Paulson expose On Great Comet controversy- Page 8

[mullein]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 9:46am

Even if you consider the show a standalone piece (and not a part of the narrative of the novel where Natasha and Pierre do get married) it seems to hint on a romantic continuation to me... Love Mandy but would never be able to see him in this role without feeling incredibly uncomfortable in the final scene. There's a time and place for everything.

[haterobics]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 10:05am

Do you people see a lot of Hollywood movies? Cuz it's always like Richard Gere and... some girl in her 20s, heh.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 10:11am

@bear88 re zeitgeist (perhaps a euphemism for word of mouth). Let's not forget that in most cases it has to be manufactured. That's producing. I think CFA was close to an exception but I suspect even there that it was well lubricated. Comet had zeitgeist at Ars Nova, and it continued downtown. The uptown tent never really sustained that feeling and then the Broadway engagement could never decide what it was selling. To me the show was about a special and (I hate this word but...) unique experience and the message was "you gotta get in this space." But on Broadway it became the Josh Groban show (until it literally turned its back on him, and then what?) As we have rehearsed it is highly unlikely it could have done enough at the Imperial but it had a window and they let it close.

[schubox]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 11:07am

poisonivy2 said: "schubox said: "SporkGoddess said: "Am I the only one who didn't want to see a 64 year old man pining for a 24 year old girl? Creepy af.

Plus, in War and Piece Pierre is in his 20s. I know that the show generally seems to portrayhim as older, but I'm not a fan of that, either."

There's no pining. I walked out of the theater with way too many people who apparently didn't pay attention to the show.

He isn't coming on to her or even expressing any romantic feelings toward her. They do end up together, but it's years later. He had always carried affection for her, and when he heard what happened envisioned her as another Helene, but upon seeing her, he changed his mind.

His speech at the end is just him, cheering her up, to use a crude phrase."

He says if he weren't married, he would get down on his knees and ask for her hand. And then he goes outside and sees the Great Comet of 1812 and envisions a new beginning for himself. I think the audience is to infer that this is the start of something between Pierre and Natasha."

No, he says, "If I were not myself, But the brightest, Handsomest, Best man on earth, And if I were free,
I would get down on my knees, This minute,And ask you for your hand. And for your love."

Thats a lot different than "I wish I wasn't married so we could hook up." She's tried to kill herself. She said her life is over because no one would want her now. And he says, basically, if he was the best looking, best dude on earth, and was single, he wouldn't hesitate to propose to her. And that fills her with hope.

Now I won't deny there is obvious romantic subtext there, and it's clear there is something there. But he isn't making a romantic overture. And this happens end of 1811/beginning of 1812, and they don't get married until 1813. And a TON of **** happens to both of them, particularly Pierre between this song and their marriage. 

[Kad]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 11:24am

Call_me_jorge said: "^aren't Christine and the phantom usuallya wideage range apart?"

The Phantom is also a sociopathic stalker and murderer, so maybe this isn't a good example.

[mullein]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 11:24am

haterobics said: "Do you people see a lot of Hollywood movies? Cuz it's always like Richard Gere and... some girl in her 20s, heh."

Lol yes and most of the time I still find it sketchy that it's perfectly acceptable for a dude in his 60s to date around in an age group almost 3 times his junior...

[ChairinMain]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 11:58am

mullein said: "haterobics said: "Do you people see a lot of Hollywood movies? Cuz it's always like Richard Gere and... some girl in her 20s, heh."

Lol yes and most of the time Istill find it sketchy that it's perfectly acceptable for a dude in his 60s to date around in an age group almost 3 times his junior..."

 

Well, since we'll never actually SEE this happen, why are we talking about it?

 

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 12:03pm

mullein said: "haterobics said: "Do you people see a lot of Hollywood movies? Cuz it's always like Richard Gere and... some girl in her 20s, heh."

Lol yes and most of the time Istill find it sketchy that it's perfectly acceptable for a dude in his 60s to date around in an age group almost 3 times his junior..."

Looking back I think it's kind of sad they didn't simply give the role of Pierre to Scott, as Scott has an absolutely amazing voice. His voice is actually closer to Josh's in richness/timbre than it is to Dave's voice, which IMO is an acquired taste. Scott acted the role very well too, and the night I saw him got crazy applause after "Dust and Ashes" because he sang the living daylights out of that song. 

I know he wasn't/isn't a big name, but hey, part of the joys of the Great Comet was discovering all these talents. 

[haterobics]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 12:03pm

ChairinMain said: "Well, since we'll never actually SEE this happen, why are we talking about it?"

We're also talking about fictional characters and a production with Mandy Patinkin that didn't happen, so who knows where to draw the lines on such folly?!

[mullein]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 12:11pm

ChairinMain said: "mullein said: "haterobics said: "Do you people see a lot of Hollywood movies? Cuz it's always like Richard Gere and... some girl in her 20s, heh."

Lol yes and most of the time Istill find it sketchy that it's perfectly acceptable for a dude in his 60s to date around in an age group almost 3 times his junior..."



Well, since we'll never actually SEE this happen, why are we talking about it?

"

The same reasons we're talking about anything else remotely adjacent to the production (or people involved in it)? 

