Exorbitant ticket prices

[Seperite]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 12:44pm

I am bewildered as to why tickets to ALL Broadway shows are essentially priced at the same level...roughly $175 for orchestra seats to a musical, and only slightly less than that for plays. It just doesn't seem to make economic sense. Perhaps someone can explain it to me.

I mean, yes, if you're at the helm of a juggernaut/phenomenon like Mormon/Wicked/Lion King, or have a play headlined by a Bradley Cooper or Denzel Washington, you can probably charge $500 and still sell every seat in the house. But for the rest of the shows (and they are the majority) that don't have the same buzz or star-draw, it seems utterly nonsensical to charge these prices. And the weekly grosses bear that out.

Unless you are very rich, spending $175, per person, for two hours of entertainment, is an enormous amount of money. Throw in dinner, drinks, a babysitter, and transportation, and a couple is easily looking at shelling out $500 for a single evening, if not more -- an exorbitant sum to spend on a single evening for a middle-class couple. For the vast, vast majority of people, spending that kind of money is completely off the radar for anything but the most special and rare occasion. And even for those people for whom $500 is pocket change, that sum would still likely FEEL like too much to spend with any degree of frequency on an evening. (And don't forget, you're not even getting GREAT orchestra tickets for that price. Those are reserved for "premium" ticket buyers.)

The weekly grosses bear this out. Eliminate the Wicked/Lion King/Mormon juggernauts, and the plays with megawatt stars, and you find that most Broadway tickets go unsold. A significant number, if not an outright majority, close well in advance of their originally scheduled closing date in a desperate effort to stanch the bleeding. And of those shows that do survive, a simple analysis of their grosses reveals that a significant number of tickets they ARE selling are not going for full face-value.

So why the charade? Why overcharge, then desperately discount, then close with your tail between your legs and your pockets bereft of cash? If you're the producer of a Love Letters, Country House, Honeymoon in Vegas, This Is Our Youth, Side Show, On the Town, or a million others, why not buck the trend, figure out how much producers of less-acclaimed shows typically make per SEAT, and make the face value of your orchestra tickets reflect that? For example, taking last week's numbers: On the Town had about 15,000 tickets to sell, and brought in around $375,000. That means they brought in roughly $25 per seat in the house, even though they charge as much as $200 per ticket. 2/3 of their tickets went unsold. I would venture to guess that if they dropped their orchestra ticket price from $150 - $200 per ticket to, say, $40 or $50 per ticket, their tickets sales would increase so dramatically that it would offset any loss from lower prices.

The irony is that with TDF, and the TKTS booth, rush policies, and the various discount services, a good chunk of the tickets don't sell for face value anyway. The producers of most shows are perfectly willing to accept less than the exorbitant prices they ask at the box office and at Ticketmaster/Telecharge. But for some reason, they seem to believe that making people "work" for the discounts, and publicly pushing the exorbitant face-value tickets, makes sense. But it doesn't. All it does is keep the casual ticket-goer away.

Like most of the theater junkies on this site, I seldom pay full-face price for a ticket. As a frequent theater-goer, I am cognizant of the various discount options out there. (Though I believe in supporting the theater, I wouldn't be able to go with nearly the frequency that I do if I had to pay full price all the time.) Because I am an avid fan, I am willing to put in the "work" required to find the most affordable way to get a seat. But I, and fellow participants on sites like this, are in the minority. For the vast majority of people, theater is just one of a million different kinds of entertainments and escapes -- a pleasant one, to be sure, but not something worth obsessing over. Given the choice of going to a movie for $20, or a nice dinner for $50, or to drinks for $40, or a sporting event for $50, etc. very, very few non-hardcore fans are going to choose the theater for $175 -- again, not because they think they wouldn't like it, but because the price is out of whack with other forms of entertainment. If it were as "easy" and (financially) comparable to drop in and see a Broadway show as it is to have dinner at a decent restaurant, a lot more people would do it. If the producers are only pulling in $25 per seat anyway, why not make it easier for people to pay those prices?

