The best structured musicals

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 9:37am

I know we all have our thoughts on which musicals are the overall "best," but I'd like to know what people think are the best in terms of structure - shows that are so ironclad in their composition that they almost always work, and if you revived them today, you'd hardly need to change a word  - just do the show, and it'll take care of itself.

 

The three that immediately come to mind are Gypsy, Sweeney Todd, and Little Shop of Horrors.

Others that are contenders in my estimation:

The Music Man

Guys and Dolls

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

A Little Night Music

La Cage aux Folles

Hairspray

The Drowsy Chaperone

The Light in the Piazza

 

Thoughts? 

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 9:59am

Two perhaps controversial opinions,

I do love Gypsy but I don't think it's structurally as great of a book musical as people say it is. It feels very episodic to me and the book scenes feel like play scenes, not well paced musical theatre scenes.

Also, Light in the Piazza would work better as a one act. I don't think the second act has enough propelling us to the end climactically. It's a chamber piece and I would love to see it paired down a bit to be like the novella it is.

[KevinKlawitter]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 11:22am

Into the Woods, full stop. That show is tight as a drum.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 11:27am

Rentaholic2 said: "shows that are so ironclad in their composition that they almost always work, and if you revived them today, you'd hardly need to change a word - just do the show, and it'll take care of itself."

The Most Happy Fella fits this bill to a tee, in my opinion. It's a period piece with a few songs that were probably a little retro in 1956, but it still seems very modern to me in the way that it addresses themes of loneliness, betrayal, and mutual forgiveness. The plot does center around an older man who persuades a young woman to marry him through deception, but I don't think even that would be a problem for contemporary audiences, because the entire show is about the consequences of that deception.

[imeldasturn]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 11:28am

She Loves Me

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 11:34am

imeldasturn said: "She Loves Me"

There's a LOT of padding. 

[broadwaybabywannabe2]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 11:37am

Rentaholic2 said: "I know we all have our thoughts on which musicals are the overall "best," but I'd like to know what people think are the best in terms of structure - shows that are so ironclad in their composition that they almost always work, and if you revived them today, you'd hardly need to change a word - just do the show, and it'll take care of itself.



The three that immediately come to mind are Gypsy, Sweeney Todd, and Little Shop of Horrors.

Others that are contenders in my estimation:

The Music Man

Guys and Dolls

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

A Little Night Music

La Cage aux Folles

Hairspray

The Drowsy Chaperone

The Light in the Piazza



Thoughts?"

IMHO A Little Night Music is the most perfect blend of book and score that i have ever seen...

[berniesb!tch]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 11:57am

Even though it's been tinkered with a few times, I find Cabaret to be pretty perfect no matter when I see it. 

Also, A Chorus Line is sheer perfection to me

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 11:58am

Night Music has astonishingly good bones. It can be a little flat when the actors aren't up to the task of communicating the jokes, because so much of the comedy is subtextual, but even a middling production is great. I had more fun at a clumsy amateur production of it that was staged in a community centre dance studio than I've had at some legitimate Broadway shows because the book and score bring out the best in the actors.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 12:06pm

Any time I see CHICAGO I’m always pleasantly surprised at what a tight piece of writing it is.

In terms of functionality, THE PRODUCERS is a classic setup/payoff structure with a clear throughline & stakes. 

[The Bittersweets]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 12:11pm

I’d throw in Putnam and Bridges of Madison County. Though Bridges might be hard to do at the community level from a vocal standpoint, (when Kate Baldwin isn’t around to spoil us, that is) it’s a show that consistently has blown me away. And Putnam is perfect at the community level, the audience interaction still feels novel and the characters are so lovable/odd that it’s easy to forgive a production if the voices aren't all there.

[morosco]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 12:33pm

I'd add Fiddler on the Roof to the list.

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 12:40pm

I so agree that Night Music has to be cast with people who are hysterically funny.

Every character has to be funny AND sound gorgeous. 

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 12:42pm

The Bittersweets said: "I’d throw in Putnam and Bridges of Madison County. Though Bridges might be hard to do at the community level from a vocal standpoint, (when Kate Baldwin isn’t around to spoil us, that is) it’s a show that consistently has blown me away. And Putnam is perfect at the community level, the audience interaction still feels novel and the characters are so lovable/odd that it’s easy to forgive a production if the voices aren't all there."

Putnam yes.

Bridges no.

 

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 12:55pm

I just saw the current London production of LA CAGE, and it struck me this time how perfectly constructed it is. Harvey’s book is pretty perfect.

[KevinKlawitter]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 12:56pm

This may be a lesser-known example, but I saw a production of The Spitfire Grill at the University of Minnesota-Duluth last night and was really impressed by how quickly it moved.  There was barely any fat on the production at all, and it only slowed down at the moments when the tone shifted during the second act.

[Mskuphantm]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 1:04pm

La Cage Aux Folles

Mame

Hello Dolly... 

