Is Tootsie Closing Next?- Page 6

[magictodo123]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 7:32am

What also really gets me is how the people attacking me and calling me transphobic for seeing the show were also people who are looking forward to Mrs. Doubtfire. It just confuses me. Yes, I know Daniel Hillard has more redeeming qualities than Michael Dorsey, but it's still the same "man dresses as  a woman and takes a job from someone" idea. Also, was Michael's friend really a good actress? Did she deserve it more than the character Michael created? A lot of people also don't think it's creepy that Daniel dressed as a woman to get closer to his kids, but...I have to disagree?? I did like Mrs. Doubtfire more than Tootsie, but isn't it still wrong?? I just don't understand. But as people have previously said, this is different people, I am older than the people who made me feel like shyte. I don't know. I think they took it way too far. 

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 8:53am

DoTheDood said: "SouthernCakes said: "I don’t see people threatening to shut down every production of Twelfth Night? So why does this strike a chord so much?" 

Trans issues are very complicated, but Twelfth Night is slightly different as it's a woman pretending to be a man. Trans-men usually aren't victimized in the same way trans-women are, as (for the most part) transphobes joke about a "man-in-a-dress". As transphobes just see trans-men as "not men", it's no threat to them, but a"man-in-a-dress" for them is, which then becomes a joke. That then becomes a trope of not seeing trans-women who they are, women. They still don't see trans-men as men either, but it's not a harmful trope, so woman can joke about dressing as men and trans-men (as far as I'm aware) don't find it offensive."

i agree that trans women are being murdered at an alarming rate (not that there’s an acceptable rate other than 0%), but I’d also say that in regard to trans men having it easier, Brandon Teena (Boy’s Don’t Cry) might disagree with you if he was still with us. Of course, he was murdered before transgender was widely used as an identity term so I don’t want to claim an identify for him that he might reject, but based on the movie, he was biologically born with a woman’s body, but  identified as a man. I think the Twelfth Night comparison is apt as is Shakespeare in Love and Yentl. I just don’t see them as problematic. They are not the problem  I have tickets to see Tootsie on October 4th if it stays open that long so I can see it for myself. 

And can I just say that things can be slightly problematic and still not be worthy of being boycotted or lamented endlessly about? Surely we have bigger fish to fry. I mean as a gay man I love David Letterman despite the fact that when he had his talk show, as I recall he would use the “stereotypical gay” voice when it was clear he was portraying an effeminate gay man. Not to mention the way he treated Richard Simmons even though Simmons seemed to be willing to go along with it. It was a chink in the armor of someone I otherwise admire(d). Tootsie is closing sooner rather than later based on its box office receipts. It doesn’t seem to make sense to spend a lot of time lamenting its existence when there are more pressing issues from people/groups that actively mean the LGBT community harm. But Who knows? Maybe I’ll see it on October 4th and be horribly offended by it. 

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 9:07am

magictodo123 said: "What also really gets me is how the people attacking me and calling me transphobic for seeing the show were also people who are looking forward to Mrs. Doubtfire. It just confuses me. Yes, I know Daniel Hillard has more redeeming qualities than Michael Dorsey, but it's still the same "man dresses as a woman and takes a job from someone" idea. Also, was Michael's friend really a good actress? Did she deserve it more than the character Michael created? A lot of people also don't think it's creepy that Daniel dressed as a woman to get closer to his kids, but...I have to disagree?? I did like Mrs. Doubtfire more than Tootsie, but isn't it still wrong?? I just don't understand. But as people have previously said, this is different people, I am older than the people who made me feel like shyte. I don't know. I think they took it way too far."

Why do you even care what ill-informed strangers on the internet have to say? No one can MAKE you feel anything; either you feel bad or you don't, that choice is up to you. When I look at comments from people on social media, I generally see utter ignorance, and poor grammar, spelling, and punctuation to go along with it. How can you take any of that seriously? Also, I don't care what anyone says, opinions can be wrong, and, often, people simply have no idea what they're talking about.

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 9:09am

Miles is right, there are SO many other things to focus on than this show. Like seriously, its a comedy from the 80s that in no way makes an effort to distinguish, point out, or offend any group or minority. They also in no way defend Michale Dorosy, if anything they somewhat villianize him. Did some of you even see the show or are you just commenting on stupid twitter drama? 

