Changes in shows?- Page 2

[darquegk]

Posted: 1/2/21 at 1:18pm

Reefer Madness has been almost three substantially different shows: the early LA version, the substantially different Off-Broadway run, then a third definitive version incorporating elements of both stage versions and the movie.

Cabaret exists in four substantially different versions with major book and song-stack differences. Little Me has at least three major versions and a fourth version cobbled together from the three for an Australian production.

Every major production of Hair is also very different. Updated On: 1/2/21 at 01:18 PM

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 1/2/21 at 1:23pm

Let's also not forget The Scarlet Pimpernel, which went through two major revisions during its Broadway run, and then even more revisions when it went out on tour.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 1/2/21 at 1:30pm

Every Frank Wildhorn show has several different versions. I liked a lot of the changes in the Scarlet Pimpernel. Mostly the addition of “I’ll Forget You” but then the recent concert version reminded me how great “You Are My Home” is in that scene.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 1/2/21 at 1:33pm

CATSNYrevival said: "Every Frank Wildhorn show has several different versions. I liked a lot of the changes in the Scarlet Pimpernel. Mostly the addition of “I’ll Forget You” but then the recent concert version reminded me how great “You Are My Home” is in that scene."

Very true, though I think Pimpernel is the only one of his to have multiple versions all included as part of its original run on Broadway.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/2/21 at 1:47pm

The original HELLO, DOLLY! had a butterfly number in the Harmonia Gardens it was changed to a polka contest when Ginger Rogers replaced Channing. Also, "Dancing" always featured Minnie Fay (the role was originated by Sondra Lee who was an accomplished dancer). When Charlie Stemp took over the role of Barnaby in the revival, the number was re-staged to showcase his formidable skills as a dancer.

When Ethel Merman took over the role of Dolly, two numbers were added to the show.

Updated On: 1/2/21 at 01:47 PM

[NameGreg]

Posted: 1/2/21 at 4:02pm

I always thought it was pretty odd to showcase Barnaby during the polka given it’s Ambrose and Ermengarde who win it, especially since Barnaby already has more to do than either of them as it is.

It’s not really a problem since Charlie Stemp’s dancing is admittedly very impressive, but it is odd.

[darquegk]

Posted: 1/2/21 at 5:49pm

Reminds me of the Pittsburgh CLO production of "Grease" a few years back. They had a great dancer as Eugene the nerd, so they wound up staging "Born to Hand Jive" as Danny ultimately competing against him, with Eugene as the better dancer. The only reason he loses is because his moves got too risque for the 1950s.

[sparksatmidnight]

Posted: 1/2/21 at 6:28pm

Love that Frozen dropped the Love is an Open Door finale

[Boq101]

Posted: 1/3/21 at 8:24am

All of the changes made to Lippa's Wild Party for City Center Encores were just awful. It made no sense why he'd do it. The show has only reached cult status because of the CD. That songlist and the story told on that CD is what made that show fans. It also just seemed weird that every change managed to make his show more similar to the other adaptation by LaChiusa. 

[missthemountains]

Posted: 1/3/21 at 2:34pm

I think that the ending of Pippin with Theo singing Corner Of The Sky is completely baffling. The kid is literally a player, so he knows what happens at the end of the show, so why does he want to become Pippin? But also, it weirdly makes the ending about Theo, when it's a show about Pippin? I don't give a shi+ about Theo. I just spent roughly two hours of my time investing in Pippin. That being said, the original ending isn't perfect either. I know it's pretentious of me to argue otherwise, but I still don't think Pippin has found a perfect ending. 

I would also say that the current licensed verison of Rocky Horror is way lamer than the original. Like, exponentially lamer.

Agreed about what someone said about Merrily and Assassins earlier. The Sweeney Todd metaphor seems particularly on point. That being said, in the case of Merrily, I felt that the Roundabout revival was actually the perfect book.

