I've said a bazillion times in these discussions, maybe then don't cast him until the court case is over.
Part of the reason I'm so bothered about this productionis because they have done such a TERRIBLE job responding to the outrage. This is just another example of that."
Well, it's not about you and what you want, is it? This man has made an error in judgment - ONE error, for which he has apologized to the person involved. ONE incident. Go have a problem with Chase Finlay, who is the real villain here, if you must have a villain.
SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/27/05
#51He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/14/20 at 5:07pm
Well, it's not about you and what you want, is it? This man has made an error in judgment - ONE error, for which he has apologized to the person involved. ONE incident. Go have a problem with Chase Finlay, who is the real villain here, if you must have a villain.
I mean this is a PR thing, people like me are the ones who are protesting so if they want this to go away then maybe consider what we'd like (note: I'm not actually protesting, just personally electing not to see this production or support it in any way). If they don't care, which is what i'm guessing is the case, then that's their choice. But we're still allowed to be upset about that.
Also, another reason I'm so bothered by this is the way people are completely minimizing what Amar did. By the way, supposedly he apologized to Alexa, but he also hurt Alexandra by egging Chase to send him photos.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
Updated On: 2/14/20 at 05:07 PM
Sunny11
Broadway Star Joined: 9/3/14
#52He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/14/20 at 5:08pm
Could this be part of the reason that the show has such a long preview at over 2 months? Maybe they wanted a buffering period between “ opening “ and the official reviews being released, hoping that outrage would die down by the time the critics made their final evaluation.
Updated On: 2/14/20 at 05:08 PM
#53He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/14/20 at 6:08pm
bk said: "SporkGoddess said: "Why? What is it that you are advocating at this point?
Again, that the production understands people's concerns but is taking extra steps to ensure that Amar's presence is not upsetting to the women in the production and that they know something will be done if he pulls anything with them. If they feel that is being met with their standard sexual harassment trainings, then make that explicit. Personally, I would also want them to take steps beyond just offering sexual harassment training, which is expected and standard at workplaces and doesn't exactly prove that a workplace will be safe for women.
I also really want a statement from Amar. Iknow he is limited in what he can say right now. But, as I've said a bazillion times in these discussions, maybe then don't cast him until the court case is over.
Part of the reason I'm so bothered about this productionis because they have done such a TERRIBLE job responding to the outrage. This is just another example of that."
Well, it's not about you and what you want, is it? This man has made an error in judgment - ONE error, for which he has apologized to the person involved. ONE incident. Go have a problem with Chase Finlay, who is the real villain here, if you must have a villain. "
They are both villains. Amar paid for Alexandra’s photos by sending his own stash. A transaction was made. He saw a persons girlfriend, a colleague, and girl he knows private body areas, and he paid to see it.
What has he done to make it up to Alexandra who has to always know that he stared at her photos without her consent? It’s gross, and he’s done nothing to make it right for her.
#54He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/14/20 at 6:22pm
Luminaire2 said: "What has he done to make it up to Alexandra who has to always know that he stared at her photos without her consent? That he likely utilized those photos to do you know what in private. It’s gross, and he’s done nothing to make it right for her."
Enough of that talk. Stop it.
"Bravo" to "West Side Story" for standing by Amar. BRAVO
Non sibi sed patriae
Updated On: 2/14/20 at 06:22 PM
#55He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/14/20 at 6:31pm
SporkGoddess said: "Again, that the production understands people's concerns but is taking extra steps to ensure that Amar's presence is not upsetting to the women in the production and that they know something will be done if he pulls anything with them. If they feel that is being met with their standard sexual harassment trainings, then make that explicit. Personally, I would also want them to take steps beyond just offering sexual harassment training, which is expected and standard at workplaces and doesn't exactly prove that a workplace will be safe for women.
I also really want a statement from Amar. Iknow he is limited in what he can say right now. But, as I've said a bazillion times in these discussions, maybe then don't cast him until the court case is over.
Part of the reason I'm so bothered about this productionis because they have done such a TERRIBLE job responding to the outrage. This is just another example of that."
With all due respect, this post betrays a lack of knowledge and understanding of the process as well as, perhaps, a sense of entitlement on your part for which I can discern no explanation. There is, you see, a union that represents and speaks for all of these people that you seem to want to speak. It happens to be a union that takes expressions of concern along the lines that you imagine exist quite seriously, yet it has either not heard from anyone or has determined that there is nothing actionable. That's why I asked what you were advocating. It seems to exist in an alternate universe. Beyond this, I think you get that this is a PR issue. The production has chosen how to handle that, as is its prerogative, and that leaves you with every right to protest and boycott etc based on the choices they have made, starting with the choice to hire him in the first place. I hope you can appreciate why some clear reflection might be in order at this point.
