Bootlegs during Quarantine- Page 5

mikey2573
Broadway Legend
joined:12/28/10
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12/28/10
Bootlegs during Quarantine#101
Posted: 5/3/20 at 2:38am

Instead of arguing about whether bootlegs are right or wrong, let's change where this thread has been going (which is the same place every other bootleg thread ends up going) and talk about our FAVORITE bootleg. 

Audio: The  bootleg of the original cast of CAMELOT; R. Burton, J, Andrews, R. Goulet, R. McDowell.  I am just grateful that someone back in the early 60s brought what was probably a big clunky tape recorder into the theater to make this recording. 

Video: Peter Pan with Sandy Duncan.  Again, in the early 80s video cameras were huge so kudos to whoever brought this camera into the theater to record this.  It's not the greatest image but it was my very first Broadway show, so I love that this exists. 

 

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KJ4
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joined:4/15/20
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#102
Posted: 5/3/20 at 10:14am

By just talking about which bootleg is good or bad is equally support the process of destroying BW situation. Some people are just that ignorance.

Updated On: 5/3/20 at 10:14 AM
trpguyy
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joined:2/25/05
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#103
Posted: 5/3/20 at 10:32am

Tapping23 said: "trpguyy said: "darquegk said: "The prevalence of bootlegs, and their increased acceptance during the 2020 quarantine, will undoubtedly be seen as incentive to record more shows and to preemptively negotiate contracts that would allow this in the future. "

The existing Broadway contracts already allow for the recording of shows, but producers don’t want to spend money that they know they won’t recoup.
"

That is not completely true. They include permission for an archival copy And even that has a ton of rules. For a show to be broadcast SAG or AFTRA have jurisdiction. These contracts and deals are incredibly detailed and specific making them a huge headache.The entire reason some of the biggest shows broadcast are from the West End is because they don’t have the same union rules as we do here.
"

I believe we’re saying the same thing. There is an existing system in which Broadway producers can record their shows and release it commercially. They don’t have the reinvent the wheel - they just have to pay for it, which they are not willing to do because they will lose money. 

hearthemsing22
Featured Actor
joined:2/14/20
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#104
Posted: 5/3/20 at 12:06pm

When Broadway reopens I hope people actually take the no recording rule seriously. Broadway will have an incredibly difficult time financially after this, so if you record shows, you actually are now stealing from them. I don't care where you're from or how old you are-being healthy and safe is way more important than your need to see a show RIGHT NOW. You'll survive. Let the shows come back and be strong, don't steal from them. I hope people realize this. 

Joshua Rosenthal
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joined:8/13/17
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#105
Posted: 5/3/20 at 11:52pm

TheatreFan4 said: "Hey, that's great but a lot of shows die on the vine and are never heard from again despite how good they might be. Bootlegs help to fill that gap in a way. Do you think Carrie ever would have had the continued cult status it did if the bootlegs didn't exist? And in the last decade with the rework brought about from that cult status it's become a regional staple.

It's not about entitlement, it's about reality. A lot of shows can barely afford making their week to week so people pick up the slack. It's not a negative against the show's grosses and if you do it discreetly have at it. Most of the people who do it obnoxiously aren't doing it to keep the show and performances out there, but for their own personal recollection and have no clue what the hell they're doing...
"

You got a point; especially since there a good amounf of Carrie musical bootlegs, both from the 2012 revival, and especially from the 1988 Stratford tryouts and the infamous Broadway run itself, including a full-length recording and soundboard ones as well

A Potter Line
Swing
joined:5/4/20
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#106
Posted: 5/4/20 at 5:01am
I say let us watch them!!
Islander_fan
Broadway Star
joined:6/25/14
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#107
Posted: 5/4/20 at 11:34am

A couple of things. The whole notion that if one actor is in favor of them and another one isn't, how the hell does that one person speak for the views of the entire community of actors on Broadway. If we as theatre fans can have varying opinions, why do some thing it's all or nothing regarding performers? 