[JayElle]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 12:25pm

Hogan, I loved On the Town. Saw it 3 times, but I lived out of state then. Kagan was involved in that too. What happened that made it worse than GC?

[Mediamaven2]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 12:32pm

Interesting all the opinions expressed I agree with many and I appreciate the various twitter links though that might have been mostly from related threads. It's too bad that an issue that seemed in my opinion to be all about the "green" (money) became one that was  black/white. But I guess it is sad that the reality of our society is that with racial issues as they are, it is very difficult for some to see beyond that.

I did think it was interesting that NYT story says they tried to negotiate statements from the publicists from the  show/Oak and CE, but could not come to an agreement! That says something about the remaining discord....they couldn't even agree on some watered down statement?????? Surprising. Makes me think this wasn't just something that got out of hand by outsiders. It remains quite real.

I will choose to focus on the tremendous positive energy this show exuded and gave by all the current performers.  I am so so lucky to  have one more chance to feel that in real time tomorrow at the Sat matinee.  

Updated On: 9/1/17 at 12:32 PM

[carnzee]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 12:33pm

^^^ An even bigger theater, and no Josh Groban.

[JayElle]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 1:26pm

Okay, for all the ink printed on GC's diversity, CE's racism rants, Malloy's & Kagan's mea culpa, fan's distress, I say diversity lacked in one area.  While CE lamented the lack of POC, how about POA?  

People of Age.  

No one is that cast is over 40 that I can telll unless, it's one of the men. And women face more age discrimination in theater, film, recording, (and just about every industry) than other "protected classes." (And please don't suggest post-40 couldn't do the dancing.)

Patinkin would've been great in that role.  If the age difference is such a big deal, then replace Natasha with an older woman, perhaps Amber or Grace. (One patron thought Denee was 15.) 

You say the book's Natasha  was a young girl?  Well, then stick to the book in everything and have the two marry in the end.  Story rewrites always make changes.

Point is, perhaps we should look past the surface and focus on the actor's performance. Dave does a good job bc he wrote it all and knows what he wanted to convey, but his singing voice is lacking.

Mandy is 64. Take off that beard, and he'd look 50.  Mandy had what Oak, Scott, & Dave didn't have: the ability to sell tickets which might've been the means to keep it afloat until they secured someone else.

If none of the CE & BlackBway rants had occurred with the subsequent fallout, perhaps we'd be discussing what would've been Mandy's phenomenal performance at last night's show instead of lamenting GC's  Sunday demise.

 

 

[JayElle]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 1:27pm

Mullein said, "Lol yes and most of the time I still find it sketchy that it's perfectly acceptable for a dude in his 60s to date around in an age group almost 3 times his junior..."

Then get an older Natasha.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 1:37pm

JayElle said: "Hogan, I loved On the Town. Saw it 3 times, but I lived out of state then. Kagan was involved in that too. What happened that made it worse than GC?"

I saw it 3 times too. I wasn't referring to the production but to the management of demand. The theatre (whatever it was called then) was too big, the budget was too big (one of the reasons you loved it, right? ), they couldn't sell enough tickets and people knew they could get seats cheap. That is the formula for killing a show. And those factors were worse there then with Comet that at least sold some tickets at somewhat higher prices (but obviously not nearly enough).

 

[JayElle]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 1:53pm

Wow, Hogan. The Kagan's strike again.  The theater was on 42nd St..American Airline maybe?  

Well once Ham got $800+, they all want it now even tho GC couldn't do it. But GC isn't cheap either.

[haterobics]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 2:00pm

JayElle said: "While CE lamented the lack of POC,how about POA?

People of Age."

Too many stairs.

 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 2:19pm

If two people love each other why can't they be together? Isn't that the argument for gay marriage? Why can't people just accept love for what it is? I've never seen the show, but from what I can tell from the album natasha has at least a little bit of admiration for Pierre. I think if Mandy were to have been Pierre it would have been perfectly fine. 

[JayElle]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 2:21pm

Haterobics...presume it was a sarcastic comment b/c only a fool would believe it was too many stairs

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 2:24pm

I don't think an older Natasha would work because her actions in Great Comet are pretty immature. I've already seen people talking about how she comes across as really stupid and that they don't understand why she makes the choices that she does. I think that'd be even worse if she were played by an older actress.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 2:30pm

JayElle said: "Wow, Hogan. The Kagan's strike again. The theater was on 42nd St..American Airline maybe?
 

no, it was what is now the Lyric which I think was the Foxwoods at that time. 

[haterobics]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 2:32pm

JayElle said: "Haterobics...presume it was a sarcastic comment b/c only a fool would believe it was too many stairs"

Safe to presume most anything I post here is sarcastic, but if a cast of twentysomethings get PT twice a week just because of the stairs, it is certainly a factor.

[JayElle]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 2:36pm

Ahhh, SporkGoddess..you will find in life many an older adult who acts like a child.

Stockard Channing was in her thirties  when she played a teenage senior in the movie Grease.  Anything is possible.  Thinking that something "can't be done" is what keeps up the facade of stereotyping.  An older Natasha would do just fine.  It's not how you look, but how you perform. 

[JayElle]

Posted: 9/1/17 at 2:57pm

Amen Thead Master