Waitress is a Dramaturgical Wreck

[iWannaBEaSedaris]

1. Jenna is fundamentally a liar.
When in the bathroom during her morning sickness episode early in act one, her friend Dawn questions “I thought you don’t sleep with your husband” to which she responds, “He got me drunk, I do stupid things when I drink”.
Later in her appointment with her gynecologist, so unsure is she about ‘when’ the pregnancy began that she asks “How pregnant am I?”
This means one of two things: Jenna enjoys sexual congress with her husband regularly and lies about it to her friends, or, she has been engaging in sexual exploits outside of her marriage.

2. There is no timeline in which Jenna has the time to be both Waitress and Pie Maker.
She says to Pomatter in Act 1 “oh I make the pies FRESH every day”, and that there are 27 different varieties of pie. The pie prep and baking time would consume over 6 hours of her day at least, and that’s with a commercial oven. The diner is open for breakfast and presumably lunch as well, let’s say it closes at 3. And since we know that she doesn’t bake before opening, as she arrives with the rest of the waitresses before the song ‘When he sees me’ this means she is baking from 3-9 or after daily. She repeatedly says how her husband Earl drives her to and from work.
No wonder he, very understandably says, “I’m not sure it’s worth you working at this diner” If she waited tables and baked it would add up to a 14 hour day every day. This would push her into 30 hours of overtime a week. This arrangement seems highly improbable.

3. Although the show takes place over 7&1/2 months, the costuming if the show never changes with seasons. Summer dresses and light jackets trap the characters in a perpetually nebulous season that tells no story of the passing of time.

4. Earl Hunterson is half owner of LuLu’s Pies. At the time of the bequest of the Pie Shop from Old Joe to Jenna, Earl and Jenna, while perhaps having begun the divorce proceedings, would not have had time to complete them. This would entitle Earl to a half ownership stake in Lulu’s Pie Shop.

5. We know that Jenna gives birth in a hospital. Old Joe says, “I bought you this card in the gift shop downstairs”. If Jenna is in a hospital, why is Norma, a private practice OB GYN nurse helping with the delivery at the hospital? It would be highly irregular to find a private practice nurse in a hospital setting. It’s a logical incongruity.

6. The play severely fails the reverse Bechdel test. It paints its male characters as one dimensional props that only exist in relationship to the women around them. At no point in the show do two men talk to each other about something other than a woman.

7. The Revolutionary War re-enactment community is a rather small one. This means one of two things: Dawn is lying about her participation, Ogie is lying about his. Both claim to have participated in the re-enactment community for well over a decade. If Dawn played the pivotal role of a Betsy Ross re-enactor, it’s highly unlikely that Ogie wouldn’t be familiar with her work. Additionally, a re-enactment injury such as Ogie’s spleen removal would hardly go unmentioned in the insular local re-enacting community. Also if both attended such events as local readings of the federalist papers, it’s highly unlikely that they would be complete strangers.

8. Dawn ended the close relationship Ogie shares with his mother. In every scene before the wedding, Ogie mentions his mother with glowing admiration. By the time the wedding occurs, she is not even present at the ceremony.

[Bwayfan292]

I think the biggest crime is the price they sell the “pies in a cup” for..

[Call_me_jorge]

It’s not supposed to be that deep

[zainmax]

Bwayfan292 said: "I think the biggest crime is the price they sell the “pies in a cup” for.."

How much, and are they worth it?

[Miles2Go2]

Next up, iWannaBEaSedaris dissects the implausibilities of Wicked, The Phantom of the Opera and The Band’s Visit.

[Kad]

You're not gonna be a Sedaris if this is what you're offering them.

[JBroadway]

This was a very entertaining read! It’s like CinemaSins for Broadway! I’d actually love to see you do this with other shows.

If the OP found all these problems with Waitress, imagine what they could say about shows that actually ARE dramatirgical wrecks,

[Call_me_jorge]

JBroadway said: "This was a very entertaining read! It’s like CinemaSins for Broadway! I’d actually love to see you do this with other shows.”

 

Wait I totally agree. I love cinemasins and would love for a broadway edition. Keep it up WannaBe!

[BroadwayConcierge]

Yup, a really entertaining and interesting read (and I've thought the same thing about #2 from the first time I saw the show!). Thanks, WannaBe.

I've always thought Waitress is one of the more overrated shows in recent Broadway history. It's not unwatchable garbage or anything, but there are some pretty big inconsistencies, and it's overall just kind of boring? It's not like it ever reaches any heights of searing, gripping theatre (except maybe "She Used to Be Mine". 