Also, just an observation I have made. Many of the people I have seen requesting bootlegs are on the younger side of things. Either they are hardcore intense theatre fans who are unable to afford to go who feel that, as a result they need to see a given show, or those who are hardcore theatre fans that don't live in NYC area who feel the sam thing for the same reason. But, they add to it the reason I just mentioned that they aren't from NY. I amend what I said earlier about strongly being against them to not really caring one way or the other. It's this feeling among theatre fans that they have to see a given show. That's something I can't wrap my head around. 

There are a lot of bands that I like, that come through NYC every summer and I always look forward to it. Yet, many of the bands posted on social media that they are making the decision to cancel their summer tours because of COVID-19. Almost all of the acts I was looking forward to, posted on Facebook that, because of social distancing and wanting to keep everyone safe, they have canceled their summer tours. All of the comments were beyond positive and understanding, and agreeing with the band's choice. Yet, when it comes to Broadway, there are way too many people, some are fans that boarder on over the top, who are complaining that they can't see a show on Broadway. Just can't figure out why with one form of entertainment, fans are very much ok with canceling. Yet, people have this need to see a show.

broadwayguy2
Broadway Legend
joined:5/18/03
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#108
Posted: 5/4/20 at 12:58pm

Lord forgive me for what I am about to say.

I am NOT going to jump on one side of the fence or another here. Just not here for that disaster. Goodness knows I have my own thoughts and feelings.

What I WILL say say is that this conversation defaults too fast and hard to grandstanding on either side of the matter with absolute refusal to listen. That does not bode well for anyone. Ever.

My observation on the matter will be simple and few. Anyone with the knowledge to seek out a bootleg of a show and with the ability to get to a live performance of the show WILL be attending a live performance of that show, whether or not they have access to the bootleg. And while not about bootlegs, the President of Actors Equity has stated as recently as last week in public that contrary to old ideas of theatre business, evidence HAS show very strongly that video recordings of live shows actually encourage ticket sales to the live performances and other productions - commercial Broadway producers seem to one of the few hold outs on admitting that fact.

That said, the idea of 'stealing' is generally not framed very accurately... setting ALL moral opinion on bootlegs themselves aside, there is DECIDEDLY a difference between hardcore fans sharing and trading copies of a show and someone who bootlegs a show and sells copies for profit and gain and those things should be judged wholly separately.

As far as the act goes, something that actively disrupts other audience members or the actors is different than something discreet or something that bothers YOU because you have you strong opinion. Not saying HOW you should feel about it or how you should respond, but the matters are different... and that also determines how the production staff responds to individual incidents. Trust.

And also, you enter an entirely different realm when you start discussing shows that have actor nudity...

VintageSnarker
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joined:1/30/15
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#109
Posted: 5/4/20 at 4:27pm

The argument that makes me roll my eyes the most from young people who think they're entitled to see shows and that someone is infringing on their rights because ticket costs are too high and Broadway shows are located in New York. Like, give me a break. I'm relatively sympathetic to leftist politics but access to theater is not the same as access to healthcare or a livable wage or affordable education. When I was younger, I went to the library and checked out cast albums and relevant books. Now, there's Spotify and, because of self-quarantine, too much content. There are ways of appreciating shows beyond seeing them in person. No one is oppressing you because you can't get to New York/afford a ticket. You can see a touring or amateur production. 

Islander_fan
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joined:6/25/14
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#110
Posted: 5/5/20 at 1:17am

Vintage Snarker, THANK YOU! You're right on target. 

And, what scares me the most is that roughly ten years ago, when I was around there age, there was something important about theatre that I discovered on my own. I can't afford to see everything I want that's playing on Broadway. And, that means that I miss shows I really wanted to see. But, I lived. And, I'm local, it wasn't like I had to travel to the city to see a show. But, it feels as if you tell a young theatre fan to get a summer or after school job, that way they could afford to save and get ticket, they get upset because that's not what they want to hear. College aged kids who feel that they shouldn't have to work to get a ticket and despite the idea of finding a job, working, and using what they earned to see a show .

Updated On: 5/5/20 at 01:17 AM
hearthemsing22
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joined:2/14/20
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#111
Posted: 5/5/20 at 3:42am

Islander_fan said: "Vintage Snarker, THANK YOU! You're right on target.

