Why was Victor/Victoria shut out of the Tony Awards?

[Chase Miller]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 9:55am

I recently watched the pro shot of Victor/Victoria with Julie Andrews and couldn't understand why the show got no love from the tony awards besides Julie's nomination. I thought Rachel York almost stole the show and there are other great performances and set designs in the show. I didn't think the songs were good besides Le Jazz Hot but there were other worthy aspects of the show that should have been nominated.

Updated On: 4/20/23 at 09:55 AM

[MayAudraBlessYou2]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 11:09am

It was one of the most shocking snubs at the time. And led Andrews to refuse her nomination (though she did not make that announcement in time for the Tonys to actually remove her from the ballot. I always wonder how many actual votes she received despite her saying she was refusing it). Many widely presumed that the show would at least be also nominated for Best Musical, Costumes, Set, and Featured Actress for Rachel York (York actually won the Drama Desk that season).

I know back in the 90s, the Tony nominating committee was MUCH smaller. A cursory google claims that year saw a nominating committee of just 14 people. When you have a voting group that tiny, individualistic tastes very easily pop up in nominations. All it takes really is for a few voters to feel strongly about a different show (like Swinging on a Star and Chronicle of a Death Foretold which took surprise slots in the best musical race).

These days, the nominating committee starts out with about 50 members. Though usually at least a few have to recuse themselves by the end of the season due to becoming involved with a show, or missing a show/performance. I know we are already down to 43 for this season, we shall see if anyone else has to bow out.

Updated On: 4/20/23 at 11:09 AM

[Dollypop]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 11:33am

It really wasn't a good show.

[Chase Miller]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 11:50am

It’s crazy that only 14 people were able to nominated shows in those days. I didn’t realize Rachel York won the drama desk award. Makes perfect sense though! 

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 12:08pm

There were also only 4 slots in each category back then and you had 2 highly acclaimed new musicals (Rent and Bring in da Noise, Bring in da Funk) and 2 highly acclaimed revivals (King and I and Forum).  Plus weird decisions like Rodgers and Hammerstein being eligible for Score.  So there just wasn't a lot of room for Victor / Victoria to land.

[broadway86]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 12:58pm

At the very least, the sets, costumes, and Rachel York deserved nominations, in addition to Dame Julie.

[BJR]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 1:00pm

Broadway61004 said: "There were also only 4 slots in each category back then and you had 2 highly acclaimed new musicals (Rent and Bring in da Noise, Bring in da Funk) and 2 highly acclaimed revivals (King and I and Forum). Plus weird decisions like Rodgers and Hammerstein being eligible for Score. So there just wasn't a lot of room for Victor / Victoria to land."

Wait. King and I was eligible for Score??

[NOWaWarning]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 1:06pm

BJR said: “Wait. King and I was eligible for Score??"

No, State Fair

[Jarethan]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 1:17pm

IMO the show was lousy.  Andrews was excellent, to me Rachel York’s performance was embarrassing it was so over the top.  The score had a few decent songs from the movie…nothing original made any impression.  I don’t remember the other nominees for sets…it might have been hurt there, but it was nothing particularly special.  Anthony Roberts paled next to Robert Preston.

I had the misfortune to see it a second time on the road (part of a subscription series.  Without Andrews, it was even worse.

[Demitri2]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 1:45pm

Egregious. I recall thinking back that this was a reversal of what happened with PHANTOM OF THE OPERA. That show received ten TONY nominations yet the female lead, Sarah Brightman, was overlooked. Luckily, she was able to embark on a highly successful international career of her own. 

With V/V, Big Julie received the only TONY nomination. Period. 

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 1:57pm

NOWaWarning said: "BJR said: “Wait. King and I was eligible for Score??"

No, State Fair"

Sorry, should have clarified--yes, that was the same year as State Fair, which they were nominated for (even though most of the songs were written 30 years prior).

[Jarethan]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 2:03pm

Demitri2 said: "Egregious. I recall thinking back that this was a reversal of what happened with PHANTOM OF THE OPERA. That show received ten TONY nominations yet the female lead, Sarah Brightman, was overlooked. Luckily, she was able to embark on a highly successful international career of her own.

