If one musical survives 200 years from now- Page 2

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 9/3/20 at 11:41pm

It’s an interesting question. I always think the Pulitzer winners should almost be more popular than they are but Next to Normal, while it had a good run and made some money, wasn’t a crazy phenomenon. But I think it’s such a brilliant piece of theater and so relatable.

I watched Hamilton on Disney+ and it was fine. Some great writing, but I’d be curious to see another production of it.

[blaxx]

Posted: 9/4/20 at 12:16am

TotallyEffed said: "I just think it's silly to call great pieces of art "dated." Of course they are dated, they aren't brand new. Streetcar is "dated," but it's a timeless masterpiece. Eventually great works become classics."

You're right, but some of the most powerful pieces are directed to their own place and time.

That's why a lot of writers tend to focus on universal themes and very few write about their own times, they have less staying power. 

Shows like A Chorus Line, ReNt, ITH, etc. can be seen extremely relevant today, but will lose their steam as their worlds move forward. 

[MadonnaMusical]

Posted: 9/4/20 at 9:09pm

It’s already become pretty obvious which shows of the 20th century will survive: Show Boat, Oklahoma, The Sound of Music, Carousel, South Pacific, Sweeney Todd, A Little Night Music, Into the Woods, Evita, Phantom of the Opera, Gypsy, West Side Story, Candide, Jesus Christ Superstar, Ragtime, Dreamgirls, Les Miserables, Miss Saigon.... things that survive tend to depend on the Composer as much as how big of a hit it was.

Of the 21st Century... I imagine Hamilton, The Light in the Piazza, in the Heights... Natasha, Pierre & the Great Comet of 1812... I just imagine it will age well.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 9/4/20 at 11:20pm

Guys and Dolls. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 9/5/20 at 1:30am

Sweeney Todd

[blaxx]

Posted: 9/5/20 at 1:52am

MadonnaMusical said: "It’s already become pretty obvious which shows of the 20th century will survive: Show Boat, Oklahoma, The Sound of Music, Carousel, South Pacific, Sweeney Todd, A Little Night Music, Into the Woods, Evita, Phantom of the Opera, Gypsy, West Side Story, Candide, Jesus Christ Superstar, Ragtime, Dreamgirls, Les Miserables, Miss Saigon.... things that survive tend to depend on the Composer as much as how big of a hit it was.

Of the 21st Century... I imagine Hamilton, The Light in the Piazza, in the Heights... Natasha, Pierre & the Great Comet of 1812... I just imagine it will age well. "

You got the 21st century wrong. Just the lotto prize in ITH is already laughable.

[ImaginaryManticore]

Posted: 9/5/20 at 7:34am

blaxx said: "TotallyEffed said: "I just think it's silly to call great pieces of art "dated." Of course they are dated, they aren't brand new. Streetcar is "dated," but it's a timeless masterpiece. Eventually great works become classics."

You're right, but some of the most powerful pieces are directed to their own place and time.

That's why a lot of writers tend to focus on universal themes and very few write about their own times, they have less staying power.

Shows like A Chorus Line, ReNt, ITH, etc. can be seen extremely relevant today, but will lose their steam as their worlds move forward."

This is true, but every so often you get writers writing about their own time and still touching upon universal themes. Jane Austen's novels were entirely about the society she knew, but they're now more acclaimed than ever even though our world is completely different.

Even though A Chorus Line is as specific as you can get in terms of the characters and experiences, it's so truthful that I think parts are actually universal. I really want it to have staying power, but then again its original staging is still so essential to the entire piece.

[MaineTheaterGoer]

Posted: 9/5/20 at 5:21pm

kdogg36 said: "I don’t see any reason why the major works of Rodgers and Hammerstein or Sondheim won’t be remembered as well as those of Mozart or Verdi are remembered today."

I agree. Also Shakespeare --> Romeo & Juliet --> West Side Story. 

There are plenty of others.

[Ledaero]

Posted: 9/6/20 at 12:43am

Oklahoma, West Side Story, Gypsy, and Phantom of the Opera. Maybe Hamilton if it survives the social criticisms that are emerging. And maybe Follies from an academic perspective.

[joevitus]

Posted: 9/6/20 at 4:16am

It will probably be Show Boat. That's the work that has had the most longevity, thus far (thought current p.c. makes any sort of near-future revival impossible).

[binau]

Posted: 9/6/20 at 8:19am

Sweeney Todd

[Princeton2]

Posted: 9/6/20 at 9:11am

Honestly maybe none. What survives from the old music hall days or even the early days of musical theatre in the 20s? barely anything.

I could see maybe R&H, Lerner and Lowe, Sondheim, some ALW and B&S being done the way opera and operettas are done now for very limited runs but not much more. Many of the golden age musicals are already having shorter and shorter runs when revived now. I think also shows need to prove they can survive beyond their initial production and Phantom is struggling to prove that so the juries out on that one.

Hamilton is already looking questionable due to societal changes and upcoming generations viewing it differently. Every generation disapproves of aspects of generations that went before it so its unsurprising this is happening.

