#TonysSoWhite ?- Page 2

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 1:09am

Lea originated roles in Flower Drum Song and Allegiance, productions arguably not worthy of her talent and only about Asian struggles, none even her own nationality.

[TerrenceIsTheMann]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 1:26am

It is not the TONYs fault. It is casting directors. Tony awards are about the best performances of the season. We need to be seeing more people for all roles. That is why Oscars are actually at fault, as they have many more options to choose from. If Alana is a token role, (which it isnt, and Im sure Kristolyn Lloyd would be offended hearing that) then how is just giving an award or nomination to someone who didn't have the/one of the best performance/s of the year not a token move? There will always be snubs, but to me, although Jon Jon and Amber Gray were snubs, to me so were Mark Ruffalo and Gideon Glick. I think the fault lands with casting directors and producers. Change it at the roots.

Updated On: 6/13/17 at 01:26 AM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 2:52am

I basically agree with everything JBroadway and HeyMrMusic said except I don't know who thinks of Billy as a "troubled romantic." He's problematic whatever the race of the actor playing him. I did think about it during the broadcast and it did bother me that in spite of the diversity this season (though it's not as great as it was last season) what we got was mostly white and mostly male people accepting awards. And casting directors are to blame but also some of the producers of those mostly white shows giving their speeches the other night. And let's not forget the non-acting categories. We could have had Paloma Young or Catherine Zuber or Rachel Chavkin accepting awards last night but we didn't.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 2:58am

When the subject of race comes up, why do some people automatically bring up ''quotas''? No one is for  quotas. But actors of color just want more opportunities, and not to be limited to roles that are only race-specific. There are roles where one's ethnicity is germane to the story, and there are roles where it is not.

As Lin-Manuel Miranda pointed out, last year was a fluke in terms of diversity on Broadway, thanks largely to his ''Hamilton,'' ''The Color Purple'' and ''Shuffle Along.'' Out of 40 Tony-nominated actors, 14 of them were performers of color, and remarkably, they won 4 out of the 8 categories. Very different picture this year: Out of 40 Tony-nominated actors, only 6 of them are performers of color, and none of them won any categories. ... Just out of curiosity, I Googled the Tony nominees for 2015, the year before ''Hamilton'' hit  Broadway. It was even worse. There were 41 acting nominees; only 4 of whom were people of color, and none of them won. ... The battle for ethnic actors isn't about winning Tonys; it's about getting cast in award-caliber roles that give them the opportunity to showcase their skills.

Meantime, the irony of ''Miss Saigon'' is that a white actor in ''yellowface'' could WIN a Tony as the Engineer, but an Asian-American actor couldn't even get Tony-NOMINATED in that role.

Updated On: 6/13/17 at 02:58 AM

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 7:25am

TerrenceIsTheMann said: "It is not the TONYs fault. It is casting directors. Tony awards are about the best performances of the season. 

 

"

Tony is NEVER only about the best performances of the season. I seriously doubt most people who've seen both Jon Jon's performance and David Hyde Pierce's would prefer the latter (not saying that DHP is not an amazing actor, but if we are only talking in terms of the strength of performance this season). Obviously, the committee wanted to give Dolly nominations while not being so hot about Saigon. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 8:57am

Sunny11 said: "It's a shame that Miss Saigon, a POC heavy cast, was badly reviewed so didn't produce as many Tony nominees as it could of."

I think Eva Noblezada earned her nomination (and gave the best Tonys performance in the revival category), and Jon Jon Briones was inexcusably overlooked. I also think the superb Devin Ilaw (Thuy) should have been nominated in the Featured Actor category.

Updated On: 6/13/17 at 08:57 AM

[Rainah]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 9:45am

TerrenceIsTheMann said: "It is not the TONYs fault. It is casting directors. Tony awards are about the best performances of the season. We need to be seeing more people for all roles. That is why Oscars are actually at fault, as they have many more options to choose from. If Alana is a token role, (which it isnt, and Im sure Kristolyn Lloyd would be offended hearing that) then how is just giving an award or nomination to someone who didn't have the/one of the best performance/s of the year not a token move? There will always be snubs, but to me, although Jon Jon and Amber Gray were snubs, to me so were Mark Ruffalo and Gideon Glick. I think the fault lands with casting directors and producers. Change it at the roots."

It's true, the power lies with the directors and the casting. But everyone has a part to play. Audiences who ignores actors of colour and the characters they play, tonys that don't recognize them... it all contributes to a homogeny of whiteness. A big feedback loop of producers hiring big name white actors for their big shows, that are then marketed aggressively, that then generate big followings, that make the white actors even bigger stars. Not many shows are willing to take chances on talent outside the norm. Doubly so when it's colourblind casting AND an unknown. 

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 10:12am

HeyMrMusic said: "Yes, that is true, but also how many opportunities have Bette, David, Kate, and Gavin had to finally arrive at this moment in this production and two of them finally get career Tonys? How many chances will Eva Noblezada have to have the same success, the same room to grow and finally land a plum role to win a Tony? Even after Lea Salonga won the Tony for Miss Saigon, she never got a role worthy of her talents ever again because she was never really considered for one because of her race.