With V/V, Big Julie received the only TONY nomination. Period."

Interestingly, not only was Sarah B overlooked.  BP was overlooked for ITW.  Yet Alison Fraser got nominated for the mediocre Romance Romance and the always good Judy Kuhn was nominated for the 10 week run of Chess.  The other nominees knocked it out of the park, Joanna Gleason for ITW and Patti Lupone — who I personally thought should have won — for Anything Goes, in which she was spectacularly good.  Re Brightman, the nominators just didn’t want to nominate her, probably dismissing her as a nepo baby of her time.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 2:04pm

I think the show is a hoot and I agree that it should have probably received nominations for scenery and costumes as well as a nomination for Rachel York, and in a weaker season, maybe even a nomination for Gregory Jbara in the featured actor category. Victor/Victoria has the advantage of having been filmed so it's easier to watch it on blu-ray and look back and wonder what the voters were thinking. Having said that I don't think the additional nominations would have helped the show run longer and I think The King and I would have still won the design awards even if Victor/Victoria had been in the race.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 2:16pm

I loved it- seeing Julie in person was a thrill for me. I found the show very entertaining- loved the Paris scenery- the music- and found the whole production to be excellent. I never understood why it was not more popular.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 3:56pm

Another thing to remember is that the design awards weren’t separated between musicals and plays at the time, so competition was even tighter for those categories and just being the biggest or flashiest wasn’t enough to ensure a nomination. 

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 4:55pm

I get why it missed out on some of the design categories and even some of the acting categories, but it still seems surprising that Victor/Victoria (and Big) were both passed over for Swinging on a Star and Chronicle of a Death Foretold (obviously Rent and Da Funk were shoo-ins). Seems like a blatant rejection of them.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 6:58pm

''it still seems surprising that Victor/Victoria (and Big) were both passed over for Swinging on a Star and Chronicle of a Death Foretold (obviously Rent and Da Funk were shoo-ins). Seems like a blatant rejection of them.''

Couldn't agree more. When this same topic about ''Victor/Victoria'' and the Tonys recently popped on Talkin' Broadway's All That Chat, someone posted: ''It turned out there WAS collusion between  nominating committee members  to make sure that both 'Victor/Victoria' and 'Big' were not nominated for Best Musical.''

I'd love to see a substantiated source for that, but I can say: ''Victor/Victoria'' and ''Big'' might not have been perfect shows, but they certainly were worthier of a Best Musical nomination than ''Chronicle of a Death Foretold'' and  ''Swinging on a Star.'' The former was a dour dance-drama that ran only 37 performances, and the latter was a flop cabaret-type revue that lasted only 96 performances, and its only Tony nomination was Best Musical (as if it were only there to fill out the category). 

Meantime, I still think the Tonys are overdue to give a Lifetime Achievement award to Julie Andrews, now 87. She originated the iconic roles of Eliza in ''My Fair Lady'' and Guinevere in ''Camelot.'' Next year marks the 70th anniversary of her Broadway debut in ''The Boyfriend,'' and she is still known worldwide by filmgoers as Maria von Trapp of ''The Sound of Music'' and the title star of ''Mary Poppins.''

Updated On: 4/20/23 at 06:58 PM

[commopics]

Posted: 4/20/23 at 7:51pm

IMO, CHRONICLE OF A DEATH FORETOLD was a better show than either V/V or BIG. Willa KIm deserved a nom. York showed talent, which was misused by her director, but I'd still probably have nominated her. As usually happens, the better productions (Rent, Bring in Da Noise, King & I) got most of the nominations even in categories where they're less deserving.

[Chase Miller]

Posted: 4/21/23 at 12:01am

I find it odd that the nominating committee is only 50 people.  Is that right? That seems very small. Doesn't the Oscars have hundreds of people who vote on who to nominate? 

 

Regarding the Victor/Victoria sets, having the design categories not be split between play/musical, makes a bit more sense why victor/victoria didn't get in. 