[NameGreg]

Posted: 1/3/21 at 3:54pm

I wasn’t all that big on the revival’s new ending cause I thought it was out of character for Pippin and Catherine to just leave Theo like that, and I think the Leading Player coming out on top in the end greatly takes away from their breakdown just a few minutes before that.

I also found it strange how the recording of the original production changed the final line from “Trapped but happy” to just “Trapped”. Never understood why they did that, and I personally don’t like it.

I will defend Something Just Broke from Assassins, as when you’re tackling such a serious topic as presidential assassinations, I feel like you should show a different perspective than just the assassins to truly capture the scope of the tragedy. When the show premiered it wasn’t even three decades since JFK had died, and I’m sure many were insulted by it going right from depicting his death to the assassins’ own “happy” ending.

And the Sweeney Todd comparison is a bit flawed to me because we actually do get the viewpoint of victims near the end of that based on the big twist, which I won’t spoil even if it came out in the 70s.

[NOWaWarning]

Posted: 1/3/21 at 11:17pm

Follies has gone through several revisions over the years, both in book and score, but I think the original version is the best.

[blaxx]

Posted: 1/4/21 at 12:55am

NameGreg said: "I will defend Something Just Broke from Assassins, as when you’re tackling such a serious topic as presidential assassinations, I feel like you should show a different perspective than just the assassins to truly capture the scope of the tragedy. When the show premiered it wasn’t even three decades since JFK had died, and I’m sure many were insulted by it going right from depicting his death to the assassins’ own “happy” ending.

And the Sweeney Todd comparison is a bit flawed to me because we actually do get the viewpoint of victims near the end of that based on the big twist, which I won’t spoil even if it came out in the 70s."

But having the point of view of those who committed (or attempted to commit) the crime was the whole point of the musical. To me, Something Just Broke was included to give the show a PC ending that, as you mentioned, softens the blow. It saddens me because it's not about how we felt, but what the culprits went through. 

[ChairinMain]

Posted: 1/4/21 at 1:40am

NameGreg said: " Stony Durdles and Deputy Durdles are both suspects now, I think."

Interesting, I never heard about that at all. You gotta wonder what the odds of the deputy getting picked are, cause I imagine the already fairly minor role ofDurdles doesn’t get voted the killer too often. Granted, Durdles is at least a very funny part that a good actor can still make into a standout, but the deputy is little more than an ensemble member.

I always did find it a bit odd how the part is eligible for the lovers voting because of this, but I also recently discovered that the deputy was originally planned to have a solo number, same goes for Durdles and Crisparkle (his was to be a duet with Rosa), so maybe he was originally intended the deputy and the original non option Durdles were meant to be suspects from the start."

Durdles was made a candidate for Murderer starting with the first national tour. Deputy is not or has never been a murder suspect; he has always been a candidate for the lover position. Deputy is quite a small role but very easy to make a positive impact...in the original production he had some featured dance solos, and he is frequently played by a teenager, as he was in the last broadway revival. He is, in my experience, very frequently voted the lover; usually paired with puffer, which is of course one of the evening's more absurd pairings and thus very popular.

The songs you are referring to are, I think, songs that appear on an audio bootleg floating around from the show's developmental period. I've never been able to determine if this is a developmental reading or workshop of the musical, or an early rehearsal of the premiere production at the Public Theatre. In any event, the structure and tone of the musical got significantly altered from that reading. The script, at that time, was much less bawdy and overtly comedic, and was much more of a straight Dickens adaptation with a music hall framing device. It was also WAY longer; there are at least ten songs that didn't make it into the finished version.





NameGreg said: "darquegk said: " I also found it strange how the recording of the original production changed the final line from “Trapped but happy” to just “Trapped”. Never understood why they did that, and I personally don’t like it. "

That is one of a whole lot of changes Bob Fosse made to Roger Hirson's libretto... he wanted a more cynical ending. Schwartz and Hirson took a lot of his revisions out when they licensed the script. Updated On: 1/4/21 at 01:40 AM

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 1/4/21 at 6:49am

Any of the "new and improved" Cameron Mackintosh productions (Les Miserables, Miss Saigon, The Phantom of the Opera) that Laurence Connor directed all featured countless changes that I hated. I think his Phantom was the worst of the bunch, though.