But they are need the proper performers to deliver the patter, taking beats to deliver the lines. 

Bette truly delivered the show the way her speaking cadence in the scenes happened, and the direction also moved from one scene to the next

I'll throw in Xanadu for fun, I mean it's what around 90 minutes, one act, pokes fun at its source material, and all the ELO songs are perfectly lined up.

A Little Night Music

Grey Gardens

 

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 1:14pm

For how old the show is, I am so impressed with how tight and well structured Guys and Dolls is. I think that show and Fiddler are the two golden age musicals that hold up best overall for modern audiences even if other ones have better individual elements.

As far as newer shows, I agree with The Drowsy Chaperone and I would also add Come From Away.

I also want to give a shout-out to how tight and well structured Seussical JR is compared to the full length show.

[FosseTharp]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 3:20pm

This thread immediately reminded me of the NY Mag article from 2011 with Jesse Green, Nora Ephron, Frank Rich, George C Wolfe and Jonathan Tunick where they discussed and came up with the definitive best musical ever written (On Paper).  
 

 I just found the link but as it’s been over a decade since I read the article I could be wrong but I believe the consensus became GUYS AND DOLLS as the best written on paper. I believe FIDDLER was #2, IIRC. 
 

The Greatest Musical: “I Can’t Live With ‘West Side Story’ Not Being Among the Finalists”

[FosseTharp]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 3:29pm

FosseTharp said: "This thread immediately reminded me of the NY Mag article from 2011 with Jesse Green, Nora Ephron, Frank Rich, George C Wolfe and Jonathan Tunick where they discussed and came up with the definitive best musical ever written (On Paper).


I just found the link but as it’s been over a decade since I read the article I could be wrong but I believe the consensus became GUYS AND DOLLS as the best written on paper. I believe FIDDLER was #2, IIRC.


The Greatest Musical: “I Can’t Live With ‘West Side Story’ Not Being Among the Finalists”"

 

Nevermind, Fiddler was one of the 13 eliminated off the bat… which is shocking to me but now I remember that being the case when reading it initially which I thought was shocking. 

 

[mlledir]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 3:59pm

One of the things that astounds me about the structure of Guys & Dolls is the genius of the following: because of the bet between Sky & Nathan, every single action by any of the 4 main characters (and every scene) moves the action forward for everyone, even those not involved in the particular scene.  This seems like such a subtle but huge development from the "A couple/B couple" structure of so many musicals at the time.

[Fan123]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 4:38pm

Rentaholic2 said: "I'd like to know what people think are the best in terms of structure - shows that are so ironclad in their composition that they almost always work, and if you revived them today, you'd hardly need to change a word - just do the show, and it'll take care of itself."

I know this isn't really what you meant by not needing to change a word, but just a general comment that revisiting some older shows and stories through a modern lens has made me appreciate their structure more. This is because - unfortunately - it would be challenging to remove the outdated or problematic elements without disrupting that tight structure. For example, introducing that female character by having the male lead rescue her, might come across as cliched and sexist today; but without that moment, the story loses that important first inkling that this irritating man has a compassionate side, and the economy of introducing the female lead in the same moment. Or, the portrayal of those characters is racist, but if they didn't come across as sufficiently "dangerous" in a particular scene, there would be no stakes to the scene. When thinking about ideas for changing these stories' structure, I realise how ironclad the existing structure really is. (But don't get me wrong; I still think that conversations about considering revisions to older shows and stories should be had.)

Anyway, some shows that I find well-structured:

A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO THE FORUM

1776

HAMILTON

Updated On: 10/12/23 at 04:38 PM

[bwayobsessed]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 7:46pm

My first thought was Sweeney. And I think it’s the answer.

 

Little Shop and into the woods are both good contenders tho

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 8:57pm

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "I so agree that Night Music has to be cast with people who are hysterically funny.

Every character has to be funny AND sound gorgeous."

I actually disagree somewhat with your second sentence: funny and act well, yes. But it's a rare show where the 2 principal female roles (Desiree and Madame A) can have extremely limited vocal ranges. Mme A could talk the entire thing. Frederick and Charlotte are not tough sings either, and Petra could be a passable singer if she can deliver a dynamite acting performance.

MY FAIR LADY is similar in that Higgins, Pickering, Mrs. H, and Dolittle could all be cast with non-singers and it would work perfectly well.

MFL is another perfectly-structured musical, but that's thanks to Shaw (and to an extent Lerner knowing when to borrow from Shaw and when to get out of the way).

[sinister teashop]

Posted: 10/12/23 at 9:02pm

It feels like the idea of the iron clad musical is being challenged and the new territory is reviving musicals (and plays) that were seen as flawed or even flops. The old feather-in-the-cap of the rising director were radical interpretations of classics, now it feels like the platform to show one's brilliance as a director or as a performer is to bring new life to properties that have been overlooked or even rejected.

I personally think this trend is fabulous and exciting.

Updated On: 10/12/23 at 09:02 PM