[Huss417]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 9:17am

Mike Barrett said: "Miles is right, there are SO many other things to focus on than this show. Like seriously, its a comedy from the 80s that in no way makes an effort to distinguish, point out, or offend any group or minority. They also in no way defend Michale Dorosy, if anything they somewhat villianize him.Did some of you even see the show or are you just commenting on stupid twitter drama?"

"Stupid Twitter Drama" The other STD. :)

 

[magictodo123]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 9:19am

1. It is a lot easier said than done for people to ignore hatred directed towards them when all they did was see a show hundreds of people have seen, and they haven't been treated the same way. 

2. I did actually see the show, thanks. In..April? Before the Tonys. 

3. I posted a thread about why I ended up seeing Tootsie, and why that was okay. I immediately got attacked. It seemed as though everyone came out of the woodwork to accuse me of being transphobic. It got so bad I have to make a new Twitter account. I didn't go to BroadwayCon because my friend considers themselves a part of the trans community, and they said NOTHING. They didn't bother. Absolute silence from them. I was completely alone. When every other notification you're getting is about how you're a horrible person, it's hard to ignore. That's what I was going through. So as easy as it may be to say "ignore it" (which yes, I do agree with you-spelling mistakes abound!! It's hard to ignore and painful) it's really not that simple. I reported what I could, blocked everyone who said hateful things. I want someone, anyone, to comment on why this is an okay way to treat someone. 

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 9:22am

magictodo123 said: "1. It is a lot easier said than done for people to ignore hatred directed towards them when all they did was see a show hundreds of people have seen, and they haven't been treated the same way.

2. I did actually see the show, thanks. In..April? Before the Tonys.

3. I posted a thread about why I ended up seeing Tootsie, and why that was okay. I immediately got attacked. It seemed as though everyone came out of the woodwork to accuse me of being transphobic. It got so bad I have to make a new Twitter account. I didn't go to BroadwayCon because my friend considers themselves a part of the trans community, and they said NOTHING. They didn't bother. Absolute silence from them. I was completely alone. When every other notification you're getting is about how you're a horrible person, it's hard to ignore. That's what I was going through. So as easy as it may be to say "ignore it" (which yes, I do agree with you-spelling mistakes abound!! It's hard to ignore and painful) it's really not that simple. I reported what I could, blocked everyone who said hateful things. I want someone, anyone, to comment on why this is an okay way to treat someone."

It’s not okay, I believe you, and I’m sorry that happened to you. 

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 9:27am

magictodo123 said: "1. It is a lot easier said than done for people to ignore hatred directed towards them when all they did was see a show hundreds of people have seen, and they haven't been treated the same way.

2. I did actually see the show, thanks. In..April? Before the Tonys.

3. I posted a thread about why I ended up seeing Tootsie, and why that was okay. I immediately got attacked. It seemed as though everyone came out of the woodwork to accuse me of being transphobic. It got so bad I have to make a new Twitter account. I didn't go to BroadwayCon because my friend considers themselves a part of the trans community, and they said NOTHING. They didn't bother. Absolute silence from them. I was completely alone. When every other notification you're getting is about how you're a horrible person, it's hard to ignore. That's what I was going through. So as easy as it may be to say "ignore it" (which yes, I do agree with you-spelling mistakes abound!! It's hard to ignore and painful) it's really not that simple. I reported what I could, blocked everyone who said hateful things. I want someone, anyone, to comment on why this is an okay way to treat someone."

It is in NO way right to be treated that way, and Im sorry you had to go through that. Lots of posters on here are super nasty, I really recommend not engaging with them. Hard to ignore, and they can be vile! 

That wasnt the point with my comment though. I guess I completely fail to see what is so offending about this show. I don't ask any of this with snark, but is it truly because he's a man dressing up as a woman? In a comedy that was entirely meant to be a comedy and not political, I don't see how this is an issue. It also doesn't really matter ultimately since it doesn't seem to be connecting with audiences based on sales. 

[magictodo123]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 9:32am

Miles2Go2 said: "magictodo123 said: "1. It is a lot easier said than done for people to ignore hatred directed towards them when all they did was see a show hundreds of people have seen, and they haven't been treated the same way.

