Anthony Rapp: Kevin Spacey Made A Sexual Advance Toward Me When I Was 14- Page 6

[Lot666]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 10:21am

Soaring29 said: "Personally, I believe Rapp's story here, but I'd caution those who say we should automatically believe the victim- nobody knows if the person is a victim or not until being able to weigh all the facts. That's why we have juries/judges. Although I understand it is necessary in order to avoid kangaroo courts, I don't necessarily believe in the "innocent until proven guilty" principle, nor do I believe in "guilty until proven innocent" - it should be a matter of fact for a person to be able make up their own mind after hearing the evidence,to not have any pre-conceived notion at all,and not let their emotions and biases overwhelm them. Assuming anything is contrary to the interests of justice. There are indeed false reports of sex crimes out there and falsely accused people whose lives are drastically affected by them- no one should assume anything until they are able to weigh both sides. Do not automatically assume anything until you know all the facts. And this goes for automatically believing the accused as well. As hard as it is, one has to put aside their personal feelings and be objective."

^ This. 

The lynch-mob mentality

[uncageg]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 10:24am

Soaring29 said: "Personally, I believe Rapp's story here, but I'd caution those who say we should automatically believe the victim- nobody knows if the person is a victim or not until being able to weigh all the facts. That's why we have juries/judges. Although I understand it is necessary in order to avoid kangaroo courts, I don't necessarily believe in the "innocent until proven guilty" principle, nor do I believe in "guilty until proven innocent" - it should be a matter of fact for a person to be able make up their own mind after hearing the evidence,to not have any pre-conceived notion at all,and not let their emotions and biases overwhelm them. Assuming anything is contrary to the interests of justice. There are indeed false reports of sex crimes out there and falsely accused people whose lives are drastically affected by them- no one should assume anything until they are able to weigh both sides. Do not automatically assume anything until you know all the facts. And this goes for automatically believing the accused as well. As hard as it is, one has to put aside their personal feelings and be objective."

Well put.

[mariel9]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 10:38am

Since false accusations are incredibly rare, and disbelieving victims has enabled people like Weinstein and Spacey (and the regular non-famous abusers everywhere), I'm gonna keep believing victims. I will do so based on the evidence that false accusations are rare, that men get away with abusive behavior every day, and that victims are chronically disbelieved, second-guessed, and blamed. So please don't mischaracterize that as an emotional, biased response. (Ladies, so emotional, amiright?)

[LYLS3637]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 10:50am

mariel9 said: "Since false accusations are incredibly rare, and disbelieving victims has enabled people like Weinstein and Spacey (and the regular non-famous abusers everywhere), I'm gonna keep believing victims. I will do so based on the evidence that false accusations are rare, that men get away with abusive behavior every day, and that victims are chronically disbelieved, second-guessed, and blamed. So please don't mischaracterize that as an emotional, biased response. (Ladies, so emotional, amiright?)"

^Yes!!

Believing a victim is the appropriate evidence-based response.

[vanbrig]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 10:51am

Steve C. said: "One thing I can say is Karma will always come around and come back, and give back to you what you give. Working on HOC, KS treated everyone "badly", his attitude was not professional, there was always some "activity" in his trailer, always on the DL. Unfortunately, his "choices" have just put a lot of people out of work.

Stop blaming and shaming the victim here; if Rapp was 18 or older, he would still be a victim, but being 14, this was/is a crime. Spacey's reply and supposed apology reek of privilege and denial."

It sounds like they didn't cancel the show because of this. The New York Times article stated that they had already decided months ago to end it after season 6 (makes sense, because it's not as popular as it used to be and the story is winding down), and chose this moment to announce it. Personally I'm relieved, because the rest of the cast and crew shouldn't have to pay for Spacey's behavior.

That being said, Spacey might just find himself unable to get another job, and rightfully so.

[Cat Guy]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 11:24am

While this 14-year-old boy was on the streets of NYC attending "late night gatherings," going to a night club, and sitting on the bed of an adult male after midnight......where was the mother?

[A Canadian in NYC]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 11:33am

Margo319 said: "
"He pinned a 14 year old boy down on a bed hoping to get sex out of him"

You don't know that. No one does. Sorry. And, again,that IS NOT RAPE. LOOK IT UP IN THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURAL LAW BOOK."

I did not say it was rape. So I really don't need to look anything up.   

What do you think happened?  He laid the boy down on the bed - situated himself on top of him in hope of some cuddles??  a hug??    Get serious.  He had one thing in mind and was looking for a sign of compliance - which he did not get.  Being drunk is not an excuse.  Ever.    He was 14 for goodness sakes.  Put yourself in that position for just one minute.  It's beyond frightening.  Rapp has been very courageous to come forward with this and we'll just wait to see if more surface.

[Kad]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 11:40am

...am I the only one who doesn't find it odd that a teenager- particularly one who has been working professionally in the business for several years at that point- would be unaccompanied at a gathering of other professionals? Especially thirty years ago?