The charade of inflated face-value prices really does keep people away. Almost none of my NYC friends are theater geeks; everyone likes it, but actually going is considered an "event" reserved for special occasions...because of the ostensible cost. Casual fans don't want to line up at TKTS or prove their eligibility for TDF...they just want to be able to go. If the producers enabled them to do so, shows would do better, and more of them would survive.

[Pootie2]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 12:53pm

Average capitalization costs have skyrocketed, among other variables.

Nothing will change until tourists stop paying and the millionaire producers/investors lose enough money over time that they back fewer and fewer productions and the live theater scene begins to die by attrition.

Yet you look at the numbers released last year, where more tourists (who comprise at least 70% of the Broadway market compared to the extreme minority on this board) spent more money on Broadway than ever before, and there were more shows on the Great White Way than before, and obviously things aren't going to change. The investors want a piece of that pie, and they will do crazy things for that. Laissez-faire at its best, I suppose.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 1:21pm

Broadway is a business, and the point is to make as much money as possible. If you look at the demographics, their aim is for upper-middle class people with tons of disposable income. New York has the best theater district in the world, and it's always going to be expensive.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 1:27pm

Casual fans don't want to line up at TKTS or prove their eligibility for TDF...they just want to be able to go. If the producers enabled them to do so, shows would do better, and more of them would survive.

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Updated On: 2/14/15 at 01:27 PM

[Jarethan]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 1:38pm

When I was a student 45 (ouch) years ago, you could see almost any show for $2 to $4 if you were willing to sit in the back of whatever. If it wasn't filled, you moved down, which was better.

What bothers me more than that is the fact that there are no cheap balcony seats anymore. I'f the prices were more scewed, I could tolerate the highest prices. It gives a lot of people little option. Even TKTS half price tickets can be almost $100.

When the cheapest tickets for Mormon areover $150, which is the case most nights, something is wrong. And there are other shows not that far behind, e.g., I think the cheapest to Beautiful are now $100.

To the people who say you can rush, you can't plan on rush tickets. If you are coming in from the suburbs
(the modest parts) hoping on a rush ticket, you are going to stay home. Your ability to then buy an inexpensive seat for something else is not there for many (most?) shows.

If anyone has noticed, Dr. Zhivago is selling its rear mezzanine for very reasonable prices, which I commend. I hope they keep them after the reviews are in (if they are good), and advertise the hell out of the good reviews and ability to buy a good number of reasonable seats.

So, it's in the Broadway. Even in smaller theaters, there is a way.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 1:58pm

Full price orchestra tickets for two big budget musicals that are supposed to succeed this year, Twentieth Century and The King and I are $147 and $142 respectively.

Someone who commented on the Twentieth Century preview thread said that she had seen the original 1978 production and the top ticket price was $20.

Using a calculator found on the 'Net, $20 in 1978 was worth $48 dollars in 2014.

Allowing for some room for inaccuracy in these figures, the price of the top ticket for a Broadway musical now has doubled or tripled in price in thirty-six years, taking inflation into account.

This huge increase has had to have caused some major changes in the composition of a Broadway season. After paying such a hefty price for tickets, the theatergoer does not want to be disappointed. It's not enough to walk out of the theater saying, "That was pretty good. I enjoyed a lot of it."

Perhaps this has driven the jukebox musical (already know and like all the music), the spectacle show (Phantom, Le Miz, Spiderman) and the star-driven show.

When Roundabout realized that it had a tiger by the tail in Emma Stone, as the end of her run came closer almost every orchestra table became a "Premium Seat" at $252 apiece, instead of just the six or so tables most front and center. On Friday and Saturday nights another $100 was added to the price, to $352.

I think I prefer the previous Broadway, when a good but modest musical like "On the Town" featuring two or three "hits" in the score could make a decent living and there was not so much pressure on the ticket purchaser to avoid making a bad choice.