#56He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/14/20 at 6:37pm
Luminaire2 said: "What has he done to make it up to Alexandra who has to always know that he stared at her photos without her consent? That he likely utilized those photos to do you know what in private. It’s gross, and he’s done nothing to make it right for her."
Everything you say may be true, but I ask as I asked in the post the response to which you responded to: what is it that you are advocating? On whose behalf are you entitled to speak (other than your own, as can be manifested by protesting, boycotting and so on)?
#57He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/14/20 at 9:31pm
I didn't realize that Alexandra Waterbury has been actively involved in these protests in front of the theater. Although I agree with many of the points brought up here that complicate the issue, Waterbury's involvement and the weight it gives to these demonstrations seems to have gotten lost in many of the responses here.
Protesters respond to ‘West Side Story’ statement
#58He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/14/20 at 9:56pm
sinister teashop said: "I didn't realize that Alexandra Waterbury has been actively involved in these protests in front of the theater. Although I agree with manyof the points brought up here thatcomplicate the issue, Waterbury's involvement and the weight it gives to these demonstrations seems to have gotten lost in many of the responses here."
Again, clarity would be nice. No one here is suggesting that what he did was ok. I don't think anyone here questions the right to protest. But there are two very important points being overlooked by the protesters.
First, they are asking the production to do something illegal: fire someone without cause. [I wonder how many here and in the protests would like to be fired without cause. And yes, it is without cause, because the law says so. Don't like the law? Lobby to get it changed, but the producers cannot change the laws. And this brings us to the second point, and that is highlighted by a quote in the linked piece: “Legality does not equal morality.” That is a true statement but a dangerously slippery slope. Gays have been fired because of "morality." Jews have been fired because of "morality." (among many others.) How many of you and those on the sidewalk have actually thought this through? I say again what I have said several times before. Think.
#59He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/14/20 at 10:29pm
I think Alexandra Waterbury is a rather courageous young woman.
#60He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/14/20 at 11:44pm
HogansHero said: "sinister teashop said: "I didn't realize that Alexandra Waterbury has been actively involved in these protests in front of the theater. Although I agree with manyof the points brought up here thatcomplicate the issue, Waterbury's involvement and the weight it gives to these demonstrations seems to have gotten lost in many of the responses here."
Again, clarity would be nice. No one here is suggesting that what he did was ok. I don't think anyone here questions the right to protest. But there are two very important points being overlooked by the protesters.
First, they are asking the production to do something illegal: fire someone without cause. [I wonder how many here and in the protests would like to be fired without cause. And yes, it is without cause, because the law says so. Don't like the law? Lobby to get it changed, but the producers cannot change the laws. And this brings us to the second point, and that is highlighted by a quote in the linked piece:“Legality does not equal morality.” That is a true statement but a dangerously slippery slope. Gays have been fired because of "morality." Jews have been fired because of "morality." (among many others.) How many of you and those on the sidewalk have actually thought this through? I say again what I have said several times before. Think."
This has to be one of the most well thought out and astute responses addressing this issue. So much the voice of reason amongst all the misguided noise that makes up much of this thread.
You Can Disagree Without Being Disagreeable
burymeincalamine
Swing Joined: 1/24/20
#61He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 12:38am
Amar has "resigned" from City Ballet, per the NYT article that featured statements with Alexa Maxwell. He will never dance there again. He wasn't wanted. West Side Story producers, take note.
CT2NYC
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/7/17
#62He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 1:02am
burymeincalamine said: "Amar has "resigned" from City Ballet, per the NYT article that featured statements with Alexa Maxwell. He will never dance there again. He wasn't wanted.West Side Story producers, take note."
This article?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/arts/dance/amar-ramasar-west-side-story.html
Did you read it? Chase Finlay "resigned," and Amar "regained his job."
bk
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/20/03
#63He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 2:21am
burymeincalamine said: "Amar has "resigned" from City Ballet, per the NYT article that featured statements with Alexa Maxwell. He will never dance there again. He wasn't wanted.West Side Story producers, take note."
Um, no. He is a member there. Do you feel good posting outright lies?
bk
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/20/03
#64He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 2:23am
Luminaire2 said: "bk said: "SporkGoddess said: "Why? What is it that you are advocating at this point?
Again, that the production understands people's concerns but is taking extra steps to ensure that Amar's presence is not upsetting to the women in the production and that they know something will be done if he pulls anything with them. If they feel that is being met with their standard sexual harassment trainings, then make that explicit. Personally, I would also want them to take steps beyond just offering sexual harassment training, which is expected and standard at workplaces and doesn't exactly prove that a workplace will be safe for women.