[NameGreg]

Posted: 1/4/21 at 3:57pm

ChairinMain said: "NameGreg said: " Stony Durdles and Deputy Durdles are both suspects now, I think."

Interesting, I never heard about that at all. You gotta wonder what the odds of the deputy getting picked are, cause I imagine the already fairly minor role ofDurdles doesn’t get voted the killer too often. Granted, Durdles is at least a very funny part that a good actor can still make into a standout, but the deputy is little more than an ensemble member.

I always did find it a bit odd how the part is eligible for the lovers voting because of this, but I also recently discovered that the deputy was originally planned to have a solo number, same goes for Durdles and Crisparkle (his was to be a duet with Rosa), so maybe he was originally intended the deputy and the original non option Durdles were meant to be suspects from the start."


Durdles was made a candidate for Murderer starting with the first national tour. Deputy is not or has never been a murder suspect; he has always been a candidate for the lover position. Deputy is quite a small role but very easy to make a positive impact...in the original production he had some featured dance solos, and he is frequently played by a teenager, as he was in the last broadway revival. He is, in my experience, very frequently voted the lover; usually paired with puffer, which is of course one of the evening's more absurd pairings and thus very popular.

The songs you are referring to are, I think, songs that appear on an audio bootleg floating around from the show's developmental period. I've never been able to determine if this is a developmental reading or workshop of the musical, or an early rehearsal of the premiere production at the Public Theatre. In any event, the structure and tone of the musical got significantly altered from that reading. The script, at that time, was much less bawdy and overtly comedic, and was much more of a straight Dickens adaptation with a music hall framing device. It was also WAY longer; there are at least ten songs that didn't make it into the finished version.





NameGreg said: "darquegk said: " I also found it strange how the recording of the original production changed the final line from “Trapped but happy” to just “Trapped”. Never understood why they did that, and I personally don’t like it. "




That is one of a whole lot of changes Bob Fosse made to Roger Hirson's libretto... he wanted a more cynical ending. Schwartz and Hirson took a lot of his revisions out when they licensed the script. "

Yeah, I had always thought that Fosse was responsible for that, as he’s not exactly a sucker for happy endings. He probably would’ve liked the revival’s alteration since it’s even less happy.

[MattieIce2018]

Posted: 1/4/21 at 4:00pm

The other recent thread about this show reminded me that Seussical had huge rewrites before its national tour, mostly centered around making JoJo a character outside of the Who's world who is then pushed into the story by the Cat. There were quite a few rewrites, especially in the opening number, to support this change.

[IAmAnIslander2]

Posted: 1/5/21 at 5:45pm

MichelleCraig said: "I really disliked Ellen's new song in MISS SAIGON. To me, the original,"Now That I've Seen Her,"is far superior to "Maybe"..."

Yes! I saw Kerry Ellis play Ellen 15 years ago and "Now That I've Seen Her" was one of my favourites from the show. "Maybe" sucks.

When I saw the U.K. tour of Shrek I couldn't believe what they did to "I Know It's Today". They didn't want to bring a kid and teenager on a national tour so instead had Fiona sing the song herself with puppets like it was Avenue Q. I'm not kidding.

[Joshua Rosenthal]

Posted: 1/5/21 at 5:51pm

IAmAnIslander2 said: "MichelleCraig said: "I really disliked Ellen's new song in MISS SAIGON. To me, the original,"Now That I've Seen Her,"is far superior to "Maybe"..."

Yes! I saw Kerry Ellis play Ellen 15 years ago and "Now That I've Seen Her" was one of my favourites from the show."Maybe" sucks.