I mean,  I was unaccompanied by a parent at theatre production parties when I was that old because my parents knew who would be there and trusted them.

Perhaps that was the case here.  

...and why are fingers pointed solely at Rapp's mother, for ****'s sake?

Updated On: 10/31/17 at 11:40 AM

[haterobics]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 11:46am

Kad said: "...and why are fingers pointed solely at Rapp's mother, for ****'s sake?"

Especially given the fact that it was addressed by Rapp in the article:

"...he stressed that the idea of him attending a party held by an adult Broadway actor did not seem like a cause for concern. "I imagine that I might be opening my poor late mother up to some criticisms for how she parented, but, you know, it was a different era," he said. "I went to work by myself. I would walk to the subway, and go to the theater by myself.”

When he arrived at Spacey's apartment, Rapp quickly realized that he was the only nonadult there — which, again, did not worry him, since he so often had found himself in similar situations as a child actor. The bigger issue: "I didn't know anyone," he said. "And I was quickly kind of bored.""

[uncageg]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 11:52am

Kad, that thought ran through my mind from the beginning.

Vanbrig, it has been annoying me that some media outlets are wording it to sound like this is the reason the show is ending. In this time wjen they are being accused of not reporting the truth they still can't stop twisting the truth. Seth Meyers did it last night and I jist turned it off.

[Kad]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 11:54am

I have a feeling the minds of some posters here would be blown if they saw how some young kids are in NYC wandering around without a chaperone. Rapp was 14, not a toddler. Old enough to be entrusted to be by himself.

Updated On: 10/31/17 at 11:54 AM

[vanbrig]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 11:56am

Yeah, no need to be blaming his mother for this. A lot of parents thirty years ago wouldn't bat an eye at a kid, who's obviously responsible enough to be working on Broadway, going to a gathering of people they work with and some of their friends. Especially if--as haterobics reminded us--that kid didn't know they would be the only minor there and couldn't convey that information to the mom beforehand. Nowadays a parent would probably be a little more wary, but as Rapp himself says, attitudes really were different back then. The only person to blame here is Spacey. 

And yes uncageg, I do wish they'd report on the show ending with all of the facts. Honestly, if this was the sole reason they were ending the show, they wouldn't have made the decision in less than 24 hours. They probably would have held several meetings and waited a few days to see how it played out (i.e., if it blew over, if more people came forward with stories, etc.) before taking action. Now that I think about it, I actually remember hearing rumors of the next season being the last back in July. 

Updated On: 10/31/17 at 11:56 AM

[theatregoer3]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 12:10pm

This post will probably get deleted, but here goes:

People have been talking about Spacey's inappropriate behavior for decades. Like are you folks blind?!

I'm shocked no one else is talking now that the cat is officially out of the bag. Rapp is the only person I know of to come forward in any public way, but everyone has known about this. Everyone. How do those of you who are in NY theater NOT know about this?! I personally know two of Spacey's co-stars on past projects who have dealt with his predatory advances and it really affected them mentally and emotionally. This is a well-known secret that gets discussed at many post-show drinks and dinner parties and I wish more people would come forward and not hide. I think they just don't want to get involved and be branded as victims in a way that would harm their career.

For those of you who question the validity of Rapp's claims, I can understand why you would question it, but again, dozens and dozens of people have these stories. The ones I know of were all men in the 20's. The only aspect of this that's news to me is the fact that he did something like this to a minor.

Sorry to the folks who will probably have to delete this due to some policy issue.

[Kad]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 12:15pm

I'd heard about Spacey making advances on hotel staff, etc. - the sort of lower-status people who may be afraid of losing their job if they speak out.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 12:18pm

theatregoer3 said:  "I'm shocked no one else is talking now that the cat is officially out of the bag."

Apparently others are talking.  Or at least some might be about to:

 https://www.google.com/search?q=others+accuse+spacey&enablesearch=true

Updated On: 10/31/17 at 12:18 PM

[GoblinKing2]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 2:08pm

Rapp’s parents divorced when he was 2, so his mother was a single mom raising three kids.  Since he happened to be gainfully employed he may have been on his own more. Being a flawed parent myself, I’ll let others pass judgment

[thirtythirtyninety]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 2:33pm

and now production is suspended on House of Cards

 

http://www.vulture.com/2017/10/netflix-suspends-house-of-cards-production.html?utm_campaign=vulture&utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s1

 

 

[SweetLips]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 3:24pm

In this case there was reported clothed physical contact---a big No No ! 

Were the mentioned 'predatory advances', 'making advances to hotel staff' , maybe waiters/actors etc verbal  come-ons or actual forced, touching, sexual contact?

Is Spacey just a sleeze or a Weinstein?

[Fosse76]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 3:40pm

SweetLips said: "Is Spacey just a sleeze or a Weinstein?"