[bwayrose7]

Not sure if you're a troll or not, but in case you're serious:

1) Abusers don't just abuse their victims one time. If he got her drunk once to coerce sex, he's done it more than once.

2) Yeah, most restaurants rotate their flavors of any specialty item, rather than have them all on one day.

3) Most of them wear uniforms?

4) Depends on the terms of Joe's will, their divorce, and if it's a community property state.

5) Ensemble members tend to play multiple roles. It's called doubling.

6) Boo frickin' hoo. That's not what the story is about.

7) Clearly you've never seen how fractured a small community can get. Some of the most insane rivalries I've ever seen have been when one insular group fragments over something stupid and no one ever speaks again.

8) How do you know she's not one of the ensemble members?

P.S. what was the point of this thread, anyway? Sincerely, a professional dramaturg.

[dianamorales]

This is my favorite post on this website. Thank you.

[ghostlight2]

Val's entire monologue in A Chorus Line makes no sense. Someone from her town became a Rockette and came home for Christmas? What Rockette takes off CHRISTMAS? Further, she became pregnant during that trip so she never returned? So, not only did she take off for Christmas, but she found out she was pregnant instantly? 

Just about any show can be picked apart this way.

...so let's do it

[TheSassySam]

bwayrose7 said: "Not sure if you're a troll or not, but in case you're serious:

1) Abusers don't just abuse their victims one time. If he got her drunk once to coerce sex, he's done it more than once.

2) Yeah, most restaurants rotate their flavors of any specialty item, rather than have them all on one day.

3) Most of them wear uniforms?

4) Depends on the terms of Joe's will, their divorce, and if it's a community property state.

5) Ensemble members tend to play multiple roles. It's called doubling.

6) Boo frickin' hoo. That's not what the story is about.

7) Clearly you've never seen how fractured a small community can get. Some of the most insane rivalries I've ever seen have been when one insular group fragments over something stupid and no one ever speaks again.

8) How do you know she's not one of the ensemble members?

P.S. what was the point of this thread, anyway?Sincerely, a professional dramaturg."

You sound real fun. 

 

Also, putting "Sincerely, a professional dramaturg" at the end of your post, doesn't necessarily allow us to believe you are one. But if you wanted to sound condescending, you've achieved your goal. 

[adamgreer]

I found this quite interesting and enjoyable to read.

The only one of these items I ever thought about before was #2, which always bothered me. Obviously she’s not making 27 pies a day, but when exactly are these pies getting baked?

And now I want a piece of pie from a diner.

[bwayrose7]

TheSassySam said: "bwayrose7 said: "Not sure if you're a troll or not, but in case you're serious:

1) Abusers don't just abuse their victims one time. If he got her drunk once to coerce sex, he's done it more than once.

2) Yeah, most restaurants rotate their flavors of any specialty item, rather than have them all on one day.

3) Most of them wear uniforms?

4) Depends on the terms of Joe's will, their divorce, and if it's a community property state.

5) Ensemble members tend to play multiple roles. It's called doubling.

6) Boo frickin' hoo. That's not what the story is about.

7) Clearly you've never seen how fractured a small community can get. Some of the most insane rivalries I've ever seen have been when one insular group fragments over something stupid and no one ever speaks again.

8) How do you know she's not one of the ensemble members?

P.S. what was the point of this thread, anyway?Sincerely, a professional dramaturg."

You sound real fun.



Also, putting "Sincerely, a professional dramaturg" at the end of your post, doesn't necessarily allow us to believe you are one. But if you wanted to sound condescending, you've achieved your goal."

As condescending and fun as the original poster seems to be. I have no problem with anyone else.

[JBroadway]

Why would anyone lie about being a professional dramaturg?

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

iWannaBEaSedaris said: "1. Jenna is fundamentally a liar.
When in the bathroom during her morning sickness episode early in act one, her friend Dawn questions “I thought you don’t sleep with your husband” to which she responds, “He got me drunk, I do stupid things when I drink”.
Later in her appointment with her gynecologist, so unsure is she about ?when’ the pregnancy began that she asks “How pregnant am I?”
This means one of two things: Jenna enjoys sexual congress with her husband regularly and lies about it to her friends, or, she has been engaging in sexual exploits outside of her marriage.

Not necessarily. She probably drank more than once and is unsure which time lead to conception. Some times husbands rape their wives in their sleep. Maybe that's where her surprise comes from regarding how far along she is in her pregnancy.

