Let it go lawsuit
Let it go lawsuit
#1Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 12:36pmI just listened to the other song and I think he's got a case.
#2Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 12:37pm
You assume everyone knows what you're talking about?
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#3Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 12:39pm
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
broadwaysfguy
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/27/14
#4Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 12:42pm
i just listened to the Volar song and also think this guy may never have to work again....the chorus chords and phrasing are almost identical....Disney can afford this one....
#5Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 12:50pm
Hearing his song, I don't think the similarities are enough for a lawsuit against Disney. Not to mention, he'd still have to prove they were even familiar with his song at all. Suing Idina Menzel and Demi Lovato make zero sense, especially since the actual composer and lyricist don't seem to be named in the lawsuit. This is a play for money and publicity.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#6Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 1:01pm
Mister Matt said: "Hearing his song, I don't think the similarities are enough for a lawsuit against Disney. Not to mention, he'd still have to prove they were even familiar with his song at all. Suing Idina Menzel and Demi Lovato make zero sense, especially since the actual composer and lyricist don't seem to be named in the lawsuit. This is a play for money and publicity."
Not necessarily, Sam Smith had to pay Tom Petty and he claimed to not know the song.
He is getting a settlement.
#7Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 1:49pm
Listened to both and it seems like a frivolous suit to me. If you merge "let it" into one note, then the notes on the phrase "Let It Go" and on the word "Volar" are the same, but literally none of the rest of the music sounded even remotely similar to me, and message of the songs seems exactly opposite to me (together with you i can fly, versus let go of trying to please everyone else and stop trying to be the good girl for everyone else's sake). I'd be shocked if the courts awarded this to him.
carolinaguy
Broadway Star Joined: 10/13/06
#8Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 1:49pmAnd he waited four years why? Needed some money?
I'm sending pictures of the most amazing trees/You'll be obsessed with all my forest expertise
#9Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 1:52pmhuh you think he would have noticed they ripped him off sometime within the last four years
"Contentment, it seems, simply happens. It appears accompanied by no bravos and no tears."
#10Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 1:55pm
Not necessarily, Sam Smith had to pay Tom Petty and he claimed to not know the song.
Sam Smith claimed it was a coincidence while immediately agreeing to a settlement giving Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne co-writing credits and a cut of the royalties. Settling is not the same as "had to pay", which sounds like a court judgment. It sounds like Sam immediately knew it would be a losing battle against a bigger machine. This new case is a VERY different suit. The money, power and notoriety are all behind Disney, not Jaime Ciero. Disney could simply pay him off to stop the publicity OR they could tie this up legally until he could no longer afford to continue the suit. Sam Smith saying a Tom Petty/Jeff Lynne songs is "coincidental" is not at all the same thing to saying Anderson & Lopez knowingly plagiarized a Spanish-language song from a Chilean pop singer. Perhaps Anderson & Lopez are wrapped up in the Disney language of the defendant, but the inclusion of Mendel and Lovato make me think this guy assumes he'll get a big settlement.
It reminds me of Repp vs. Lloyd Webber. There's a good summary of it here that goes into more detail about proving knowledge of the previous work as well as how much of the material needs to be proven identical. I agree that the two measures of Volar and Let It Go are curiously similar, but I'm not convinced it's enough to prove plagiarism. The rest of the composition is not immediately similar enough and would require technical composition expert analysis.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Tom5
Broadway Star Joined: 9/23/11
#11Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 1:57pm
The similarities are striking, but both compositions are so simple I would guess the duplications were entirely inadvertent. I don't if "inadvertent" would make a case in court. But it was a stupid move to sue Idina PR-wise.
#12Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 2:04pm
But how striking is it really to have a 4-note sequence in one song resembled a 6-note sequence in another song, with none of the rest of it overlapping musically, and none of it at all overlapping lyrically (not even in translation)? Isn't it like saying that two songs with the words "to the store" and no other overlap mean that one plagiarised the other? Or more cynically, 'our song uses the letters "th" next to each other several times, and so does theirs'? Can such a short run of similar notes with no other notes and no words being similar really be the basis of a finding of plagiarism? If so, it's a bit shocking. Especially since with only 12 notes to choose from and millions of songs out there, a few overlapping notes seems pretty much inevitable.
#13Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 2:13pm
But how striking is it really to have a 4-note sequence in one song resembled a 6-note sequence in another song, with none of the rest of it overlapping musically, and none of it at all overlapping lyrically (not even in translation)?
It reminds me of when people use the phrase "note for note" who know nothing about music theory and composition. It's like saying "I'm in the house" is a word-for-word copy of "I'm not going to be in the house for a week while it's being fumigated".