There's no reason why Evan Hansen or Connor Murphy or Jared Kleinman can't be played by an actor of color. Race does not play a factor in any of the characters in Dear Evan Hansen, and casting Alana Becker as black does feel like a token ensemble member situation.

I was just talking with friends today that no one ever fights for people of color in casting, but it's always talked about when there are all-black, all-POC productions of shows because they have to make opportunities for themselves. When white people don't see themselves onstage, that's when the conversation starts. Why can't you have shows all the time like Waitress or Groundhog Day or The Great Comet where race doesn't play a factor and the casting is as colorful as the world is? Why do POC have to only do shows that deal with their oppression in society rather than play "everyday, normal people"?

 

"

I am with you. Some of these responses are making my head hurt. 

[evic]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 10:49am

I am so over this discussion every year. Get back to me when a white actor is cast in an August Wilson play. The title of the musical is Dear Evan Hansen not Dear Evan Johnson!

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 10:57am

evic said: "I am so over this discussion every year. Get back to me when a white actor is cast in an August Wilson play. The title of the musical is Dear Evan Hansen not Dear Evan Johnson!

 

"

I don't get it.  Also, its amazing that Broadway producers don't fill more roles with diverse casting choices when the 3 Hamilton casts have no problems finding diverse talent. 

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 11:26am

evic said: "I am so over this discussion every year. Get back to me when a white actor is cast in an August Wilson play. The title of the musical is Dear Evan Hansen not Dear Evan Johnson!

 

"

I'm not aware that you have to be Caucasian to be a Hansen. Also, have you seen any August Wilson play? I can't wrap my head around the idea that anyone who has any experience with August Wilson plays is not aware of race being central to the worlds and ideas of his plays.

Updated On: 6/13/17 at 11:26 AM

[SueBee06]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 11:27am

evic said: "I am so over this discussion every year. Get back to me when a white actor is cast in an August Wilson play. The title of the musical is Dear Evan Hansen not Dear Evan Johnson!

 

Get back to me when as many August Wilson plays are produced on Broadway as revivals of Arthur Miller's or Tennessee Williams'. When the number of roles available to white and actors of color is equal, then your argument has merit. Until then it really doesn't.

Moving beyond this post, it really takes having someone in the room to say, "Hey, what about...?" If there is no one at the table thinking to widen the casting net, then the net doesn't widen. That, to me, is one of the roots of the problem. And it can't be left just to POC to say that. 

 

[JudyDenmark]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 12:12pm

VintageSnarker said: "We could have had Paloma Young or Catherine Zuber or Rachel Chavkin accepting awards last night but we didn't."

See, this is ridiculous to me. I'm an active feminist, but the absolute last thing I want is women winning awards just because they're women. Those women didn't win because the voters felt that others in their categories were a better choice. I think it's important to have diversity at the ground level, but when it comes to awards, it makes me cringe to think that voters are checking boxes based on quotas rather than on who created the best work. 

 

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 12:12pm

Also, what is the race of that person making the decision? Most likely white. A nonwhite casting director would almost always think outside the race box because they would want to see themselves represented onstage.

It's ridiculous and offensive to believe a black, Asian, Latino person can't have the last name Hansen, a generic American name, or that a black person can only play characters whose last name is Johnson. I have Filipino cousins who are Jewish and have a last name not native to the Philippines. Of course, in the eyes of society, they're still considered Asian regardless of their last name or mixed appearance.

With my Alana Beck comment (hey, is that a black enough name for the character and actor playing her?!), I meant that if she wasn't cast with a black actor (or other actor of color), it would be the whitest cast on Broadway. She's the token person to give it color. I'm thrilled it's played by a talented no-name actor of color, so it's not a strike against the actor or character but rather the general casting of the show. (Again to my previous comment about Jared Kleinman and my Jewish Filipino cousins...it could work with a person of color.) Even Next to Normal eventually thought outside the box and many saw Pearl Sun go on in Alice Ripley's stead.

To clarify, Jon Jon Briones isn't Asian American; I believe he's just Filipino (from the Philippines).

[Rainah]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 12:20pm

The problem with Alana in DEH is that even people trying to defend the show can't remember her name. "Not Zoe, the other one" isn't exactly a plum role that gets you nominated for a tony. And were there ANY non-white people with speaking roles in Dolly?

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 12:29pm

Though he was born in Manila, Briones calls L.A. his home, and he's been an U.S. citizen since 2010. So, yes, he's Asian-American.

Updated On: 6/13/17 at 12:29 PM

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 12:31pm

Haha, thanks Wayman! (I actually wasn't too sure, I knew he was born in the Philippines but wasn't sure where he called home.)

[newintown]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 12:41pm

"Get back to me when as many August Wilson plays are produced on Broadway as revivals of Arthur Miller's or Tennessee Williams'."