When I saw the U.K. tour of Shrek I couldn't believe what they did to "I Know It's Today". They didn't want to bring a kid and teenager on a national tour so instead had Fiona sing the song herself with puppets like it was Avenue Q. I'm not kidding."

That’s probably one of the saddest changes I’ve ever heard. I get that adding minors into productions can be more work, probably also for touring productions as well, but to just read a whole number I’m assuming are there any harmonies it’s just really sad especially since I find the harmonies towards and at  the very end of the song to be so amazing

[IAmAnIslander2]

Posted: 1/5/21 at 6:04pm

Joshua Rosenthal said: "IAmAnIslander2 said: "MichelleCraig said: "I really disliked Ellen's new song in MISS SAIGON. To me, the original,"Now That I've Seen Her,"is far superior to "Maybe"..."

Yes! I saw Kerry Ellis play Ellen 15 years ago and "Now That I've Seen Her" was one of my favourites from the show."Maybe" sucks.

When I saw the U.K. tour of Shrek I couldn't believe what they did to "I Know It's Today". They didn't want to bring a kid and teenager on a national tour so instead had Fiona sing the song herself with puppets like it was Avenue Q. I'm not kidding."

That’s probably one of the saddest changes I’ve ever heard. I get that adding minors into productions can be more work, probably also for touring productions as well, but to just read a whole number I’m assuming are there any harmonies it’s just really sad especially since I find the harmonies towards and at the very end of the song to be so amazing"

If I remember correctly she sang the song infront of a little wall which I guess was supposed to be her balcony and by the end of the song puppets pop up from behind the wall doing the harmonies. Not sure if they were pre-recorded or done by ensemble.members.

Also, the Magic Mirror and "Build a Wall" were cut entirely.

Updated On: 1/5/21 at 06:04 PM

[MattieIce2018]

Posted: 1/5/21 at 6:21pm

The Magic Mirror isn't in any version of Shrek anymore, to my knowledge. I know it's not in the licensed script that MTI sends out and I believe it was cut right after Broadway to make the tour cheaper to travel.

[darquegk]

Posted: 1/5/21 at 7:10pm

When Pinocchio’s part was beefed up a bit out of town, the conceit of “John Tartaglia as five funny characters” became increasingly less of a sell. So most of his characters were cut outright- Magic Mirror, the village idiot in Duloc, and I believe one other appearance of his was simply rewritten to be as Pinocchio instead of someone else.

[NameGreg]

Posted: 1/5/21 at 7:23pm

I actually had a very good time at the recent revival of Kiss Me Kate, but I think the alterations that they made were unnecessary as it’s really not a very dated show. The spanking scene is certainly risqué, but I don’t think it’s sexist since the Lilli beats the **** out of Fred right before it happens. And even then, it’s just weird to have the most famous scene in the musical completely removed.

I thought the production’s strengths made up for the edits, but I also believe when you’re doing a show, even if you think it’s dated, if you’re not attempting some kind of major overhaul or reimagining, then you should just fully commit to the material and not awkwardly just slightly change it, cause then there’s the question of why you’re doing it in the first place.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 1/5/21 at 7:34pm

Re: Pippin...

The players are not, and never have been, some real life troupe. This isn't the Pandemonium Shadow Show (although Ray Bradbury’s take on this story would be very interesting), or some medieval Manson family taking in young men and murdering them. The players are in Pippin's mind, a fever dream, a hallucination, a figment of his imagination, just as we all have those internalized voices that tell us we're not good enough, rich enough, beautiful enough, etc., and that we have to make our goals conform to the shallow and misplaced goals we see touted by the media and our so-called societal leaders ("Why, we're right inside your heads" is the clue).

The whole show, up to the ending, has essentially been Pippin with a (metaphorical and literal) gun to his head, considering what led him here through a suicidal lens. That's why his family is populated by perverse stereotypes and his fantasies filled with frightening characters of his own creation, why he seemingly fails at everything throughout the show. He is building up the stones to step into that box and light himself on fire (or, if you subscribe to the Diane Paulus approach, "leap from the highest height into the hottest fire") by convincing himself life was worthless, but this is how to solve it.

