Why wasn't Channing in the HELLO, DOLLY movie?- Page 3

[ChanceWayne]

Posted: 7/13/05 at 4:53pm

And Ball can't sing better than Lansbury yet she got "Mame"!

[ChiChi]

Posted: 7/13/05 at 6:16pm

It might have something to do with the fact that Channing sounds like sand paper with a disorder.

[nealb1]

Posted: 6/17/17 at 11:33pm

Getting back to the original question of this thread...............why wasn't Channing in the "Hello, Dolly" movie.

Angela Lansbury has been asked many, many times over the decades why she wasn't in the film version of "Mame."  And, her answer is always the same - and I'm sure Carol says the same thing, "Nobody ever asked me."

[fredric47]

Posted: 6/17/17 at 11:50pm

I am fascinated to read that Michael Stewart told someone that Barbra Streisand was his favorite Dolly since he told me in 1968 after Ms. Streisand had been announced for the title role in the film version of "Hello, Dolly!" that "she is no more Dolly Gallagher Levi than I am." Michael Stewart was the first queenly man that I ever met. So I don't think his remark is totally accurate because like Lee Roy Reams and Danny La Rue he could have convincingly played Dolly in drag!

[goldenboy]

Posted: 6/18/17 at 12:24am

Um I caught Lee Roy Reames as Dolly in Hello Dolly. Trust me ... he couldn't play Dolly Levi.
 He was so hell bent on being a convincing woman that ALL of the humor was lost. I love Lee Roy Reames.. especially as Duane in Applause and in 42 nd Street. But Dolly he ain't

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/18/17 at 1:21am

lol @ MargoChanning saying Carol Channing was more physically attractive than Barbra Streisand. Streisand may have been a bit quirky but she's always been beautiful,

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 6/18/17 at 2:33am

While Streisand sings the role gorgeously and sounds great on the soundtrack, she was never Dolly Levi.  She was never right for the part.  She was a comedic, quirky, pretty, character actress who just happened to also have one of the greatest voices of all time.  It sounds like a dream on paper, but are supposed to believe that she has already been married and lost her husband by the time that we meet her?  How old was she when she married Ephraim? 12?  She was just far too young to play the role.

Carol Channing was and still is Dolly Levi, but Barbara was the movie star, so the role went to her.

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 6/18/17 at 2:40am

I love the film version with Barbra. It is a bit bombastic at times, but it remains a great movie musical. Barbra sings the he'll out of Dolly, and she is quite funny; however, her comic timing pales in comparison to that of Carol Channing. There are professionally filmed videos of Channing's performance out that that, for some reason, we're never made commercially available. If you are fortunate enough to ever get the chance to see one of those videos, watch the scene in The Harmonia Gardens in which she finishes her dinner alone before going to court. It is a masterclass in comedy and makes you dream of the movie that might have been.

[BuddyStarr]

Posted: 6/18/17 at 9:45am

As a young (not yet out) gay I was obsessed with Hello Dolly the movie.  I got our family to take us to the Stars Hall of Fame in Orlando, FL because they had a wax figure of Barbra in one the costumes from Dolly. (I think I have the photo somewhere)  Then when we vacationed in Penn we did a train ride through Amish county aboard one of the cars feature in the film for Sunday Clothes.  Although I was most disappointed that the dress Dolly wore in the film was basically orange and not the standard red.  

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/18/17 at 3:05pm

^^^^^

Honestly, I don't know why you thought needed to "come out". Surely there was no mystery.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 6/18/17 at 3:23pm

Ever notice in that ghastly movie that while That Streisand Woman is singing so gloriously, the parade actually passes her by?

[Willy Loman2]

Posted: 6/18/17 at 4:30pm

Channing was simply to big for the screen.  Her Dolly was a caricature.  I liked her in TMM but she was way over the top.  Streisand was young but she always seemed somewhat ageless.  She certainly didn't look or act 26.  And she sang the hell out of the score.  I've always thought they should have cast Ginger Rogers with Fred Astaire as Horace.  Doris Day would also have been great.   Lucy in Mame was a total disaster.  Lansbury should have gotten it but Streisand would also have been woonderful!

 

 

[CallMeAl2]

Posted: 6/18/17 at 6:51pm

Willy Loman2 said: "... I've always thought they should have cast Ginger Rogers with Fred Astaire as Horace.  Doris Day would also have been great.  ..."

What a wonderful idea! I believe that Astaire was filming Finian's Rainbow at Warners about the same time as Dolly.

Of course the ideal Dolly was on the Fox lot in 1967 for a couple weeks filming Valley of the Dolls: Judy Garland. I have always suspected that was a test run to see if she was a possibility, but that question was, unfortunately, answered rather quickly when she couldn't deal with the pressure of Valley and had to be replaced. Too bad. She would have been a helluva Dolly and the impact of her coming down the stairs and being told she was back where she belonged (being directed by Gene Kelley, no less) would have been a moment to remember. With Garland the old-fashioned treatment of the material would have seemed appropriate, especially with so many of the old Arthur Freed team on hand (Kelly, Saul Chaplin, Roger Edens who pretty much molded her as a child into the star she became).

