MODERATORS: Why was the Ben Vereen thread deleted?

[JBroadway]

Posted: 9/4/19 at 1:27am

I am not someone who has been very vocal in all of controversies on this board surrounding posts getting censored. Generally, I haven't gotten worked up about it, even during the debates around [a particular actor in a Disney show who shall not be named]. I sort of figure it's your right to enforce your own site's rules, and even when I don't agree: c'est la vie. 

But I have to ask about this Ben Vereen thread.

First I'll say that there was a large time gap between when I last checked the thread (around 2pm?), and when I noticed it was deleted (just a few minutes ago). So if I missed a crucial turn in the conversation during that gap, then I apologize in advance for this post being irrelevant and uninformed. 

But if your objections were simply to the fact that we were discussing sexual assault allegations of two well-known people in the industry, I have to object. These allegations are on record on news sites, and have been discussed on this board before without having threads deleted. I understand that you wouldn't want people on this board throwing around loose and baseless defamatory statements. But when there have been articles written about a person's misconduct, doesn't that give us the freedom to discuss it on this board without violating the "personal attacks" rule? 

Also, I think your deleting of the thread left a particularly bad taste in my mouth given the actual sentiments expressed within it. I, and a few others, were lamenting the fact that the entire Broadway community has collectively chosen to ignore the allegations against these two individuals, and that it seems to have been brushed under the rug - despite the fact that the Broadway community claims to be so progressive and just. 

So by deleting the thread, you have become part of the problem. 

EDIT: Also, I would like to point out that I have deliberately worded this post in such a way that I am not directly accusing any specific individual of anything. You'll notice that I used Ben Vereen's name only as a means of identifying which thread from earlier I am referring to. I did this so that you won't delete this post, and instead you will hopefully give me a straightforward response. 

Updated On: 9/4/19 at 01:27 AM

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 9/4/19 at 1:44am

Honestly this whole site has turned. Just look at the grosses thread.

[Rainah]

Posted: 9/4/19 at 2:00am

It was, as of the last time I read it, a pretty darn civil thread considering the subject matter. But it was a thread that was critical to industry people and the industry itself, I guess. Bad look for the site.

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 9/4/19 at 2:50am

SouthernCakes said: "Honestly this whole site has turned. Just look at the grosses thread."

So you're saying the site turned and it feels very, very different than the site you joined *checks notes* 5 weeks ago? Interesting perspective.

[ukpuppetboy]

Posted: 9/4/19 at 3:28am

Deleting the thread seems entirely consistent with the reaction of the Theater Community as a whole - to ignore the allegations and continue to celebrate the accused until it becomes impossible to do so in the face of insurmountable evidence.  

[EllieRose2]

Posted: 9/4/19 at 3:56am

It was most likely deleted because three very high profile men in the theater community were mentioned in a very negative light. Someone in the industry wasn't having it, and contacted the mods.  There was no warning of any kind, it was simply deleted without explanation. I would like to know how the mods gauge what threads get locked and which ones get deleted?

[Alexander Lamar]

Posted: 9/4/19 at 6:28am

The censorship has really gotten out of hands here, but I really really don’t like ATC. Are there any other Broadway focused message boards anyone frequents?

[#1Elphie]

Posted: 9/4/19 at 7:20am

Is this the thread? (I missed it the first time around, but it's easy to find cached versions of deleted threads.) If so, I agree that there's nothing that warrants its removal. BWW has published an article about the topic that was brought up! The discussion was civil, and no one was throwing around accusations. I agree that the censorship here has gone too far (it went in that direction a long time ago). Alexander Lamar, in the past comments about other Broadway message boards have even been deleted. 

Updated On: 9/4/19 at 07:20 AM

[TheSassySam]

Posted: 9/4/19 at 7:33am

Alexander Lamar said: "The censorship has really gotten out of hands here, but I really really don’t like ATC. Are there any other Broadway focused message boards anyone frequents?"

I originally tried to discuss Broadway on reddit. But the discussions there are pretty quiet. 

[Fan123]

Posted: 9/4/19 at 7:45am

This does seem strange if it's true. Erasing a civilised discussion of sexual harassment allegations and industry complicity in this day and age? I too would like to hear the reasoning behind that, and why the entire thread was removed rather than just certain posts if there were any specific issues there. Or do we all need to start subscribing to any threads which seem even slightly 'controversial', so that we can at least get a copy of new posts' content emailed to ourselves, and can judge for ourselves what to think if a thread gets deleted?

[Moderator]

Posted: 9/4/19 at 9:12am

Our policy on these matters has always been that discussing published reports is completely acceptable. However, unpublished gossip and accusations are not permitted on the board. If someone has first-hand information in cases like these, we are happy to help individuals contact journalists who will be able to investigate and potentially report on those circumstances. 

If you would like to explore that option, you are welcome to PM or email (moderator[at]broadwayworld[dot]com) us. But, discussing rumors and hearsay is not permitted, and will be deleted. This is simply not an appropriate forum to handle those types of discussions. 

If you have further questions. You are welcome to send us a message, and we will gladly discuss them. If you would like to start a new thread for these types of issues, we welcome those conversations, as long as they stick to the legitimately reported, researched, and investigated cases that have been published by established media outlets. 

I hope that reiterates our positions on these types of cases.