Sondheim is like dining at a fine restaurant.You may not like or understand some things on the menu. On the whole, you are glad you came as you enjoyed your meal. Other composers are like the Olive Garden.Some are somewhere in between.
With Sondheim, you have to carefully study the menu and think about wine. With others, burgers and fries and a coke.
The problem with the dining analogy is that some people don't like fish, no matter how much I do, so telling them that Le Bernardin is the best restaurant in New York doesn't alter the fact that they are not going to enjoy it.
Or maybe the analogy works after all, and the problem is with your use of it...
Seriously speaking, for a minute, as someone who was raised on R&H, L&L, and shows from the so-called "Golden Age", I was never a fan of Sondheim until relatively recently, when I had reason to study "A Little Night Music." This prompted me to study Sondheim in a bit more depth, and it also began to force me to listen to lyrics more than I had previously. As he says in "Finishing the Hat", there are people who listen to music differently. Some just let it wash over them (gloriously at times), and some are more apt to listen to lyric details. I had been one of the former, but I've tried to become more of the latter.
Sondheim is for many people an acquired taste, appreciation of his genius takes time to develop. Hey, when I was much younger, I couldn't stand the taste of scotch, now single malt is my drink of choice.
CZJ at opening night party for A Little Night Music, Dec 13, 2009.
I like how he uses examples from the follies section of Follies, and then claims Sondheim's lyrics are pretentious and obscure, as if follies-era musical numbers weren't.
If you ask Joe Average to imitate what he thinks is "musical" on the spot, it looks like something straight out of a Sondheim show. I wouldn't compare that to fine dining. When I go to a star restaurant, I experience an appreciation for the fine quality, that appreciation can be translated to shows like Miss Saigon, where every lyric and tone and intention goes somewhere. It's true that most people think they don't like musicals, but I feel that they would if there were more sung-through shows like Miss Saigon, which are very straight forward in style and emotion and without the fuss, unnecessary lyrics,too many repetitions and strange rhymes and farfetched melodies.
Dave19 once argued that Glee is too layered and complex for most people to fully appreciate.
Also, considering Joe Average has most likely not seen a Sondheim musical, I doubt something like that is what would spring to mind when asked about musical theatre.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Exactly. Glee has actually saved lives, according to the tons of mail the executive producers received. Because of the subjects and the way they handled them in the show. I wouldn't negate that if I were you. And that is a whole different story that goes far beyond just "appreciation" of a style, which is what we are discussing here.
"Also, considering Joe Average has most likely not seen a Sondheim musical, I doubt something like that is what would spring to mind when asked about musical theatre."
And yet, both things look and sound exactly alike.
Yeah, Sondheim isn't even on the radar of most people who hate musicals.
Ask someone who hates musicals, and they're MUCH more likely to bring up a traumatic childhood viewing of "The Sound of Music" or "My Fair Lady" or "West Side Story" than "Pacific Overtures" or "Sweeney Todd." They associate musicals with "corny" stories of singing nuns and dancing gangsters, not murderous barbers. And the fact is, no matter the subject matter, some people simply can't handle characters bursting out into song - it's just not realistic, you know (as opposed, of course, to the utter realism of your average action film or romance that many of those same individuals will be quick to declare "totally awesome.")
Also, while everyone is entitled to their opinion, I'm kind of baffled by someone who complains about repetitiveness and declares "most" of Sondheim's lyrics "unnecessary" while holding up "Miss Saigon" (a show I quite like) as an example of purposeful songwriting. Without denigrating Boublil and Maltby, I'll just say that I can think of few other lyricists who are able to pack so much meaning and purpose into each line as Sondheim.
Being Alive is probably the closest thing he has to being a "world class song," but honestly, none of his songs are even close to being as famous as songs like "Memory" or "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" or songs from Dreamgirls and Hair.
His lyrics however are in West Side Story which everyone knows. Also, he wrote the lyrics to Gypsy which has the song "Together Wherever We Go" which is pretty popular also
I think Send in the Clowns is as famous as ...Argentina, Memory, and other songs you named. It's been covered by artists ranging from Cher to Placido Domingo to Peter Criss to Krusty the Klown. It was in the Billboard Hot 100 on 2 separate occasions. It won the Grammy for song of the year.
I think "Send in the Clowns" is probably Sondheim's most well-known song. Many people think of it as a stand alone and don't know what show or in what context that song is sung.
You may be right. Most Sondheim melodies are actually extremely simple, but they very often seem to avoid the heart of what the lyrics are trying to say. That's actually where Sondheim always loses me. Too simple, distracting, uninteresting melodies combined with farfetched lyrics.
I think Sondheim generally has simple melodies so that the words really shine. I think he's said something before about having minimal music so that the music and lyrics are equal. I personally enjoy his lyrics more than his music.
And yea, you're right, many people have covered Send in the Clowns, and many many many more people have covered Memory
""Also, considering Joe Average has most likely not seen a Sondheim musical, I doubt something like that is what would spring to mind when asked about musical theatre."
And yet, both things look and sound exactly alike."
So you've done a survey?
Did you do in the same place you once claimed BD Wong was more recognizable than Hugh Jackman?
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
This is partially off-topic, but I've never understood the fuss over Don't Cry For Me Argentina. It's not even the best song from Evita (which I otherwise adore). Of course, I'm also not a big fan of Send in the Clowns.
If you think that Sondheim has simple melodies, you have clearly never attempted to sing one. Any singer can tell you that they are difficult songs to sing. Not necessarily because of range but due to the complicated intervals and rhythm.