[Cupid Boy2]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 2:04pm

While it is certainly unfortunate that some shows have taken to charging upwards of $100 for even their cheapest seats, I can't fault them for doing so. Broadway is a business, plain and simple. Shows like Beautiful and Mormon have the demand; it'd be foolish for the producers to not capitalize on that. Otherwise, scalpers or other third parties would be.

Both of those aforementioned shows offer standing room, which is a fairly certain way of obtaining cheap tickets if you're willing to put in the effort. As an individual with not a whole lot of disposable income, I saw 15 shows on Broadway last summer including hits like Hedwig with NPH for an average ticket price of $43.

It is definitely possible to see a lot of theatre on a tight budget if you're smart about it. While some may not be willing to make the effort to find those savings, like the OP, I too am willing to jump through the necessary hoops. We are not owed anything nor is any "casual theatergoer;" personally, I'm always happy to go out of my way for something I love.

Updated On: 2/14/15 at 02:04 PM

[Dollypop]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 2:13pm

I was in California recently and was really impressed with how much more reasonable ticket prices were out there.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 2:35pm

Hey wait a darn minute here. I thought I was the only one who complained about high ticket prices.

Until people stop going, the prices will continue to go up no matter how ridiculous they get. If we do not get a deal. we do not see the show.

[Skimbleshanks2]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 2:37pm

It's like rent... They can charge $3500 / mo for a one bedroom apartment because some idiot will inevitably play. They know that. It's the same with Broadway tickets. They can charge $300+ for 'Book of Mormon' premium seats because some rich tourists will pay.

I remember thinking how crazy it was when my second-row tickets to 'Aida' cost $99 each. Sigh...

[JMPlayer6]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 3:00pm

The price of a commodity that is in line with the economic principle of supply and demand is, by definition, not "exorbitant".

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 4:15pm

Your opinion. If you were charged $10 for a bagel, would you classify it as exorbitant?

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 4:34pm

Let's not forget Young Frankenstein...

[Hairspray0901]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 4:48pm

Something crazy to me about ticket prices is that most lottery and rush tickets used to be $25-$27.
Now, most range from $30-$40. I realize $40 for a Broadway show is still very reasonably priced but it just goes to show how in general, prices have "skyrocketed".

Then again, when the lottery & rush prices were that "little" money, the average ticket price for a non-premium seat was $125. Now, as others have mentioned, it's ranging more towards $140+.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 6:10pm

Here's a 1987 New York Times article on the appalling increase of top ticket price for musicals from $47.50 to $50.00 and for plays.

One independent producer, Arthur Cantor, said the ticket price increases portend hard times for his colleagues and him. "It's a catastrophe for independent producers," he said. "With the $37.50 ticket, we've already forfeited 15 to 20 percent of the audience. Now you can take away another 5 percent."


Times on 1987 increases in Broadway ticket prices.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 9:43pm

"I would venture to guess that if they dropped their orchestra ticket price from $150 - $200 per ticket to, say, $40 or $50 per ticket, their tickets sales would increase so dramatically that it would offset any loss from lower prices."

I'll hazard a guess that regardless of what they say, there's a fear that there simply isn't an audience for the show because of the quality or lack of appeal and so lowering the prices like that would just mean that the people who would go see the show anyway will still be the only ones seeing it, but they'll be paying less.

As for the lotteries, I personally don't get having tons seats to fill (obviously it depends on the show) in the house and not just selling discounted tickets for those seats. At that point you have an audience and seats to fill and nothing to gain from turning them away. A lot of the tourists aren't going to be back. The young people can't afford to cave in and just get a full price ticket. And the committed city dwellers will just come back another day.

"After paying such a hefty price for tickets, the theatergoer does not want to be disappointed. It's not enough to walk out of the theater saying, "That was pretty good. I enjoyed a lot of it."