I once knew someone who'd been at the receiving end of Spacey's advances, and based on his experiences, I would say Spacey is more "sleaze" as opposed to another Weinstein. But he didn't work in the entertainment industry, and had nothing to lose by resisting those advances. Spacey was pretty much a joke to him.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 3:40pm

SweetLips said: "Is Spacey just a sleeze or a Weinstein?"

I once knew someone who'd been at the receiving end of Spacey's advances, and based on his experiences, I would say Spacey is more "sleaze" as opposed to another Weinstein. But he didn't work in the entertainment industry, and had nothing to lose by resisting those advances. Spacey was pretty much a joke to him.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 3:51pm

Kad said: "...am I the only one who doesn't find it odd that a teenager- particularly one who has been working professionally in the business for several years at that point- would be unaccompanied at a gathering of other professionals? Especially thirty years ago?"

No, you're not. 1986 parenting is not 2017 parenting, and a professional teenage child actor is not the same as Suzy Sophomore Smalltown, who has to come straight home after soccer practice and call her mom at work from the landline. The kids in Annie went to Studio 54, for god's sake. Kids today are claiming Stranger Things is unrealistic because the parents have no idea where their kids were all day. Times have changed. Nothing about this party scenario was outlandish for mid-80s, except that the participants are famous.

 

Soaring29 said: "Personally, I believe Rapp's story here, but I'd caution those who say we should automatically believe the victim- nobody knows if the person is a victim or not until being able to weigh all the facts. That's why we have juries/judges. Although I understand it is necessary in order to avoid kangaroo courts, I don't necessarily believe in the "innocent until proven guilty" principle, nor do I believe in "guilty until proven innocent" - it should be a matter of fact for a person to be able make up their own mind after hearing the evidence,to not have any pre-conceived notion at all,and not let their emotions and biases overwhelm them. Assuming anything is contrary to the interests of justice. There are indeed false reports of sex crimes out there and falsely accused people whose lives are drastically affected by them- no one should assume anything until they are able to weigh both sides. Do not automatically assume anything until you know all the facts. And this goes for automatically believing the accused as well. As hard as it is, one has to put aside their personal feelings and be objective."

Soaring29, just because you personally weren't aware doesn't mean everyone else are automatically assuming without the facts.

You think Netflix would have suspended production on a show if they thought it was only one person's 30 year old claims? They know it's not. Steve C. knows it's not. The Old Vic knows it's not. A few weeks ago, a journalist in Boston said on Twitter that Kevin Spacey assaulted a loved one of hers and it flew under the radar.

One person making an accusation with no proof is one thing. One person making an accusation and dozens of people saying "I know someone too!" is another.

Updated On: 10/31/17 at 03:51 PM

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 3:55pm

Cat Guy said: "While this 14-year-old boy was on the streets of NYC attending "late night gatherings," going to a night club, and sitting on the bed of an adult male after midnight......where was the mother?"

This is probably the worst take in this thread. Its not about the mother.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 4:04pm

I work with sexual assault survivors and just want to say that Rapp's version of events meets criteria for a traumatic event as we would define it when diagnosing PTSD. It doesn't matter if he got away--the threat was there. I've worked with people who have similar stories where they got away, and often the horror comes from 1. the fact that someone would try to do that in the first place and 2. the "what ifs" that you play over and over again in your mind. And then there's the fact that they often tell themselves, oh, it wasn't a big deal, I should really just get over this. Saying "well it wasn't rape" isn't helpful for that reason. And I'd argue it was attempted rape. As was pointed out elsewhere in the thread, Rapp had to run away. Spacey didn't let him go. There's also the coercion/power differential aspect and the fact that Rapp couldn't legally consent, anyway.

Updated On: 10/31/17 at 04:04 PM

[Marianne2]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 4:35pm

Kad said: "...am I the only one who doesn't find it odd that a teenager- particularly one who has been working professionally in the business for several years at that point-would be unaccompanied at a gathering of other professionals? Especially thirty years ago?

I mean, I was unaccompanied by aparentat theatre production parties when I was that old because my parents knew who would be there and trusted them.

Perhaps that was the case here.

...and whyare fingers pointed solely at Rapp's mother, for ****'s sake?"

I agree with this. I remember at BroadwayCon during the Annie panel from Shelley Bruce and Andrea McArdle that they and the other kids got into Studio 54 a few times when it was a club. Things are definitely different today.

[vanbrig]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 4:43pm

thirtythirtyninety said: "and now production is suspended on House of Cards



http://www.vulture.com/2017/10/netflix-suspends-house-of-cards-production.html?utm_campaign=vulture&utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s1



"

I wonder if they found out about other incidents when they met with the cast and crew yesterday. Well I hope they do end up continuing production and releasing it, either cutting his character out or monitoring him during production or whatever. Like I said before, I think the rest of the cast and crew deserve to be able to finish their work, and the viewers and creators should be able to see the story come to a real conclusion. He's the one who should have to face consequences, not them.