#TonysSoWhite ?- Page 5

[Lot666]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 8:37am

HeyMrMusic said: "I know Devin Ilaw has played it regionally. Wonder if he'd be considered after Brantley's positive review and overall standout performance in Miss Saigon. I hope he's on the rise; he's very talented."

Are you suggesting Devin Ilaw for M Butterfly? He's fantastic; I would love to see that!

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 11:38am

Yes. I believe he also sang the arias live. 

[Jeffrey Karasarides]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 12:21pm

I don't think anyone should cast people of color just for the sake of doing it. I think if you're doing a contemporary piece, there should always be room for people of color.

However, if you're doing a period piece that traditionally has an all-white cast, I think casting directors should start from there and if they can't find any white performers that would be good enough for certain role(s), feel free to do some colorblind casting.

[cam5y]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 12:29pm

I think the best person for the role ought to be chosen for all roles, barring any legal concerns such as authors getting involved. Shakespeare is "period" and Shakespeare has close to colour-blind casting here in the UK, and the results are much the better for it. They should do colour-blind casting for all roles, whether or not white performers are "good enough."

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 12:39pm

Hork: Earlier in this thread, I already posted the various reasons why I thought Llana was more deserving of being cast as the King (aside from being Tony eligible). I didn't feel I needed to repeat that.

Updated On: 6/15/17 at 12:39 PM

[A Director]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 1:40pm

Jeffrey Karasarides said: "I don't think anyone should cast people of color just for the sake of doing it. I think if you're doing a contemporary piece, there should always be room for people of color.

However, if you're doing a period piece that traditionally has an all-white cast, I think casting directors should start from there and if they can't find any white performers that would be good enough for certain role(s), feel free to do some colorblind casting.

How white of you!  Why should non-white actors have to settle for seconds?  The term colorblind casting is an offensive term  because you don't see the person!

 

 

[Rainah]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 1:41pm

cam5y said: "I think the best person for the role ought to be chosen for all roles, barring any legal concerns such as authors getting involved. Shakespeare is "period" and Shakespeare has close to colour-blind casting here in the UK, and the results are much the better for it. They should do colour-blind casting for all roles, whether or not white performers are "good enough."

This. Colour-blind or colour-conscious casting has not hurt Hamilton, Les Mis, Cursed Child, Shakespeare, Great Comet, or any number of fantastical or period pieces. Reimagine it. 

If your entire principle cast is white*, there is something wrong with the show. Full stop. DEH should not be only white people. Wicked should not. Dolly should not. This is a failure of American theatre, one that people need to stop tolerating. We have so many strange and inventive practical effects in theatre... you want to look at the revolving barricade in Les Mis and tell me the most unrealistic aspect is a black man playing Javier? 

*Making a small exception for shows that are about race, such as Ragtime, Hairspray, Doubt, ect. Most shows are not about race. 

[coreman009]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 1:43pm

Jeffrey Karasarides said: "I don't think anyone should cast people of color just for the sake of doing it. I think if you're doing a contemporary piece, there should always be room for people of color.

However, if you're doing a period piece that traditionally has an all-white cast, I think casting directors should start from there and if they can't find any white performers that would be good enough for certain role(s), feel free to do some colorblind casting.

 

I agree with this. Bandstand has gotten a lot of crap for only having one black person in the cast, and while I agree having another couple people of color in the ensemble would be ideal, I don't find it necessary to have a person of color in the main cast. You COULD, but you don't HAVE to. This is the cast they started with off-Broadway and they're all excellent singers, actors, and dancers. Of course that's not to say there aren't triple threats who are black and Hispanic, but you don't have to cast one for the sake of diversity. It takes place in the 1940's, it's not unrealistic. You COULD make the choice to revise history, but you don't have to to be acceptable. 

 

[A Director]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 1:52pm

These discussions always lead to nonsense.  The focus should be not on who did or did not win a Tony. The focus should be on diversity.