And, what scares me the most is that roughly ten years ago, when I was around there age, there was something important about theatre that I discovered on my own. I can't afford to see everything I want that's playing on Broadway. And, that means that I miss shows I really wanted to see. But, I lived. And, I'm local, it wasn't like I had to travel to the city to see a show. But, it feels as if you tell a young theatre fan to get a summer or after school job, that way they could afford to save and get ticket, they get upset because that's not what they want to hear. College aged kids who feel that they shouldn't have to work to get a ticket and despite the idea of finding a job, working, and using what they earned to see a show .
"

No lie, I literally had to check to see if I wrote what you did because that’s EXACTLY how I feel!! People who are younger Broadway fans are so used to getting content when they want it, and they almost seem to expect that someone will be willing to record anything for them. I am aware that bootlegs/recordings of shows go back years, but that doesn’t mean they’re okay. All of these fans are doing just fine without bootlegs. We will survive. 
 

also...Stealing: the act of taking something without permission. When you record, you are illegally capturing actors performances, lighting design, costume designs, direction...roll your eyes and act superior alll you want but it’s true. Actors calling out people filming have even said that. 

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CT2NYC
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#112
Posted: 5/5/20 at 7:45pm

The back-and-forth on this thread is getting tiresome. No one is questioning the legality of bootlegs. Technically, they're illegal, but, obviously, just watching them isn't, and their impact on a show's ticket sales is likely negligible. The question was about whether or not quarantine is a good enough reason to watch them, even though you haven't in the past. What it comes down to is that most people who watch bootlegs simply find them online, on YouTube or Reddit, for example. There's no buying, trading, selling, or downloading going on. On YouTube, there are tons of bootlegs available, and many of them have been up for YEARS. So, if someone comes across a show on YouTube, why should they abstain on principle alone? If the copyright holder doesn't care enough to have it taken down, why should they? 

Updated On: 5/5/20 at 07:45 PM
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VotePeron
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#113
Posted: 5/5/20 at 11:25pm

Islander_fan said: "A couple of things. The whole notion that if one actor is in favor of them and another one isn't, how the hell does that one person speak for the views of the entire community of actors on Broadway. If we as theatre fans can have varying opinions, why do some thing it's all or nothing regarding performers?

Because one performer posting a bootleg will get 10x the exposure of 4 performers tweeting against them. Not to mention the act of perpetuating bootlegs. You can’t tell me that performers posting bootlegs don’t have a significantly larger impact on the matter than those who don’t. 
 

Listen, I’m not against them. I mean, the hundreds of Beetlejuice bootleg TikToks, which the show basically invited fans to do as a method of staying alive, is a bit excessive. 

Islander_fan
Broadway Star
joined:6/25/14
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#114
Posted: 5/7/20 at 1:00am

VotePeron said: "Islander_fan said: "A couple of things. The whole notion that if one actor is in favor of them and another one isn't, how the hell does that one person speak for the views of the entire community of actors on Broadway. If we as theatre fans can have varying opinions, why do some thing it's all or nothing regarding performers?

Because one performer posting a bootleg will get 10x the exposure of 4 performers tweeting against them. Not to mention the act of perpetuating bootlegs. You can’t tell me that performers posting bootlegs don’t have a significantly larger impact on the matter than those who don’t.
 

Listen, I’m not against them. I mean, the hundreds of Beetlejuice bootleg TikToks, which the show basically invited fans to do as a method of staying alive, is a bit excessive."

I feel that I can say that. Especially since there are actors out there who watch bootlegs of their own work sometimes. I mean, sure, actors are entitled to have an opinion on the matter. We all are. But, I honestly think that the only groups of people who know, and have their own view on the subject are those who are either strong theatre fans or this who work on Broadway in one way or another. That being said, since we all know that they are out there, and we do know that there are some who act on Broadway who find them to see their own work, I can't see the difference between actors asking for/ watching them vs a theatre fan doing the same. There is, to me, no different between say, me asking for one or for Renee Rapp and Karen Olivo to go onto their social media accounts and ask fans to send them video of their respective performances. They are just people and to say that what they do matters more is to put them up on a pedestal. 