2. I did actually see the show, thanks. In..April? Before the Tonys.

3. I posted a thread about why I ended up seeing Tootsie, and why that was okay. I immediately got attacked. It seemed as though everyone came out of the woodwork to accuse me of being transphobic. It got so bad I have to make a new Twitter account. I didn't go to BroadwayCon because my friend considers themselves a part of the trans community, and they said NOTHING. They didn't bother. Absolute silence from them. I was completely alone. When every other notification you're getting is about how you're a horrible person, it's hard to ignore. That's what I was going through. So as easy as it may be to say "ignore it" (which yes, I do agree with you-spelling mistakes abound!! It's hard to ignore and painful) it's really not that simple. I reported what I could, blocked everyone who said hateful things. I want someone, anyone, to comment on why this is an okay way to treat someone."

It’s not okay, I believe you, and I’m sorry that happened toyou."

Thank you. The only reason why I ended up seeing it was because my sister treated me to two shows for my birthday (I also saw The Cher Show) and I had heard how funny Tootsie was and was curious. That's the reason why I ended up seeing it. Something being labeled one of the funniest things on Broadway? Of course I was curious! I guess I could have seen Waitress again and avoided the whole thing...I was going to do Hadestown, and I was one of the first 5 people in line that night, but for some reason I thought they wouldn't have enough tickets. So I wandered around and ended up at Tootsie. 

When I saw it, the theater was full. I think we just have to watch the grosses. I'm not a wiz when it comes to predicting closings, or wishing closings (I'd never do that), but if I were to predict it for this particular show, I'd say end of the month beginning of September. But that's just me. 

 

I'm so sorry I brought my stupid Twitter drama to this thread. I was just so upset, and hurt, and could barely focus at work when it exploded in my face.But again, I'm sorry :/

[dramamama611]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 9:34am

Pretty sure he isn't talking about anyone here giving him grief over seeing Tootsie.  He was discussing other boards/chat rooms/whatever.   (Not to say there aren't people here that can get nasty.)

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 9:42am

Ah, got it! No shame on you seeing the show, as did I. Don’t let twitter get to you, I promise it’s not really what the world is like. Easier said than done, but trust me! You’ll be much happier. I got off Twitter 2 years ago and it’s made me feel soooo much better overall.

[magictodo123]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 9:54am

Mike Barrett said: "Ah, got it! No shame on you seeing the show, as did I. Don’t let twitter get to you, I promise it’s not really what the world is like. Easier said than done, but trust me! You’ll be much happier. I got off Twitter 2 years ago and it’s made me feel soooo much better overall."

Ugh TEACH ME YOUR WAYS!! Haha. 

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 10:01am

magictodo123 said: "Mike Barrett said: "Ah, got it! No shame on you seeing the show, as did I. Don’t let twitter get to you, I promise it’s not really what the world is like. Easier said than done, but trust me! You’ll be much happier. I got off Twitter 2 years ago and it’s made me feel soooo much better overall."

Ugh TEACH ME YOUR WAYS!! Haha."

Just log off, as simple as that! You'll find other ways to get your news or memes trust me! Reddit is oddly better Imo, although certainly not great but theres much more civil discussion on there, plus more specific areas of discussion which help weed out trolls and such. Recommend it! 

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 10:14am

Its complicated but as someone who is pansexual I feel the need to respond! I don't personally see pan as going back between MY gender identity, but more so that my sexuality is fluid. Im not even a fan of labels to begin with, but yes, being pansexual is a thing. Most people who are bisexual only indentify men and women, while pansexual people like myself all recognize trans men and women. There is a slight difference, but "dumb millennials" shows your ageism quite well. 

Updated On: 8/8/19 at 10:14 AM

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 10:28am

This is way off topic but "pansexual" is a millennial things to reinvent the wheel. Switch hitters, swingers, bi, are all things that have been around forever and express basically the same group. It actually makes me really angry to see "pansexuals" denying any affiliation with the LGBTQ community because they're just too special and unique and New Agey for that. 

[Rainah]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 10:41am

I've literally never seen a pansexual person (which has nothing to do with gender, it's a sexuality) not identify as part of the lgbtq community but go off on millenials I guess.

Can we get back to tootsie? How long do we think it has? January?

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 10:46am

I'd give it till mid-September. Advances will probably drop more after Labor Day.

