MTI files lawsuit against Theaterpalooza

[santeFEEE]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 7:26pm

They have done 16 illegal productions from the MTI catalogue, not to mention any other non MTI shows. I looked at their facebook page and they also helmed illegal productions of Harry Potter and the Cursed Child and The Greatest Showman. What do you guys think of this?

[Scarlet Leigh]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 7:35pm

I was looking at their facebook earlier when a friend shared the post about it but now looking back again, they have removed their page. Being that they seem to charge kids to be in their shows AND they charge for tickets, it not like they were not making some kind of money. It's not that hard to factor the rights into you budget. And 16 times? Sounds to me like they are being mismanaged by someone that either doesn't know that you actually have to PAY for show rights or didn't think it mattered because they were doing it for kids. Now, the kids suffer for it so good job to whoever in charge.

Article from Playbill, don't think it's been picked up here yet. Might be soon: http://www.playbill.com/article/music-theatre-international-files-legal-action-against-virginia-community-theatre

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 7:41pm

Good for MTI. As the article states, they tried to go about it in a different matter before resorting to this.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 7:48pm

This probably happens more often than anyone knows. And it’s usually the kids who suffer and are inderectly being “taught” that copyright laws don’t matter. I was involved with a youth theatre company that paid licensing fees but would lie about the number of performances, number of seats and cost of tickets in order to negotiate a lower fee.

[BroadwayMan5]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 7:54pm

Good for MTI. There's no excuse for illegally mounting productions when thousands of schools and community theatres go about things the proper way

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 7:59pm

CATSNYrevival said: "This probably happens more often than anyone knows. And it’s usually the kids who suffer and are inderectly being “taught” that copyright laws don’t matter. I was involved with a youth theatre company that paid licensing fees but would lie about the number of performances, number of seats and cost of tickets in order to negotiate a lower fee."

 

Which is really sad (and yes, I'm sure it happens pretty frequently without being detected) especially since many places will work with you  so that it can become affordable.  I had a lovely experience dealing with Samuel French just last month (for a non-musical).

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 8:03pm

Just stupid of them. They could've afforded the rights. I will say that the current funding of arts programs in some schools make it impossible for them to afford the rights to some shows. Does MTI offer a discount to poorly funded schools? If not, I don't blame some schools for not getting the rights. It's unfortunate, but it's true. The arts programs in most public schools really struggle.

[Scarlet Leigh]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 8:06pm

Eek. Found them on Yelp. Only 7 reviews but the bad ones are pretty bad and of their 2 positive reviews, the one is from someone that went to shows but did not have children involved and the other looks to be from an account created just to leave the one positive review to counterbalance all the bad: https://www.yelp.com/biz/theaterpalooza-leesburg

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 8:20pm

Wrong is wrong.   I get NO money from my distriict for right and royalties.  (Or costumes or sets or make up or for a choreographer or for props.....you get the point)  You CAN produce shows without stealing them.   It's not easy, but there is no excuse to do otherwise.

 

You start small, you fundraise, you reach out for grants and then you put every penny back into your program.  I started ;my middle school program with NO money, and when I left to take over at the HS 15 years later, I left behind a surplus of 15K.    And I went to the high school that was 2500 in the the hole.  It isn't anymore.(And no, I couldn't bring the MS money with me to the HS)  But things will never be easy.

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 8:44pm

GeorgeandDot said: "Just stupid of them. They could've afforded the rights. I will say that the current funding of arts programs in some schools make it impossible for them to afford the rights to some shows. Does MTI offer a discount to poorly funded schools? If not, I don't blame some schools for not getting the rights. It's unfortunate, but it's true. The arts programs in most public schools really struggle."

"Does Pathmark or Key Food or Stop and Shop or Trader Joe's offer a discount off their regular prices to low income people? If not, I don't blame them for shoplifting. It's unfortunate but it's true."

You do understand that's basically what you're saying, right?