If you look at Shakespeare they are good timeless stories with universal and timeless themes and are easily adaptable to different settings. Musicals are harder to do that with. If The Wizard of Oz survives as cinematic history maybe Wicked as its themes are timeless and so is its setting. But musical theatre is a relatively new artform so who knows how it will evolve over time.

Post covid musicals may become unsustainable because all it would take is another pandemic and theatres would shut again or at least social distancing brought back. Will producers want to put on big expensive musicals when there is always the threat they could be shut down or operate at 50% capacity.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 9/6/20 at 6:13pm

Princeton2 said: "I think also shows need to prove they can survive beyond their initial production and Phantom is struggling to prove that so the juries out on that one."

I mean, you can argue about how well the most recent North American tour was liked on this board, but the fact is it ran successfully for six and a half years. It has also done quite well in licensing amongst high schools and colleges, and will probably have a glut of productions should professional licensing become available. Clearly the larger majority of the public is not as tied to the Hal Prince production as people on this board would believe.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 9/6/20 at 6:35pm

This thread's most recent posts seem to have shifted the conversation a bit. The OP was asking which musical SHOULD survive in the hypothetical, imaginary scenario in which only one musical could.

The question isn't which musical WILL survive in real life. That's an interesting question in itself, but I think it ignores some of the realities of our modern world. In the Music Hall era, there were no cast recordings, social media, pro-shots, or bootlegs to help them last through the years. With our current technology and culture, it's very unlikely that any major piece of musical theatre will really be lost to time. Most may fade into obscurity, or become culturally irrelevant, but it's highly unlikely that any scenario will come about where the entire cannon is obliterated with the exception of 1 musical. 

The more likely scenario is that all musical theatre gets wiped out at the same time that the human race goes extinct due to climate change. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 9/6/20 at 7:20pm

You're right that I was answering the wrong question, but I think even answering the correct question, my answer would remain the same. I may like many of the R&H shows better, or some of the L&L or The Most Happy Fella or the work of Sondheim. But I think as an example of the form to define the form when it otherwise is forgotten, Show Boat still seems to me to be ideal.

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 9/8/20 at 10:25am

Book Of Mormon -lol. Just teasing everyone !!

[Jarethan]

Posted: 9/8/20 at 4:56pm

Thinking about it more, I think there is a very good question re that will survive in musical theatre houses 200 years from now.  How many musical have really survived from the 1930s?  

We may want to say that before the 1940s doesn't count because so many were essentially revues before then, and that revues are simply not what most audiences want to see today, e.g.,  5-6 years ago, After Midnight received great reviews, but could not find an audience.  What is the likelihood that even today we are going to see revivals of any hit revues, except perhaps (God Forbid) Smoky Joe's Cafe or Rock of Ages?  Tastes change.   Who knows what is popular today will be reviled in 50 years, let along 200?  

I think that it is possible that nothing will survive as traditional musical theatre still being presented in real theatres...not even sure how many songs will survive.  Anyone wanna listen to a few madrigals or a medley of Stephen Foster songs?

200 years is a long time.  If I had to put money on it, i would bet that the things most likely to survive will be those that are suitable to be performed for limited performances per season in opera houses, perhaps Show Boat, Sweeney Todd, A Little Night Music, The Most Happy Fella, Candide, maybe Les Mis, maybe Phantom, maybe 1776, maybe MFL, maybe Oklahoma, maybe Fiddler, and a few others.  Definitely not a lot.  

I doubt that any musical comedies will survive without totally new books and some songs eliminated, simply because they will become so dated.  I will never actually know, but I would be shocked back to life if Hello Dolly or or The Producers or Mame (some of my all-time favorite shows) or How to Succeed or Little Me or Book of Mormon or A Funny Thing survive.

Of course, the other issues impacting real answers are more interesting to reflect upon:

   -- Will there be a thriving planet in 200 years, per JBroadway's last sentence?

   -- TV has changed theatergoing habits for good (think of how many more dramas and light comedies used to open in a season even into the 60s at least)?.  How will the evolution of TV further impact theatregoing (and interest in seeing 200 year old musicals).

    -- What opportunities are technology advances going to introduce?  As an example, will live performances be available to view inexpensively and holographically from your home, will you ever have to go to a theatre to feel like you are really in a theatre seeing something live?  What advances in Virtual Reality will occur.  Who knows what impact those advances would have on incenting people to mine old treasures, especially if shows can be recreated relatively cheaply, e.g., by computers.  This of course requires there to be audience interest.

   -- How much free time will people have on their hands?  The more free time, the higher possibility of old works being mined.  

   -- What will productions cost to open and run? Will old classics actually be revived with the expectation of running for 'reasonable durations' in live theatre performances and / or will much better versions of the TV performances over the past decade be available, again to the point where you really feel you are in a theatre and the performers are right there live?

   -- What will tastes actually demand 200 years from now.

 

I am sure this sounds like pretentious twiddle, but just think of the impact of technology advances over the past 30 years alone.  And think of all the subjects on this board opining on what shows have dated well, what shows are not politically correct, etc.