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#14Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 2:42pm
I love reading these threads when members like MM and Adam give such detailed knowledge about a subject I know nothing---thank you guys for your info.[seriously].
#15Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 2:51pm
but doesn’t the copyright law state that something is only technically plagiarized if eight or more notes are the same? hence why stephen schwartz could make the 7-note reference to over the rainbow with his “unlimited” motif in wicked? the chorus of Volar is a bit similar to Let it Go but it really does seem like a coincidence.
"Contentment, it seems, simply happens. It appears accompanied by no bravos and no tears."
Updated On: 11/24/17 at 02:51 PM
loliveve
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/24/12
#16Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 2:53pm
Well, this is interesting.
There is generally a three-year statute of limitations on copyright violation claims, and it has been more than three years since the film was released. Unless he was hiding under a rock, I don't know how he could claim he didn't have knowledge of the song for more than a year.
Music copyright cases are hecka interesting though, and can involve music mapping (pretty cool graphic designs) for the jury to try to see similarities and not just hear them.
Personally, I don't hear enough similarities, and just writing out a bit didn't see enough on paper either. But I'm not a music expert, so who knows. It is quite possible that Disney would calculate the costs of a trial and music experts, and then settle for that amount simply because it is more efficient. (For that reason, don't be too shocked when you hear things settle out of court: many cases do settle simply because--even if the defense has a really, REALLY strong case--it is costly to go to trial, so they may settle an action just to try to save some of that cost, without admitting liability).
#17Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 2:55pmif he is awarded a credit or anything like that, would he be belatedly awarded the Academy Award for Best Original Song??
"Contentment, it seems, simply happens. It appears accompanied by no bravos and no tears."
DaveyG
Leading Actor Joined: 8/11/05
#18Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 3:53pm
I think AdamPeterson44 is right - I can't imagine this lawsuit leading to anything for the plaintiff. The chord progression used at the top of the choruses for both songs (which he is obviously suing over) is extremely common. The "I–V–vi–IV progression" can be found in hundreds of popular songs written over the last hundred years - songs from "Auld Lange Syne" to "Don't Stop Believing" to "Hello" by Adele. The melody of Ciero's song has similarities to Let It Go for the first two bars, but hardly enough material to imply plagiarism - I'd be shocked if Ciero got a penny from anyone.
#19Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 5:05pm
I'm betting the lawsuits against the singers are dismissed. The lawsuit against Disney will be settled "out of court" with an undisclosed settlement of which the plaintiff will be set for life, and DIsney will admit to 'no wrong doing'. The songs are similar enough where Disney will want this to 'go away' before the musical opens on Broadway. They don't need this to distract anyone.
#20Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 6:00pm
I’m no attorney or expert on this matter, so perhaps someone could answer these questions for me:
Why isn’t he suing the composers? They’re the ones who would have allegedly “stolen” his song. Is it because they’re not well known the way Disney, Idina Menzel, and Demi Lovato are?
Why did he wait so long to come forward? This isn’t a sexual assault case, he couldn’t have been suffering from any trauma that would otherwise preclude him from coming forward.
#21Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 6:15pm
Why isn’t he suing the composers? They’re the ones who would have allegedly “stolen” his song. Is it because they’re not well known the way Disney, Idina Menzel, and Demi Lovato are?
I'm sure that's how it's being reported, but the technicalities are probably all wrapped up in the corporate entities under Disney, but Disney, Menzel and Lovato are the NEWSWORTHY "names" known to have profited from the song.
Why did he wait so long to come forward?
Well, I wonder how long it took him to figure out how to sue and find an attorney to draft and file the suit, which could take a long time when you're suing a behemoth like Disney while having to craft a bogus suit in order to maximize press coverage.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
RippedMan
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/14/05
#22Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 10:12pm
I guess I have been hiding under a rock by how is Demi Lovato involved? When did she sing the song? Like enough for her to get mention in this? I always thought it was Menzel's song.
Updated On: 11/24/17 at 10:12 PM
seaweedjstubbs
Broadway Star Joined: 3/21/07
#24Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/24/17 at 11:16pmThe odd thing is that the artist is suing the singers that Disney paid and not the actual writers (the Lopezes) themselves. He legit thought Demi wrote this?
#25Let it go lawsuit
Posted: 11/25/17 at 12:22am
RippedMan said: "I guess I have been hiding under a rock by how is Demi Lovato involved? When did she sing the song? Like enough for her to get mention in this? I always thought it was Menzel's song."
Lovato sang the pop version that was supposed to be the radio ready version (similar to Vanessa Williams recording Colors of the Wind all those years ago). However, most people calling into the stations wanted to hear Menzel’s version, and the Lovato version did not get the airplay they thought it would (while the film version got a whole lot more airplay than I think they anticipated).