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 10:50am

I say November. Before or right after Thanksgiving. Its been trending even worse than I thought it would and I just can't see it picking up this fall. Can open a big new musical in Jan/Feb then. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 11:22am

If it makes it to Thanksgiving, it wint close before the first of the year...lots of $$$$ to be had in those 5-6 weeks. And I'm not implying it will close before that time.

[magictodo123]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 11:41am

poisonivy2 said: "I'd give it till mid-September. Advances will probably drop more after Labor Day."

I  agree. I hate speculating about closings, as I've said, but I do agree. The advance sales don't look very good. I looked ahead to August 24th, not even two weeks away, and the amount of seats not sold were far more than the seats sold. I think it's only a matter of time, unfortunately. 

[DoTheDood]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 12:24pm

poisonivy2 said: "It actually makes me really angry to see "pansexuals" denying any affiliation with the LGBTQ community because they're just too special and unique and New Agey for that."

I know multiple pan people and all of them are active members in the LGBTQ+ community. Can people just identify as they like please, even if you don't personally get it? Also that has literally nothing to do with this thread besides someone mentioning they are bi, it is not needed.

[DoTheDood]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 12:28pm

Mike Barrett said: "Most people who are bisexual only indentify men and women, while pansexual people like myself all recognize trans men and women. There is a slight difference, but "dumb millennials" shows your ageism quite well."

As someone who is bi, I kind of want to refute this point. Like I use bi as an identity, but I would still date a trans person or non-binary person, I won't limit myself to just the two. I get you did say most, but I think that's taking the term "bi" as more a literal term, while I use it as more "I'm not gay, but I'm not straight either". I probably should be using pan then, but I feel like bi just fits me better? What I'm saying is bi people don't invalid other people outside the binary. 

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 12:54pm

DoTheDood said: "Mike Barrett said: "Most people who are bisexual only indentify men and women, while pansexual people like myself all recognize trans men and women. There is a slight difference, but "dumb millennials" shows your ageism quite well."

As someone who is bi, I kind of want to refute this point. Like I use bi as an identity, but I would still date a trans person or non-binary person, I won't limit myself to just the two. I get you did say most, but I think that's taking the term "bi" as more a literal term, while I use it as more "I'm not gay, but I'm not straight either". I probably should be using pan then, but I feel like bi just fits me better? What I'm saying is bi people don't invalid other people outside the binary."

Fair. I mean only you can label yourself whatever you want. The literal definition for it, and few people I’ve met (although this doesn’t speak for everyone) have told me men and women. No mention of trans women or men, or any other gender identity. I don’t mean to take that as transphobic or they ARENT into those, but I think pan specifically describe something it as I’m more a people person rather than any 1 set sexuality if that makes sense?

 

re Tootsie though: Fair point thanksgiving has lots of times to make money, but new shows like Moulin Rouge, JLP, and Tina will already have opened. We don’t know their box office yet (other than MR) but I think they have chances to be a success at least out of the gates. Not sure Tootsie has much room to win over ticket buyers. 

[Brooks0214]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 1:03pm

I saw Tootsie the other day and I am not sure why so many critics praised it for being the funniest new broadway show of the season. It wa funny but it wasn’t funny in the way you’d laugh several minutes at in my opinion. I think The Prom is the funniest new musical by far. Also don’t agree with it winning best book at all... anyone else feel this way?
With that being said though I did enjoy the show, I didn’t hate it. It was a decent afternoon at the theater.

[DoTheDood]

Posted: 8/8/19 at 1:13pm

Mike Barrett said: "Fair. I mean only you can label yourself whatever you want. The literal definition for it, and few people I’ve met (although this doesn’t speak for everyone) have told me men and women. No mention of trans women or men, or any other gender identity. I don’t mean to take that as transphobic or they ARENT into those, but I think pan specifically describe something it as I’m more a people person rather than any 1 set sexuality if that makes sense?"

I get that, and I see your point, just that might be more the people you know rather than a generalization about bi people. This is probably a debate for a whole other thread but if someone excludes trans people from the people they date, if the trans person is a gender that somebody is already attracted to, that is transphobic. Not to say everyone is forced at least one trans person or they are invalid, just if they actively reject trans folks from the people they date.