The Streisand casting is really two separate questions:

1. Why did Lehman and Zanuck want her?

2. Why did Streisand want to do Dolly?

Most people have been talking about the first question. First of all I think you have to understand that they eliminated Carol from the running fairly early - as soon as Lehman saw a rough cut of Millie. Once Channing is eliminated then the thinking became focused. Clearly, Streisand was the future. Most other choices would have been nostalgia for the past - casting a former MGM musical star like Ginger Rogers, Ann Miller or Debbie Reynolds. Lehman decided to bet on the future and catch a rising star rather than try and resurrect a descending one.

The second question is really more interesting. The fact is that Streisand didn't really want to do Hello, Dolly!.  Ray Stark strong-armed her into a multi-picture contract in order for her to do Funny Girl. Barbra's agent - Marty Erlichman felt she was underpaid for her first movie and wanted to raise her asking price. Dolly turned out to be the ideal vehicle for that. He asked $1 million for Barbra's services. Since she didn't really care whether she got the role of not, she could lose the part, but the word on the street would be that if you want to do a Streisand musical, it will cost you a million.

To the surprise of the Streisand camp, Fox took the bait and met her price. For them, the movie was going to be expensive anyway, and there were certain bragging rights they could claim that they had the highest paid actress in the world as their star.

So without even wanting the role, Barbra got it. I'm sure at first it seemed like quite the prize and even a bit of vindication for losing the Tony to Carol. But once Funny Girl wrapped and it was time to move to Fox for Dolly, reality set in. The script was well structured, but nonsense dramatically. The really good ballads in the show that would have fit Barbra ("Ribbons Down My Back", "It Only Takes a Moment" ) were all sung by supporting characters. From the beginning Barbra was at sea as to how to pull off this role - and probably suddenly aware that she hadn't had to exercise her acting chops to create a new character since 1964.

Anyway, the rest is history. To this day Dolly is the one film Streisand doesn't like to talk about. I am sure it is clear in retrospect that it's a picture she would have rather passed on and given that year of her life to something else.

 

Updated On: 6/18/17 at 06:51 PM

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 6/18/17 at 7:15pm

Streisand HAS spoken about HELLO, DOLLY! and admits she was way too young to play the role and validates she was miscast.  

Channing, as mentioned several times above, was just TOO much a personality she came across like a human cartoon.  Being projected on an enormous silver screen for almost 3 hours would have given audiences a headache.  The fact that she roughly appears for maybe 12 minutes in the film THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE and was nominated for a Best Supporting Actress Oscar goes to show you how much of an impact she made in that film.  That was only for 12 minutes of screen time.  Imagine ALL that personality for almost 3 hours.  This is basically why she never found a career in films and limited bits on television.   Her personality played perfectly on a Broadway stage - not with the intimacy of film and television.  

[nealb1]

Posted: 6/18/17 at 9:24pm

The Streisand casting is really two separate questions:

1. Why did Lehman and Zanuck want her?  Because 20th Century Fox wanted a HUGE star for their film.  As another poster had posted earlier, when 20th Century Fox bought the rights and Ernest Lehman began to adapt the musical for his screenplay, he made her a younger widow.  Regardless of whomever was picked - it was already decided that a younger widow is what the studio wanted. 

2. Why did Streisand want to do Dolly?   Because she was offered $1 million to do it - a huge sum of money in 1968.  She'd be crazy to turn that down.

 

Updated On: 6/18/17 at 09:24 PM

[MrsSallyAdams]

Posted: 6/19/17 at 7:13am

I can't recall anything in the screenplay explaining Dolly's youth. She was still talking (and singing) about her love of her first husband.

For me the Streisand/Matthau pairing makes Dolly vulgar and mercenary. On stage she says she's marrying Horace "for his money" but most actresses play the role with genuine affection for Horace. It comes across in the restaurant scene. Some Horace's play hateful right up till the finale but others begrudgingly soften to Dolly beforehand.

By written accounts Streisand and Matthau detested each other. It comes across on screen giving the whole thing a sour taste.

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 6/19/17 at 8:53am

"By written accounts Streisand and Matthau detested each other. It comes across on screen giving the whole thing a sour taste."

I blame Matthau for that. He didn't give Barbra one damn thing to work with. No way did I want her to settle for that cold blowhard. 

 

[Theater_Nerd]

Posted: 6/19/17 at 10:03am

Carol Channing and her husband actually attended the premiere of the film version of "Hello Dolly!" at New York's Rivoli Theater in 1969.

[nealb1]

Posted: 6/19/17 at 11:12am

In his autobiography, Jerry Herman talks about how much he loves the film now and praises Barbra’s performance.  At the time, he wanted Carol Channing to do the film, and it really clouded his judgement and he wasn’t objective.  But, that wasn't his decision to make.