Look, personally, I don't have a strong view one way or the other. I mean, I never could wrap my head around why people do it. But, at the end of the day, I see no difference between actors watching and looking for them, and fans doin the same. 

Fosse76
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joined:3/21/05
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#115
Posted: 5/7/20 at 5:24am

hearthemsing22 said: "also...Stealing: the act of taking something without permission. When you record, you are illegally capturing actors performances, lighting design, costume designs, direction...roll your eyes and act superior alll you want but it’s true. Actors calling out people filming have even said that."

Go to law school and you'll know why what you've said here isn't even remotely true. Copyright infringement is not theft or stealing in any way, shape, or form. And creating a bootleg is copyright infringement. And point of fact, owning or even buying a bootleg is not illegal (making and selling/distributing is, though). 

Zion24
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joined:3/27/19
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#116
Posted: 5/7/20 at 11:33am

Bootlegging a Broadway show is copyright infringement ? Well, now we know someone else who didnt go to law school. Bootlegging may be wrong for a number of reasons, but you aren't copying someone else's work and passing it off as your own when you film something you are not supposed to. Id be very curious to see any legal precedent for that...

hearthemsing22
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joined:2/14/20
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#117
Posted: 5/7/20 at 1:14pm

CT2NYC said: "The back-and-forth on this thread is getting tiresome. No one is questioning the legality of bootlegs. Technically, they're illegal, but, obviously, just watching them isn't, and their impact on a show's ticket sales is likely negligible. The question was about whether or notquarantine is a good enough reason to watch them, even though you haven't in the past. What it comes down to is that most people who watch bootlegs simply find them online, onYouTube or Reddit, for example. There's no buying, trading, selling, or downloadinggoing on. On YouTube, there are tons of bootlegs available, and many of them have been up for YEARS. So, if someone comes acrossa show on YouTube,why should they abstain on principle alone? If the copyright holder doesn't care enough to have it taken down, why should they?"

There are people who are quote unquote "Masters". They have a collection of bootlegs and they either sometimes sell them, trade, or they hold on to them and (I don't truly understand, but I'll give it a shot) they get to decide if they make it available, who they give them to, etc. There is an entire bootleg culture that both infuriates me and confuses me. 

hearthemsing22
Featured Actor
joined:2/14/20
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#118
Posted: 5/7/20 at 1:20pm

Fosse76 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "also...Stealing: the act of taking something without permission. When you record, you are illegally capturing actors performances, lighting design, costume designs, direction...roll your eyes and act superior alll you want but it’s true. Actors calling out people filming have even said that."

Go to law school and you'll know why what you've said here isn't even remotely true. Copyright infringement is not theft or stealing in any way, shape, or form. And creating a bootleg is copyright infringement. And point of fact, owning or even buying a bootleg is not illegal (making and selling/distributingis, though).
"

Stealing (according to Google's definition): take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it. 

You're telling me that recording a production doesn't remotely relate to this? We're talking about recording peoples set designs, costume designs, lighting designs. No one asks for permission to do these things. No one in the audience has the legal right to do so. No one who records the bootlegs intends on returning them. So yes, in a broad sense of the word, they are stealing. This word has been used by actors when talking about people recording their shows. Get off your high horse already. 

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CT2NYC
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joined:3/7/17
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#119
Posted: 5/7/20 at 1:26pm

hearthemsing22 said: "CT2NYC said: "The back-and-forth on this thread is getting tiresome. No one is questioning the legality of bootlegs. Technically, they're illegal, but, obviously, just watching them isn't, and their impact on a show's ticket sales is likely negligible. The question was about whether or notquarantine is a good enough reason to watch them, even though you haven't in the past. What it comes down to is that most people who watch bootlegs simply find them online, onYouTube or Reddit, for example. There's no buying, trading, selling, or downloadinggoing on. On YouTube, there are tons of bootlegs available, and many of them have been up for YEARS. So, if someone comes acrossa show on YouTube,why should they abstain on principle alone? If the copyright holder doesn't care enough to have it taken down, why should they?"