Just one problem... he couldn't hide from himself that he was good at something. With time and effort applied, not striving to be stupendous but just to do what he could, he (eventually) rose to the occasion as a lover and a father. When Catherine and Theo break ranks with the troupe, they're not fed up with being the lure. It means Pippin is realizing that, oh crap, now he has someone... something... to live for. So he'll never be a war hero or successful politician or something "extraordinary"; life will never be a carefree romp. Maybe an average life is all that he really needs to be good at. Maybe that's his "corner of the sky."

Which leaves us at the end, and we have two ways to play that. (Well, one, because Schwartz only allows the new ending to be licensed, but two endings exist at least.)

Ending #1: After the Players all leave, Catherine asks Pippin: does he think he's a coward and a compromiser, like they said? No. Then how does he feel? Pippin's original reply, the line that got licensed after Dramatists Guild arbitration, was "Trapped... but happy. Which isn't too bad for the end of a musical comedy. Ta-da!"

Fosse thought "but happy" was a cop out. After all, Pippin can't yet be sure his decision was the right one. He hopes it will be, but no one in that situation goes from having no idea what they want to knowing exactly what they want in only a few minutes. Pippin has made a choice, but he's still scared. He knows that he has given up some of his ideals and he must accept compromises for the first time. So Fosse cut "...but happy," much to Schwartz's chagrin. Still, John Rubinstein figured out how to play it in a way that fit, something not too many other actors (cough cough Greatest American Hero cough) pulled off successfully:

"Trapped..." (waits for applause to die down, then looks from Catherine to Theo and smiles; as if genuinely discovering this fact:) "Which isn't too bad..." (lets this sink in for a beat, allowing the audience a moment to absorb that "trapped" as it's used here might not honestly be an all-bad thing; then, with a smile, appending Fosse's wry button:) "...for the end of a musical comedy." (and then, before the audience can decide if that button undercut the previous one's earnestness:) "Ta-da!"

Enough of both Fosse and Schwartz about it to (theoretically) appease either side.

Ending #2: Well, this relies on casting Theo as a surly teenager, someone not too far removed from where Pippin is at the beginning of the show, as Schwartz now prefers it. Much simpler here: it's one thing that Pippin made it through to the other side; problem is, he can't protect Theo from the same journey.

And yes, I believe it is the same journey. We create outrageous expectations for our young people and then sabotage their chances at attaining them, asking them to grow up faster with each generation, coming of age and rites of passage be damned. We rarely offer them role models and guidelines, and we destroy the ones they have. We tell them they can have anything they want, but it’s not true. And we wonder why hopelessness among young people is more and more prevalent, why murder and suicide among teenagers continues to increase. To some, when everything else is trashed, all that's left is the Grand Finale.

But Pippin has an answer: Look, you don't have to be extraordinary. It's unrealistic anyway. You don't have to reach the pinnacle to be a person of worth. Sometimes succeeding at average, ordinary, everyday life is enough. And you don't have to follow all the rules and get everything "right" to do that.

Updated On: 1/5/21 at 07:34 PM

[NoName3]

Posted: 1/5/21 at 9:56pm

I can't believe no one has mentioned the major, sometimes massive, changes made to productions of Show Boat, Candide,  Camelot and Annie Get Your Gun over the years.  Sometimes the changes involved going back to the original versions and reinstating previously cut material.  If I started going into details, I'd be typing all night. 

But as a brief example,  AGYG exists in three major versions, the original, the first Lincoln Center revival and Bernadette's version.  Each made substantial changes to both the script and the score.

And there are so many others.  The Gay Life had a major framing device cut after the NY opening which led to the loss of a song and a character.

 

Updated On: 1/6/21 at 09:56 PM