[deathofacatler]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 8:44pm

Is their Facebook page still up? I can’t seem to load it.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 8:55pm

UncleCharlie said: "GeorgeandDot said: "Just stupid of them. They could've afforded the rights. I will say that the current funding of arts programs in some schools make it impossible for them to afford the rights to some shows. Does MTI offer a discount to poorly funded schools? If not, I don't blame some schools for not getting the rights. It's unfortunate, but it's true. The arts programs in most public schools really struggle."

"Does Pathmark or Key Food or Stop and Shop or Trader Joe's offer a discount off their regular prices to low income people? If not, I don't blame them for shoplifting. It's unfortunate but it's true."

You do understand that's basically what you're saying, right?"

I didn't say they should, but I understand why they do.  The rights are ridiculously expensive and are way out of the budget for most public schools.  Most find ways to make it work, but others can't.  I see why and how it happens.  I'm sure they don't take every Middle School in the middle of nowhere to court because they didn't pay the proper fee to perform Seussical.  Of course they should pay the rights and set that example, but I know a lot schools can't fit it into their budget.  This on the other hand was a company that was charging $200+ per actor and was charging for tickets on top of that.  They had more than enough money to pay for the rights.

By the way, have you never heard of food stamps?  Also, yeah.  I would think MTI would do something to help public schools in low income neighborhoods.

 

Updated On: 7/16/18 at 08:55 PM

[Scarlet Leigh]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 8:56pm

deathofacatler said: "Is their Facebook page still up? I can’t seem to load it."

Nope. It was up earlier in the day but within a few hours they deactivated it. It is likely still there but it's basically hidden from view. It was basically a bunch of pictures of the kids in their costumes and notices about classes offered.

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 9:12pm

I am surprised that JK Rowling and Warner Bros. are not suing as well.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 9:27pm

GeorgeandDot said: "UncleCharlie said: "GeorgeandDot said: "Just stupid of them. They could've afforded the rights. I will say that the current funding of arts programs in some schools make it impossible for them to afford the rights to some shows. Does MTI offer a discount to poorly funded schools? If not, I don't blame some schools for not getting the rights. It's unfortunate, but it's true. The arts programs in most public schools really struggle."

"Does Pathmark or Key Food or Stop and Shop or Trader Joe's offer a discount off their regular prices to low income people? If not, I don't blame them for shoplifting. It's unfortunate but it's true."

You do understand that's basically what you're saying, right?"

I didn't say they should, but I understand why they do. The rights are ridiculously expensive and are way out of the budget for most public schools. Most find ways to make it work, but others can't. I see why and how it happens. I'm sure they don't take every Middle School in the middle of nowhere to court because they didn't pay the proper fee to perform Seussical. Of course they should pay the rights and set that example, but I know a lot schools can't fit it into their budget. This on the other hand was a company that was charging $200+ per actor and was charging for tickets on top of that. They had more than enough money to pay for the rights.

By the way, have you never heard of food stamps? Also, yeah. I would think MTI would do something to help public schools in low income neighborhoods.

 

There are plenty of shows, mostly non-musicals, that are in the public domain that you can perform for free. There are also a number of licensing companies that license shows much more cheaply than the big licensing houses.  Are they adaptations of classic stories? Sure.  And a lot of them aren't great. But you do that until you can afford to put on one of the other shows.  Ma and Pa will go see little Johnny in whatever show he's in.

[ggersten]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 10:27pm

I am curious where these unlicensed productions get the scripts and scores. Some scripts are floating around and there are vocal selection books but those hardly seem sufficient. Are they getting perusal scripts and just copying before returning them?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 10:54pm

George &Dot - They should do it to set an example????   99% of the kids involved would have no idea that rights and royalties NEED to be paid, and more importantly: they wouldn't know if they HAD been paid or not.

 

They should pay rights and royalties because that's the law and the right thing to do.

 

Did you bother to read the article?  Of course they are not bringing every school to court that doesn't pay r&r - it's not worth their effort/time.  But this place had already been "warned", they tried to get them to see the error of their ways: they've documented nearly TWENTY examples just of their own titles. 