At the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, diversity and inclusion are front and center!  Here's a link to the 2017 season.  Click on any play and see how this works in practice.  This season is not unique.

https://www.osfashland.org/experience-osf/current-season/all-events

 

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 1:59pm

I don't think that there is a huge problem with diversity in modern musical theatre.  There is always room for improvement, but we are starting to see more inclusive shows.  The difference between now and the old days, is that now POC can actually get an audition for shows like Phantom and Les Mis and not get laughed out of the audition room even if they are the best choice for the role.  Directors are more open to color-blind casting.  The color of someone's skin doesn't matter if the character is white by default.  Talent should be all that matters.

That being said we are also getting shows like Hamilton and The Great Comet where there is intentional inclusion.  Color conscious casting is also wonderful to see because it allows us in shows like Hamilton to see a realistic representation of what are nation wants and needs to be.

I would also like to remind people that with shows like Hello, Dolly! and Dear Evan Hansen, we have only seen the original cast.  We may get all shades of color flowing through those shows.  Evan doesn't need to be white and neither does Dolly.  I wouldn't be surprised to see POC playing those roles very soon.  Of course there is always room for diversity, but we are definitely on the right path.  If we're talking about film, however........ I'm still not convinced that the problem has been solved there.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 2:31pm

''The focus should be not on who did or did not win a Tony.''

Actors become actors because they love to act. It's about getting cast. Prizes are a bonus. But here's why the discussion about the Tonys are pertinent. It's the No. 1 award in theater, and you can't win an award if you're not eligible. And you're not eligible unless you've got an award-caliber role. For instance, no Asian-American guy has ever won a Tony Award as a leading man. Only 3 have been nominated. I would suggest that it's a reflection of how rarely Asian-American men are given the OPPORTUNITY to prove themselves, NOT because they lack the skills. The roles have not been there.

Like it or not, the Tony is a yardstick of whose stories get told, and whose don't, and which performers get honored for telling them.

Similarly, it was a big deal when Sidney Poitier became the first black leading man to win an Oscar in 1964. Or when Halle Berry was the first black woman to win a Best Actress Oscar in 2002. Meantime, no Asian has won or been nominated for Best Actress. (Merle Oberon was part-Indian, but kept it a secret.)

Of course, ''the focus should be on diversity.'' But awards reflect who is, or isn't, included or given the opportunity to win them.

Updated On: 6/15/17 at 02:31 PM

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 2:49pm

Hey Wayman!

Do you mean for 'Best Actress' as opposed to 'Best Supporting Actress'?  

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 3:39pm

Yes. But since my whole post was about leading men and leading ladies, I thought it went without saying. Nevertheless, I amended my post. Thanks.... And for the record, it's not that sterling for Supporting Actress, either. Miyoshi Umeki is the only Asian to win that Oscar category for ''Sayonara,'' and that 60 years ago (!).

Updated On: 6/15/17 at 03:39 PM

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 3:43pm

Jeffrey Karasarides said: "I don't think anyone should cast people of color just for the sake of doing it. I think if you're doing a contemporary piece, there should always be room for people of color.

However, if you're doing a period piece that traditionally has an all-white cast, I think casting directors should start from there and if they can't find any white performers that would be good enough for certain role(s), feel free to do some colorblind casting.

 

"

 

so basically its okay with you that Broadway stays overwhelmingly white? Because that is how you keep broadway overwhelmingly white. 

 

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 4:17pm

GeorgeandDot said: "I would also like to remind people that with shows like Hello, Dolly! and Dear Evan Hansen, we have only seen the original cast.  We may get all shades of color flowing through those shows.  Evan doesn't need to be white and neither does Dolly.  I wouldn't be surprised to see POC playing those roles very soon. 

"

You are... a very optimistic person.

 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 4:18pm

Babe_Williams said: "so basically its okay with you that Broadway stays overwhelmingly white? Because that is how you keep broadway overwhelmingly white."

The percentage of people of color on Broadway is higher than the percentage of people of color in the US population. So what the hell do you want?