There are people who are quote unquote "Masters". They have a collection of bootlegs and they either sometimes sell them, trade, or they hold on to them and (I don't truly understand, but I'll give it a shot) they get to decide if they make it available, who they give them to, etc. There is an entire bootleg culture that both infuriates me and confuses me.
"

Why are you talking about "bootleg culture?" Clearly, I was talking about the average person, like myself, who comes across bootlegs on YouTube, for example. If you can give me a reason why I shouldn't watch them, I'd love to hear it.

hearthemsing22
Featured Actor
joined:2/14/20
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#120
Posted: 5/7/20 at 1:31pm

CT2NYC said: "hearthemsing22 said: "CT2NYC said: "The back-and-forth on this thread is getting tiresome. No one is questioning the legality of bootlegs. Technically, they're illegal, but, obviously, just watching them isn't, and their impact on a show's ticket sales is likely negligible. The question was about whether or notquarantine is a good enough reason to watch them, even though you haven't in the past. What it comes down to is that most people who watch bootlegs simply find them online, onYouTube or Reddit, for example. There's no buying, trading, selling, or downloadinggoing on. On YouTube, there are tons of bootlegs available, and many of them have been up for YEARS. So, if someone comes acrossa show on YouTube,why should they abstain on principle alone? If the copyright holder doesn't care enough to have it taken down, why should they?"

There are people who are quote unquote "Masters". They have a collection of bootlegs and they either sometimes sell them, trade, or they hold on to them and (I don't truly understand, but I'll give it a shot) they get to decide if they make it available, who they give them to, etc. There is an entire bootleg culture that both infuriates me and confuses me.
"

Why are you talking about "bootleg culture?" Clearly, I was talking about the average person, like myself, who comes across bootlegs on YouTube, for example. If you can give me a reason why I shouldn't watch them, I'd love to hear it.
"

Erg sorry. Okay here's what I'm trying (and obviously failing) to say...I think it's perfectly fine to watch bootlegs. What really gets me is people who say that they're entitled to bootlegs, don't see a problem with people filming, ask people to film them, think they're entitled to a recording of any performance just because they can't be there. Go back to what VintageSnarker said. I think that sums up perfectly what I'm trying to say. 

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CT2NYC
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#121
Posted: 5/7/20 at 1:53pm

hearthemsing22 said: "CT2NYC said: "hearthemsing22 said: "CT2NYC said: "The back-and-forth on this thread is getting tiresome. No one is questioning the legality of bootlegs. Technically, they're illegal, but, obviously, just watching them isn't, and their impact on a show's ticket sales is likely negligible. The question was about whether or notquarantine is a good enough reason to watch them, even though you haven't in the past. What it comes down to is that most people who watch bootlegs simply find them online, onYouTube or Reddit, for example. There's no buying, trading, selling, or downloadinggoing on. On YouTube, there are tons of bootlegs available, and many of them have been up for YEARS. So, if someone comes acrossa show on YouTube,why should they abstain on principle alone? If the copyright holder doesn't care enough to have it taken down, why should they?"

There are people who are quote unquote "Masters". They have a collection of bootlegs and they either sometimes sell them, trade, or they hold on to them and (I don't truly understand, but I'll give it a shot) they get to decide if they make it available, who they give them to, etc. There is an entire bootleg culture that both infuriates me and confuses me.
"

Why are you talking about "bootleg culture?" Clearly, I was talking about the average person, like myself, who comes across bootlegs on YouTube, for example. If you can give me a reason why I shouldn't watch them, I'd love to hear it.
"

Erg sorry. Okay here's what I'm trying (and obviously failing) to say...I think it's perfectly fine to watch bootlegs. What really gets me is people who say that they're entitled to bootlegs, don't see a problem with people filming, ask people to film them, think they're entitled to a recording of any performance just because they can't be there. Go back to what VintageSnarker said. I think that sums up perfectly what I'm trying to say.
"

If you think watching them is perfectly fine, then why are you arguing? I believe that most of the people on this board don't think they're entitled to bootlegs, so I think you're directing your aggravation at the wrong audience. The "bootleg culture" you mentioned lives on Reddit, not here. It's a crazy time right now, so, rather than getting whipped up into a frenzy over it, just relax and watch a bootleg. There have been some good ones on YouTube recently. 