 

Wrong is wrong: whether or not it's in your budget.   Just because it's the arts doesn't give them more wiggle room.  

[EllieRose2]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 11:28pm

"There are plenty of shows, mostly non-musicals, that are in the public domain that you can perform for free. There are also a number of licensing companies that license shows much more cheaply than the big licensing houses.  Are they adaptations of classic stories? Sure.  And a lot of them aren't great. But you do that until you can afford to put on one of the other shows.  Ma and Pa will go see little Johnny in whatever show he's in."

Thank you.  I loved that they thought they could just blatantly rip off MTI and they would not get sued?  Ridiculous.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 11:42pm

I agree with all of that, Dramamama11. I was just surprised when I was told a while back by a friend that there are so many schools that don't pay for the rights of the show that they're doing and just buy the published version of the script. I really thought about how stupid that was and how it set such a negative example to the young actors in the show. When I thought further, I realized how so many arts programs have no money and I realized how it happens. I'm not part of any school drama department or anything so I don't have first-hand experience, but I guess I can see how this sort of thing starts. I'm not defending it at all, just to be clear.

Also, it does set a terrible example to young artists. It tells them that they don't have to respect and pay other artists for their work. I guess my moral here is: stop cutting funding for the arts so that school drama programs don't have to sell spare organs to do a musical or else they have to do it illegally.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/16/18 at 11:55pm

It does, but only if they are even aware of it. I doubt any director is advertising the fact they arent paying when they are obligated to do so. Kids just aren't aware, they assume adults in charge - particularly in schools - are doing what they are supposed to be doing.

My point is, that schools dont have to do it illegally at all, I started with no budget - twice, one even in the negative, and never skimped on paying royalties.

[BroadwayMan5]

Posted: 7/17/18 at 12:12am

The cost for rights/royalties depends on the size of your theater, how many tickets you expect to sell, and how much the tickets cost. If you are a small, poor school or community that doesn't charge much and doesn't sell much, MTI will quote you at a much lower cost than a fancy arts school or a lucrative community theater.

[Scarlet Leigh]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 5:13am

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/MTI-Files-Suit-Against-Continual-Infringer-Theaterpalooza-20180723

Oh. Wow. This lady. THIS. LADY.

I hunted down the article that she gave her statements to. Appears to be a local newspaper and also looks like it was done on the same day that news broke about the lawsuit: https://www.loudountimes.com/business/ashburn-based-theaterpalooza-sued-over-alleged-nonpayment-of-licensing-fees/article_40be3e34-89e3-11e8-b09a-0704ad593c82.html

An ADDITIONAL quote from her in the article that just.... honestly you gotta read it: "Ten of the shows we never produced, and some of the shows are our own versions.”

For real, what crazy town is this lady living in?! That's maybe even WORSE then not paying for the rights because if you are using the songs, ANY part of the script or plot that is even REMOTELY similar, or BILLING the show under the impression that it is the copyrighted version (EX. They were billing that they would be doing CURSED CHILD soon) then you are STILL BREAKING THE LAW cus now you are plagiarizing the work.

 

EDIT: Went to glance back at that Yelp listing and there is a new review from an Amanda Z. She apparently knows a former teacher from the group and dishes on a bunch of stuff she knows including that the teachers were told to re-write copyrighted works to perform them without paying rights.

Updated On: 7/24/18 at 05:13 AM

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 6:38am

She’s trying to play the sympathy card by saying she’s “doing it for the children.”

After reading that interview, I’m glad MTI is being so strident in their response. Anyone who has worked in the theater, even community theater, much less a drama academy like this lady, knows that you have to pay for the rights to the shows you do. Her ignorance won’t work here.

She illegally produced 16 shows (and that’s just from the MTI catalogue). That’s not a mistake or getting behind on a payment. That’s willful. Her operation needs to be shut down at this point.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 7:03am

Her interview is totally about looking good to her community. And she took a page right out of Trumps book - LIE.

Most will take her at face value. She could even get away with it if she can keep the lawsuit and its results out of the paper.