2. There is no timeline in which Jenna has the time to be both Waitress and Pie Maker.
She says to Pomatter in Act 1 “oh I make the pies FRESH every day”, and that there are 27 different varieties of pie. The pie prep and baking time would consume over 6 hours of her day at least, and that’s with a commercial oven. The diner is open for breakfast and presumably lunch as well, let’s say it closes at 3. And since we know that she doesn’t bake before opening, as she arrives with the rest of the waitresses before the song ?When he sees me’ this means she is baking from 3-9 or after daily. She repeatedly says how her husband Earl drives her to and from work.
No wonder he, very understandably says, “I’m not sure it’s worth you working at this diner” If she waited tables and baked it would add up to a 14 hour day every day. This would push her into 30 hours of overtime a week. This arrangement seems highly improbable.

Although I do agree that I didn't understand when she had time to make pies in the movie as well, 14 hour days is actually not that abnormal for working waiters/waitresses. My mom was a waitress for most of my teen-to-young adult life and 12-13 hours was pretty normal. She'd had to be at work at 10am for prep, there might be a lull between lunch and dinner (but the restaurant never closed during that period) and she'd do the dinner shift which lasted until 10pm (11pm weekends) and she'd clean as well (though she'd start the cleaning process early if she had less tables). Many working full-time waiters can tell you working 10-13 hour shifts can be normal. Also, are you SURE it would take her six hours to make the pies?

3. Although the show takes place over 7&1/2 months, the costuming if the show never changes with seasons. Summer dresses and light jackets trap the characters in a perpetually nebulous season that tells no story of the passing of time.

I don't remember, but where does this story take place? In the South it can usually be hot for that many months. I don't remember the months or anything like that being established either. Aren't they mostly indoors anyway? In the South, it's not uncommon for the AC to be blasting for like 9 months out of the year so people dress similarly for most of the year. As the post above says, aren't they mostly in uniform anyway?

4. Earl Hunterson is half owner of LuLu’s Pies. At the time of the bequest of the Pie Shop from Old Joe to Jenna, Earl and Jenna, while perhaps having begun the divorce proceedings, would not have had time to complete them. This would entitle Earl to a half ownership stake in Lulu’s Pie Shop.

Not necessarily. Inheritances can be protected. It depends on the state laws. Even in community property states, they can treat inheritances to one spouse as separate property. There are things that can be argued that it's actually community property but considering that she was bequeathed the diner right at the end of her marriage, Earl will have a hard time arguing any of those points.

5. We know that Jenna gives birth in a hospital. Old Joe says, “I bought you this card in the gift shop downstairs”. If Jenna is in a hospital, why is Norma, a private practice OB GYN nurse helping with the delivery at the hospital? It would be highly irregular to find a private practice nurse in a hospital setting. It’s a logical incongruity.

Good point. I do wonder if some hospitals may be laxed about that in smaller towns where hospitals are much shorter staffed than in more populous areas. But as the poster above me posted, it could just be a case of doubling.

6. The play severely fails the reverse Bechdel test. It paints its male characters as one dimensional props that only exist in relationship to the women around them. At no point in the show do two men talk to each other about something other than a woman.

The raison d'etre for the Bechdel-Wallace test, which Alison Bechdel never intended for it to be used against every movie to make a huge point but rather it was just a general comment about lack of viable female representation in films, is to show that female characters don't have the same amount of diversity in representation. One work where men look like bumbling fools doesn't mean that men in general aren't better represented in film with works that show the full spectrum of film. Using the term "reverse Bechdel test" will probably make her gag. It's like saying "reverse racism" or "reverse sexism" when those terms are talking about broad sociological behavior and trends.

7. The Revolutionary War re-enactment community is a rather small one. This means one of two things: Dawn is lying about her participation, Ogie is lying about his. Both claim to have participated in the re-enactment community for well over a decade. If Dawn played the pivotal role of a Betsy Ross re-enactor, it’s highly unlikely that Ogie wouldn’t be familiar with her work. Additionally, a re-enactment injury such as Ogie’s spleen removal would hardly go unmentioned in the insular local re-enacting community. Also if both attended such events as local readings of the federalist papers, it’s highly unlikely that they would be complete strangers.

True. Maybe Ogie and Dawn are from different towns/counties and each one has their own reenactment society that for some reason does not intermingle but that's not very likely as people with shared hobbies would communicate with one another even from different towns/states. I think it's one of those things where we're supposed to accept the society is much bigger than it actually is in real life. Although, the post above mine says these communities can actually be pretty quite fragmented. If that's the case, then your assumptions about the way these societies are doesn't mean this is a dramaturgical failing rather than simply your false assumption.

8. Dawn ended the close relationship Ogie shares with his mother. In every scene before the wedding, Ogie mentions his mother with glowing admiration. By the time the wedding occurs, she is not even present at the ceremony.
"

I would agree with this as her lack of presence wasn't really explained as far as I remember. I just assumed they didn't want to hire an actress just to play the mother who would just serve as an extra. But maybe she was since there were extras in that scene.