 

 

 

Updated On: 6/15/17 at 04:18 PM

[coreman009]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 4:21pm

Dave28282 said: "Babe_Williams said: "so basically its okay with you that Broadway stays overwhelmingly white? Because that is how you keep broadway overwhelmingly white."

The percentage of people of color on Broadway is higher than the percentage of people of color in the US population. So what the hell do you want?

 
Yes! America is 13% black, Broadway has so many more opportunities for them. This has gone way overboard. 

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 4:27pm

As is always the case in threads about race on BWW, I'm getting the distinct impression that a lot of the people talking about it are white (which to be clear, I am too). But when actors of color repeatedly talk about the hurdles they face to get work, maybe stop talking and believe them. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 4:30pm

For "them"?    Oh, boy.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 4:32pm

Rainah said: "They should do colour-blind casting for all roles, whether or not white performers are "good enough."

This. Colour-blind or colour-conscious casting has not hurt Hamilton, Les Mis, Cursed Child, Shakespeare, Great Comet, or any number of fantastical or period pieces. Reimagine it. "

Let's assume we are talking about neutral roles here, where the colour has nothing to do with the story. Colour blind casting is good. Colour-conscious casting is wrong. Not ever should a role be given to a person of a certain colour just because of the sake of it. Neutral casting should never be colour-conscious.

As long as the focus lies on the amount of colored people/winners/oscars/tony's/black reel awards/black history day, etc, etc, etc, it keeps the race separation intact and people will stay colour-conscious. It's a cause-result case.

Rainah said: "If your entire principle cast is white*, there is something wrong with the show. Full stop."

As long as you think like this, there is something wrong with you. Full stop. 

If 9 out of 10 people auditioning for a role are white (population standards) it is not rocket science that the chances of the role being cast white are 9 times higher. You might like colour-focus to kick in, but that is the start of the problem.

 

Updated On: 6/15/17 at 04:32 PM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 4:34pm

The wise Morgan Freeman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s

[binau]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 4:53pm

Jeffrey Karasarides said: "I don't think anyone should cast people of color just for the sake of doing it. I think if you're doing a contemporary piece, there should always be room for people of color.

However, if you're doing a period piece that traditionally has an all-white cast, I think casting directors should start from there and if they can't find any white performers that would be good enough for certain role(s), feel free to do some colorblind casting.

 

"

I don't know if I agree with this. If race is not important they should cast people who are the best for the role -  they may be white or may not be white. It almost sounds like you're saying they should be white but default to non-white if there aren't any good enough whites? I find that to be an odd way to look at it. 

 

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 7:49pm

Qolbinau, well-said! ... White is often the first choice and the default choice because most audiences are white, and that's who many movies, TV shows, etc., want to reach. Studies have been done of white TV viewers and black TV viewers. Each group was asked to list their top 10 favorite programs. Guess what? White TV viewers watched mostly shows with predominantly white characters, and black TV viewers watched mostly shows with predominantly black characters. The handful of shows that appeared on both lists, featured white and black characters. It's not rocket science.

Stories about the human experience may be universal, but people still like to identify with faces that look like their own.

Updated On: 6/15/17 at 07:49 PM

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 7:57pm

VintageSnarker said: "GeorgeandDot said: "I would also like to remind people that with shows like Hello, Dolly! and Dear Evan Hansen, we have only seen the original cast.  We may get all shades of color flowing through those shows.  Evan doesn't need to be white and neither does Dolly.  I wouldn't be surprised to see POC playing those roles very soon. 

"

You are... a very optimistic person.

 *Sigh* I try to be, but we will see.

 

[Sunny11]

Posted: 6/15/17 at 8:11pm

Race isn't just about skin colour, it comes with its own sub culture.

Bend it like Beckham wasn't the best musical that I have seen but as a British born Asian like the lead I connected with it a lot. While watching it I felt like a piece of me was being mirrored back. It wasn't just about how they looked but    about its depiction of family life and the particular values and expectations that people from Indian backgrounds have.

Personaly I would prefer that POCs theather professionals created shows with characters that are POC instead of just  going after historical white parts. That would take the cause further in terms of audience representation.