Number of productions of Wilson plays on Broadway in the last 10 years: 4
Number of productions of Miller plays on Broadway in the last 10 years: 6
Number of productions of Williams plays on Broadway in the last 10 years: 5

That doesn't sound particularly disparate to me, particularly given the more iconic status of Miller and Williams plays (generated, perhaps, as much by time elapsed since inception as intrinsic quality). There's also this:
Number of productions of O'Neill plays on Broadway in the last 10 years: 4
Number of productions of Odets plays on Broadway in the last 10 years: 3
Number of productions of Inge plays on Broadway in the last 10 years: 2
Number of productions of Simon plays on Broadway in the last 10 years: 1
Number of productions of Hellman plays on Broadway in the last 10 years: 1
Number of productions of Albee plays on Broadway in the last 10 years: 2
Number of productions of Wilder plays on Broadway in the last 10 years: 0

"When the number of roles available to white and actors of color is equal, then your argument has merit."

The 2010 census states that the US population is 72.4% white, 12.6% African-American, 4.8% Asian, etc. So an equal number of roles for white actors and actors of color wouldn't actually fall within the definition of "equitable" or "proportionate."

I get where you're coming from, and I also believe that there are a lot of Broadway shows (like Hello, Dolly) in which the principle roles are cast lily-white and needn't be. But I think one needs to work a bit harder to put forth a cogent argument.

Updated On: 6/13/17 at 12:41 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 12:50pm

Wilson is certainly very well-represented. The issue is that playwrights of color generally are not well-represented on Broadway or at the Tonys as a whole. The last African-American playwright, for instance, to win Best Play was actually Wilson himself... in 1987.

Updated On: 6/13/17 at 12:50 PM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 12:52pm

JudyDenmark said: "VintageSnarker said: "We could have had Paloma Young or Catherine Zuber or Rachel Chavkin accepting awards last night but we didn't."

See, this is ridiculous to me. I'm an active feminist, but the absolute last thing I want is women winning awards just because they're women. Those women didn't win because the voters felt that others in their categories were a better choice. I think it's important to have diversity at the ground level, but when it comes to awards, it makes me cringe to think that voters are checking boxes based on quotas rather than on who created the best work. 

Who said anything about quotas? I didn't pick random names of nominated women. I specifically chose them because they had a good shot of winning in their categories unlike Eva or Denee. 

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 1:01pm

Kad said: "Wilson is certainly very well-represented. The issue is that playwrights of color generally are not well-represented on Broadway or at the Tonys as a whole. The last African-American playwright, for instance, to win Best Play was actually Wilson himself... in 1987."

Right. Wilson is kind of an anomaly in terms of black playwrights- a better example is someone like Suzan-Lori Parks or Lynn Nottage. And there's certainly an extreme dearth of Asian, Hispanic, etc, playwrights on Broadway as well. 

[kdogg36]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 1:08pm

Kad said: "The last African-American playwright, for instance, to win Best Play was actually Wilson himself... in 1987."

I know this might have been answered elsewhere - I haven't gone through the entire Tony viewing thread, for example - but was Wilson included in the Best Revival Tony this year per the updated rule?

[kdogg36]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 1:08pm

[duplicate]

Updated On: 6/13/17 at 01:08 PM

[newintown]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 1:09pm

"The issue is that playwrights of color generally are not well-represented on Broadway or at the Tonys as a whole. The last African-American playwright, for instance, to win Best Play was actually Wilson himself... in 1987."

Definitely true - but does that tell a full story? Playwrights of color who have been Tony nominated in the past 15 years include Lynn Nottage, Danai Gurira, Ayad Akhtar, Stephen Karam (Lebanese descent and a Tony winner), Stephen Adly Guirgis (Euro-Egyptian), Nilo Cruz, and Suzan-LoriParks. I think that speaks to progress. And that doesn't count nominees for other writing categories (George C. Wolfe, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Robert Lopez, Bill T. Jones, Quiara Alegría Hudes, Stew, etc.). It also seems to focus on Broadway alone as representative of all dramatic writing opportunity, ignoring Off Broadway and regional theatre, and television and film.

Yes, Broadway is predominantly white; so are its audiences. And Broadway doesn't (despite the opinion of a very vocal minority) represent the absolute best of American theatre. But at least the opportunities for writers and performers of color are growing, it seems. If one demands an equal number of plays written by writers of color as white writers; or an equal number of roles cast with performers of color as whites - well, that person will probably never see what they want come to pass.

Updated On: 6/13/17 at 01:09 PM

[KathyNYC2]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 1:13pm

Dancingthrulife2 said: "TerrenceIsTheMann said: "It is not the TONYs fault. It is casting directors. Tony awards are about the best performances of the season. 

 

"

Tony is NEVER only about the best performances of the season. I seriously doubt most people who've seen both Jon Jon's performance and David Hyde Pierce's would prefer the latter (not saying that DHP is not an amazing actor, but if we are only talking in terms of the strength of performance this season). Obviously, the committee wanted to give Dolly nominations while not being so hot about Saigon. 

 

"

Yes though I love David Hyde P, there is no way his performance was better and more fully developed that JonJon in Saigon. Nor actually was Josh groban's in Comet. And yes though I'm not the first person to yell racism in all situations, it was ironic that a white man won the Tony for his role as The Engineer but Jon Jon who was as good or possibly couldn't even muster a nomination.