I end up feeling that way about a lot of shows. I agree that you need a lower ticket price to take a chance on a show you don't think you'll be guaranteed to enjoy.

[morosco]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 10:02pm

What's the old saying? The producer doesn't set the ticket prices, the consumer does.

[EthelMae]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 10:21pm

I know it's a long time ago but I can't help it: A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC-1973- Winner of 6 Tony Awards including Best Musical: $2.00 Balcony seats available for ALL performances.

Saw it 12 times.

[LightsOut90]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 10:34pm

the bubble has to pop somewhere, or smarter producers will cannibalize the dumb ones, example was $25 tickets for Richard III and Twelfth Night, Sonia Friedman has made sure all her shows she lead produces have accessible tickets, that single handled helped them recoup, the irony is that if producers made there tickets more reasonable from the start more people would see it, word of mouth would spread and more shows would recoup.

[Pootie2]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 10:52pm

"The producer doesn't set the ticket prices, the consumer does."

Well, that's certainly part of the picture, but it's not a pure representation of Broadway economics. There's that other saying, "You can make a killing, but not a living in theater" (however it went), and producers look at Wicked or BOM or Lion King and not only want a piece of that pie, but many probably truly believe their shows will be the next juggernauts.

As success and failure are measured by recouping, the underlying question is why capitalization averages are so high for musicals these days, and if anything can be done about that. ( http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/21/the-staggering-cost-of-broadway/?_r=0 )

Also, I don't think I saw anything on this board about it, but apparently there's proposed legislation to give Broadway/theater productions tax breaks similar to how film and TV get tax breaks, in order to incentivize investing: http://www.clydefitchreport.com/2015/02/does-commercial-broadway-need-a-tax-break/

I'm not sure how I feel about that, and I didn't know film/TV get tax breaks too. Hmm.

[ebontoyan]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 11:09pm

While Broadway is Broadway I love that season tickets in Des Moines, Iowa's Civic Center can be had for $150 for 5 shows and the current year Tony winners will be touring in Iowa one year later. Plus there are no bad seats it's one big auditorium with no clear mezzanine/balcony. I've seen Kinky Boots, Once, Book of Mormon, Memphis, Billy Elliott, Wicked, The Lion King etc here. But I also make trips to NYC about 2x per year but never pay full price for shows :) I'm lucky that my workplace offers discounted Broadway tickets (among other tourist attractions) :)

[15minutecall]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 11:19pm

LightsOut: "$25 tickets for Richard III and Twelfth Night single handled helped them recoup"

Please explain in greater detail.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/14/15 at 11:54pm

I know it's a long time ago but I can't help it: A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC-1973- Winner of 6 Tony Awards including Best Musical: $2.00 Balcony seats available for ALL performances.

That was a practice that Hal Prince and his associate producer Ruth Mitchell prided themselves on in the 1970s. When I was in high school. I saw Company 4 times, Follies 5 times and Night Music 6 times--all from Hal and Ruthie's two-dollar seats.

By the time they got to Pacific Overtures, the economics of Broadway no longer allowed them to do so. That was when everything changed.

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 2/15/15 at 5:59am

I miss the 90s when shows had winter sales. You could get a Sunset, Phantom or Les Mis tix for $15-$20.

I did get Cabaret w Williams and 20th Centrry for $10 w Access10. I was able to get a $90something seat for Emma as Sally but wasn't able to make it due to being sick and the roundabout said they'd honor my tix as long as the show had tix available that day but most days they only had $300+ seats. Crazy I'm saving it till sienna who I think will be great.

Even long running shows. Seats that used to be $40 are around $90 for rear mezz. *coiugh Chicago *

It's getting to be not worth it anymore.

[SweetLips]

Posted: 2/15/15 at 6:18am

I used to go to almost everything---now, maybe one show a year.
I live my theatre going through BWW and reading other peoples' experiences--I spend my pleasure money on travel instead.