 

[bwayrose7]

JBroadway said: "Why would anyone lie about being a professional dramaturg?"

I guess they assume I'd lie about that to have more authority in a dramaturgy-related thread. Fair enough point, but if anyone cares, it's not a lie, just a way of expressing that my post is one part serious and one part "light snark"

[OKBroadwayFan]

Healthcare professional here...

"We know that Jenna gives birth in a hospital. Old Joe says, “I bought you this card in the gift shop downstairs”. If Jenna is in a hospital, why is Norma, a private practice OB GYN nurse helping with the delivery at the hospital? It would be highly irregular to find a private practice nurse in a hospital setting. It’s a logical incongruity."

Actually in a small town, the nurse for the OB/GYN nurse may work part time in the hospital as a nurse.  She also may accompany the doctor when he makes rounds.  Even in large cities, nurses have jobs in private clinics and also are on the staff at a local hospital.

[iWannaBEaSedaris]

OKBroadwayFan said: "Healthcare professional here...

"We know that Jenna gives birth in a hospital. Old Joe says, “I bought you this card in the gift shop downstairs”. If Jenna is in a hospital, why is Norma, a private practice OB GYN nurse helping with the delivery at the hospital? It would be highly irregular to find a private practice nurse in a hospital setting. It’s a logical incongruity."

Actually in a small town, the nurse for the OB/GYN nurse may work part time in the hospital as a nurse. She also may accompany the doctor when he makes rounds. Even in large cities, nurses have jobs in private clinics and also are on the staff at a local hospital."

Since you are a healthcare professional, did you notice that when Nurse Norma puts the stethoscope to Jenna’s Womb the heart beat is an adult heartbeat rather than a fast infants heart beat? Norma says, “Heartbeat’s strong and steady” when if the sound heard by the audience was coming from the child, the child would be nearly dead in utero.

[dianamorales]

7. The Revolutionary War re-enactment community is a rather small one. This means one of two things: Dawn is lying about her participation, Ogie is lying about his. Both claim to have participated in the re-enactment community for well over a decade. If Dawn played the pivotal role of a Betsy Ross re-enactor, it’s highly unlikely that Ogie wouldn’t be familiar with her work. Additionally, a re-enactment injury such as Ogie’s spleen removal would hardly go unmentioned in the insular local re-enacting community. Also if both attended such events as local readings of the federalist papers, it’s highly unlikely that they would be complete strangers.

Wait, but the show takes place in the south. Most southern states didn't exist during the Revolutionary War- what battles could they be reenacting? The Civil War would be way more likely.

"

 

[Valentina3]

iWannaBEaSedaris said: "
7. The Revolutionary War re-enactment community is a rather small one. This means one of two things: Dawn is lying about her participation, Ogie is lying about his. Both claim to have participated in the re-enactment community for well over a decade. If Dawn played the pivotal role of a Betsy Ross re-enactor, it’s highly unlikely that Ogie wouldn’t be familiar with her work. Additionally, a re-enactment injury such as Ogie’s spleen removal would hardly go unmentioned in the insular local re-enacting community. Also if both attended such events as local readings of the federalist papers, it’s highly unlikely that they would be complete strangers.

8. Dawn ended the close relationship Ogie shares with his mother. In every scene before the wedding, Ogie mentions his mother with glowing admiration. By the time the wedding occurs, she is not even present at the ceremony. "

 

Would watch - a musical based on points 7 and 8. Can you imagine? I think it would be hilarious (... obligatory "to call a cat a kind of fish"

[CT2NYC]

zainmax said: "Bwayfan292 said: "I think the biggest crime is the price they sell the “pies in a cup” for.."

How much, and are they worth it?"

They're $12. I don't know if they're worth it, but I do know that the "waitress" was blocking my view selling them after Act 2 had already started.

[Deedee23]

CT2NYC said: "zainmax said: "Bwayfan292 said: "I think the biggest crime is the price they sell the “pies in a cup” for.."

How much, and are they worth it?"

They're $12. I don't know if they're worth it, but I do know that the "waitress" was blocking my view selling them after Act2 had already started."

Guys, Jenna has to work 22 hour days to bake enough pies for the diner AND the audience. How does she have enough time to sing and live her life on stage?

[kelsey1389]

Bwayfan292 said: "I think the biggest crime is the price they sell the “pies in a cup” for.."

Well apparently Jenna is working 30 hours of overtime a week, so I guess they have to up-charge