 

One of the things that I always hear people say is, “Barbra was too young to do this movie.”  During the 1890's, women got married when they were 16, 17 years old.  She really wasn't when you consider the time that it's set in. Then others say that Carol Channing was robbed and should have done the film version. It's very rare that the person who originated the role on stage, can repeat it on the big screen. Yes, it's happened - Rex Harrison "My Fair Lady," Yul Brynner "The King & I," etc. But, it's very rare.

The producer of the film didn't want Carol to do the film. Barbra was given $1 million to do the film.  She'd be crazy to turn that down.

Quite a few years ago I went to a screening of the film in LA and Mrs. Gene Kelly was there and talked about the film. Yes, Barbra & Walter did not get along during the filming. That happens quite frequently when films are made that co-stars don't get along. It's really not that big a deal, and not unusual at all. I've had a few coworkers over the years that I'd love to never have to speak to again. Ha, ha...

Many years later they kissed and made up.  It was Walter’s wife Carol who reunited them.  Carol was a huge Barbra fan.  You can see him and his wife in the opening credits of her 1986 "One Voice" concert as well as her 1994 Anaheim "Barbra: The Concert."

One of the reasons why it was so expensive to produce was thanks to David Merrick - the producer of the show on Broadway. There was a stipulation in the contract that the film couldn't be released until so many years after the show had opened - when ticket sales would naturally come down. Well, that didn't happen, and the film couldn’t be released until almost 1 & ½ years later.  And, FOX had to pay him many millions – per the contract stipulating the release date, based on expected lower ticket sales.  He was a very smart business man. But, he was also a bull in a china shop and his own worst enemy at the same time. 

Mrs. Kelly also brought with her telegrams and hand written notes that Gene had received after the film opened - from Cary Grant & Irving Berlin. Each praising the film and how amazing Barbra's performance and singing was.

She also discussed that Barbra would bring food with her to the set - for the crew, for the extras and for the cast. She was always very appreciative to the crew. They were always the unsung heros.

HD played at Graumann's Chinese Theatre in Hollywood for almost 1 year, and it was the 4th largest grossing film the year it came out.

It was nominated for 7 Academy Awards, including Best Picture and won 3 Oscars on the big night. At the time, the 14th Street set on the FOX backlot was the largest ever built. Parts of the set still stand to this day and are used for film & television – still generating revenue for HD’s bottom line.

Mrs. Kelly talked about how Gene really didn't want to direct the film. But, he owed FOX a picture, as did Walter M. They were both under contract, and didn't have a say so as to which picture they wanted.  By the time the studio signed Gene on to direct, everyone else was pretty much in place.  Gene wanted to make the movie more intimate – like the original play, and stage musical.  But, 20th Century Fox wanted to go all out on the movie.  And, he did not agree with that.  But, he had no choice. 

Mrs. Kelly also spoke about how much Barbra & Gene respected and liked one another.  Yes, they had difference of opinions regarding how certain scenes should be filmed, etc.  Every actor & director has that experience.  She also said that when Gene's house in Beverly Hills burned down in 1983, Barbra was the first person to reach out to him and offer any assistance she could give.   

The audience at the screening love all the behind the scenes stories that Mrs. Kelly told us all.  It was a great evening. 

 

Updated On: 6/19/17 at 11:12 AM

[MCfan2]

Posted: 6/19/17 at 12:19pm

I've always heard people say Barbra was miscast in the movie, but I've always liked her in it nonetheless. Though if she really dissed Gene Kelly like that, that annoys me severely. (A tap dancer for a director, indeed! Gene Kelly was directing when La Streisand hadn't even started grade school!) Still, all that aside, I like the humor and pizzazz she brought to the role. 

[Demitri2]

Posted: 6/19/17 at 1:45pm

For the same reason she wasn't cast in the film version of GENTLEMEN PREFER BLONDES.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 6/19/17 at 1:46pm

To repeat myself, Barbra Streisand herself has stated and agreed she was too young to play Dolly Levi.  She herself has said she knows she was miscast in the film version of HELLO, DOLLY!  

[nealb1]

Posted: 6/19/17 at 2:19pm

Barbra has loosened up on her opinion of HD over the years.  When she toured in 2000 with her "Timeless" tour in Los Angeles and New York City, her next to the last song in the concert was "Hello, Dolly!"  When she toured in 2006, she referenced HD in the program, as well as from the concert stage - repeating her line, "Money is like manure.  It's not worth a thing unless it's spread around, encouraging young things to grow."

As far as Barbra saying she was miscast, she's always said that. Doesn't take away from her performance or our enjoyment of it.  
 

Updated On: 6/19/17 at 02:19 PM

[Willy Loman2]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 1:51pm

Judy Garland as Dolly? What a wonderful idea.  She would have been amazing.  I've read that they also considered Julie Andrews!  Talk about miscasting!  I'm glad Streisand did it.  We would have always wondered, "what would Streisand's Dolly have been like?"   Also would have loved to have seen her as Mame!!!

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 7/6/17 at 1:47pm