hearthemsing22
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joined:2/14/20
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#122
Posted: 5/7/20 at 10:20pm

CT2NYC said: "hearthemsing22 said: "CT2NYC said: "hearthemsing22 said: "CT2NYC said: "The back-and-forth on this thread is getting tiresome. No one is questioning the legality of bootlegs. Technically, they're illegal, but, obviously, just watching them isn't, and their impact on a show's ticket sales is likely negligible. The question was about whether or notquarantine is a good enough reason to watch them, even though you haven't in the past. What it comes down to is that most people who watch bootlegs simply find them online, onYouTube or Reddit, for example. There's no buying, trading, selling, or downloadinggoing on. On YouTube, there are tons of bootlegs available, and many of them have been up for YEARS. So, if someone comes acrossa show on YouTube,why should they abstain on principle alone? If the copyright holder doesn't care enough to have it taken down, why should they?"

There are people who are quote unquote "Masters". They have a collection of bootlegs and they either sometimes sell them, trade, or they hold on to them and (I don't truly understand, but I'll give it a shot) they get to decide if they make it available, who they give them to, etc. There is an entire bootleg culture that both infuriates me and confuses me.
"

Why are you talking about "bootleg culture?" Clearly, I was talking about the average person, like myself, who comes across bootlegs on YouTube, for example. If you can give me a reason why I shouldn't watch them, I'd love to hear it.
"

Erg sorry. Okay here's what I'm trying (and obviously failing) to say...I think it's perfectly fine to watch bootlegs. What really gets me is people who say that they're entitled to bootlegs, don't see a problem with people filming, ask people to film them, think they're entitled to a recording of any performance just because they can't be there. Go back to what VintageSnarker said. I think that sums up perfectly what I'm trying to say.
"

If you think watching them is perfectly fine, then why are you arguing? I believethat most of the people on this board don't think they're entitled to bootlegs, so I think you're directing your aggravation at the wrong audience. The "bootleg culture" you mentioned lives on Reddit, not here.It's a crazy time right now, so, rather than getting whipped up into a frenzy over it, just relax and watch a bootleg. There have been some good ones on YouTube recently."

Why do you assume that I've been watching them? Never assume. I've been way too preoccupied with streaming websites and Netfflix to look at bootlegs. But thanks. You go ahead. I'll stick with comfort TV shows/movies. 

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CT2NYC
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#123
Posted: 5/7/20 at 10:33pm

hearthemsing22 said: 

"Why do you assume that I've been watching them? Never assume. I've been way too preoccupied with streaming websites and Netfflix to look at bootlegs. But thanks. You go ahead. I'll stick with comfort TV shows/movies."

You missed my point. I'm just going to put you on ignore, so I don't feel the need to respond to your posts. 

WineDrunkBroadway92
Swing
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#124
Posted: 5/7/20 at 11:17pm

Look, I come from the point of view that bootlegs should be used as an educational tool and not as the main form of entertainment. If I lived in NYC, or had the means to afford every touring show that came through my city, I would do so. But I don't always have the money for it. And I only watch bootlegs of shows when they are no longer appearing on Broadway or on the tour circuit. However, I think that bootlegs, for the most part, are consumed in a healthy way to either gather interest about a show and convince people that they need to see the production in one way or another, or they provide a way for directors, actors, tech crew, etc, to gain understanding about how certain aspects of a show worked on Broadway or in other professional settings. 

 

I also wish that Broadway and the National Archives would release older recordings for purchase because I think they would make a lot of money that way. I have paid every time a recording has come to theaters, and then I pay for the DVD's, streaming, etc, because that is worth it to me. I would still KILL to see performances live, but not everyone has the means to do so. 

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VotePeron
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Bootlegs during Quarantine#125
Posted: 5/20/20 at 10:17am

The bootleg discussion took a sharp and very prominent turn yesterday on Twitter/Instagram. Won't mention much because I'm not looking to get banned just for free speech, but after the Frozen company spread a clip of the final minute of the show shot from the mezzanine, people seem more divided and vocal than ever about the morality/ethics of it.

Thoughts?