[ChorusKitty]

Posted: 4/21/23 at 1:19am

Chase Miller said: "I find it odd that the nominating committee is only 50 people. Is that right? That seems very small. Doesn't the Oscars have hundreds of people who vote on who to nominate?"
 

There are about 8500 members of the Academy (worldwide).  However, members nominate only those who are in the same field and Best Picture. In other words, costume designers only nominate fellow costume designers, and get to submit their preferences for Best Picture. And then there are select committes for categories like Foreign Language Film. After the nominations, voters may generally vote in all categories. (I believe they still require some type of verification that voters have seen all the nominees in certain categories, like Documentary, to vote in those categories.)

Additionally, DVD screeners go out to voters throughout the fall for consideration purposes. They do still have screenings for members in theaters, but not to the extent they used too. Members can also show their membership card and attend screenings for free at most theaters. And since a film can be run 4-6 times a day just on one screen, it's nothing like a small Broadway theater needing to accommodate a large (non-paying) audience with only 8 performances a week. 

 

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 4/21/23 at 2:28am

''Regarding the Victor/Victoria sets, having the design categories not be split between play/musical, makes a bit more sense why victor/victoria didn't get in.''

I looked up the 1996 Tonys to see the nominees for Best Set Design (''The King and I,'' ''A Delicate Balance,'' ''Seven Guitars,'' ''A Midsummer Night's Dream'' ) and Best Costume Design (''The King and I,'' ''A Delicate Balance,'' ''Buried Child,'' ''Bring in da' Noise'' ). ''The King and I'' was the favorite to win because of the opulence and striking look of the production. But I'm really baffled by the nominations for ''A Delicate Balance.'' Its set looked like a standard living room, and I once heard that the contemporary costumes (or some of them) were bought off the rack. To me, that can't compare to the various sets that Robin Wagner created to evoke 1930s Paris or Willa Kim's wonderfully colorful costumes in ''Victor/Victoria.'' (I'm also sorta surprised that ''Rent'' didn't score a costume nomination for its iconic look.)

I'm glad that the Tonys finally created separate design categories for musicals and plays in 2005, because musicals always had such a decided advantage: They generally feature many more sets and costumes. During the '90s, musicals won 9 of the 10 Tonys for set design and all 10 Tonys for costumes.

Updated On: 4/21/23 at 02:28 AM

[blaxx]

Posted: 4/21/23 at 2:33am

It's an awful show that's why. Beside Andrews, I'm glad no one back then felt the need to throw it a bone.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 4/21/23 at 2:55am

''Beside Andrews, I'm glad no one back then felt the need to throw it a bone''

For the record, ''Victor/Victoria'' did get some awards recognition elsewhere. Andrews won Best Actress in a Musical from both the Drama Desk and the Outer Critics Circle. Rachel York won the Drama Desk for Best Featured Actress in a Musical, and Robin Wagner was nominated for Best Scenic Design.

And the Outer Critics Circle named ''Victor/Victoria'' Best Broadway Musical. They chose ''Rent'' as Best Off-Broadway Musical over ''Bring in da' Noise.''

Updated On: 4/21/23 at 02:55 AM

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 4/21/23 at 5:53am

In hindsight, she should have stuck with the classic movie version instead of attempting it on Broadway.  The show had bad vibes throughout and seemed to start a litany of troubles for Dame Julie.  

[PennClassic]

Posted: 4/21/23 at 8:09am

I saw VICTOR/VICTORIA in Chicago during its tryout run.  I enjoyed the show very much plus I was delighted to see Julie Andrews perform in person.  She was wonderful.  It did go through various changes prior to Broadway, which is typical during a tryout period.  I remember being impressed with the overall look of the show (sets, lighting, costumes) and was surprised that they were ignored by the Tony voters.  I also thought that Rachel York did a great job.  She may have been considered "over-the-top" but that's the type of character Norma was.  

Perhaps the reason for its lack of Tony recognition was that Blake Edwards was considered "too Hollywood" and, therefore, was disregarded by the Broadway community and, in particular, the nominating committee.

Updated On: 5/4/23 at 08:09 AM