I also really want a statement from Amar. Iknow he is limited in what he can say right now. But, as I've said a bazillion times in these discussions, maybe then don't cast him until the court case is over.
Part of the reason I'm so bothered about this productionis because they have done such a TERRIBLE job responding to the outrage. This is just another example of that."
Well, it's not about you and what you want, is it? This man has made an error in judgment - ONE error, for which he has apologized to the person involved. ONE incident. Go have a problem with Chase Finlay, who is the real villain here, if you must have a villain. "
They are both villains. Amar paid for Alexandra’s photos by sending his own stash. A transaction was made. He saw a persons girlfriend, a colleague, and girl he knows private body areas, and he paid to see it.
What has he done to make it up to Alexandra who has to always know that he stared at her photos without her consent? That he likely utilized those photos to do you know what in private. It’s gross, and he’s done nothing to make it right for her."
Is one photo a "stash?" No. As to the rest of your disgusting suppositions, they are just that - your own mind imagining stuff that you have no knowledge of ("That he likely utilized those photos to do you know what in private." - I mean, really).
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#65He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 4:57am
<<edited by BWW staff>>
Again: no one thinks what he did was good, right, or admirable. We're just saying that people can/do learn from their mistakes, and deserve second chances.
I wouldnt judge any employer that considered his prior actions as part of the decision making. But people need to be able to work.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
Updated On: 2/15/20 at 04:57 AM
#66He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 9:47am
sinister teashop said: "I think Alexandra Waterbury is a rather courageous young woman."
And I think Amar Ramasar is a rather courageous young man.
Non sibi sed patriae
SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/27/05
#67He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 9:54am
We're just saying that people can/do learn from their mistakes, and deserve second chances.
We have no evidence that he's learned from it. The court case isn't even over yet. He hasn't been allowed to make any public statements.
<<edited by BWW staff>>
As we've discussed in other threads on this, this sort of act is not about sex. It's far more sinister.
Also, I get it if some of you don't want him fired and think that he should be able to work. But can you say that without calling him "courageous" or minimizing what he did? Honestly, that sort of thing is bothering me more than his actual casting.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
Updated On: 2/15/20 at 09:54 AM
#68He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 8:51am
dramamama611 said: "<<edited by BWW staff>>
Again: no one thinks what he did was good, right, or admirable. We're just saying that people can/do learn from their mistakes, and deserve second chances.
I wouldnt judge any employer that considered his prior actions as part of the decision making. But people need to be able to work."
THIS.
"There’s nothing quite like the power and the passion of Broadway music. "
Updated On: 2/15/20 at 08:51 AM
#69He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 11:07am
Sunny11 said: "Could this be part of the reason that the show has such a long preview at over2 months? Maybe they wanted a buffering periodbetween “ opening “ and the official reviews being released, hoping thatoutrage would die down by the time the critics made their final evaluation."
While that may be part of the reason, I'm banking on it being mainly because Ivo's usual directorial style (where the producers don't really see the whole picture until the first preview) may have allowed them insurance in case his vastly non-traditional take was so screwed that they had to start from scratch or bring in consultants to tweak it (which they indeed have, lest we forget Sergio Trujillo's current position on the show).
Formerly gvendo2005
Broadway Legend
joined: 5/1/05
Blocked: After Eight, suestorm, david_fick, emlodik, lovebwy, Dave28282, joevitus, BorisTomashevsky
Broadway Legend
joined: 5/1/05
Blocked: After Eight, suestorm, david_fick, emlodik, lovebwy, Dave28282, joevitus, BorisTomashevsky
#70He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 12:00pm
CT2NYC said: "I'm just wondering at what point Amar has grounds to file a lawsuit of his own. Being falsely labeled a workplace sex offender in an effort to get youfired from your job seems pretty criminal to me."
He can sue for libel, slander, tortious interference, or whatever, and whether he has grounds or not. Regardless, none of those things are criminal.
#71He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 1:21pm
poisonivy2 said: "Highland Guy is obviously Rush Limbaugh."
I mean I’m all for discussion, disagreement, different opinions... but to call him courageous? Just gross.
#74He Won't Be Fired
Posted: 2/15/20 at 2:49pm
I personally don’t want him fired. I am just annoyed over how all of this has been handled.
Also since their statement the petition has soared. Last i checked it was around 26,000+ signatures, it’s now coming on 40,000.
Amazing how you can become your own enemy if you don’t handle these things correctly.
