First time for "Carousel"

[pacificnorthwest]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 8:18am

Making an unexpected trip up for one night this weekend and have pretty much decided to see "Carousel." I'd been so discouraged, and I guess persuaded, by the comments on the board early on that I moved it way down my list. But I've also read some positive comments since, and some of the reviews were fairly strong. What I really took away from all of it on the message boards was how well many of you know the show, which gives you a perspective I don't have.

So, given that I've never seen it on stage or on screen, I'm wondering if those of you who are experts -- and those who've also just seen it for the first time -- think I'm likely to enjoy tt? Generally speaking, I like the vast majority of what I see, even when other chatters and critics haven't. But not always.

[CindersGolightly]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 8:27am

Something I keep hearing is that purists of "Carousel" hate it, and newbies to the show adore it. I'm a purist, and I didn't like it. If you haven't ever been acquainted with the show, though, you may just walk out with a new favorite Rodgers and Hammerstein musical! I'm sure you'll have a good time.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 8:40am

I went in an as a "newbie", and I still absolutely loathed it. The direction and design elements are so incredibly misguided. I just thought the production was awful except for the singing and orchestra which were both top notch. The chemistry between Mueller and Henry is basically nonexistent.

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 8:42am

I was a Carousel newbie when I saw the show 2 weeks ago, and I really enjoyed it. I was able to watch it without thinking about what was changed or cut, and I think that helped a great deal. Even if you don't care much for the plot, I think you'll appreciate the quality of the singing and dancing, as I did. It's first-rate, in my opinion. May I ask what night you're planning to see the show? I can check out Telecharge and give you a seating recommendation.

[pacificnorthwest]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 8:49am

Thanks! And thanks everyone for chiming in. Very interesting.

Probably Friday. My main seating question for the Shubert -- because I never remember to jot these things down -- is whether there's a bar in front of the first-row mezzanine that interferes with your sight line (at least for a short person).

But if you have any specific seating recommendations, please share.

Thank you!

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 9:04am

There's no bar along the front row of the mezzanine at the Imperial. I'm assuming you know about the discount on Telecharge Offers? If you're looking at Friday, I suppose you're interested in the front-row mezzanine seats that are available. I usually prefer the front row of the mezzanine, but I sat front-row center orchestra for this show, and I loved it. Orchestra B 1 and D1 are also available for that night, at the same discounted price of $125. I think they're also excellent options. If you wait until Saturday, and would like to save some money, front mezzanine A 8 is available as a $59 partial-view seat. I think the obstruction there would be quite minimal.

Updated On: 4/25/18 at 09:04 AM

[pacificnorthwest]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 9:19am

Thank you! 

I definitely know about discounts. I preach them to everyone I know headed to NYC. My motto: NEVER pay full price unless there's absolutely no other option. ??

[pacificnorthwest]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 9:22am

P.S. I meant the Imperial, of course. 

I had Shubert in my head because I was also considering seeing Hello Dolly! for a second time. 

 

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 9:44am

I strongly recommend that you not waste your money on this disaster of a production. The 2013 Lincoln Center recording with Kelli O’Hara and Mueller as Carrie is so, so much better than this version. It’d be a much better way to experience this gorgeous, historic show for the first time than see the letdown happening at the Imperial.

[KathyNYC2]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 9:53am

I have no interest in seeing this personally but I'm a strong believer in ignoring what you read on message boards and even with reviews. Or at least reading them without placing too much importance on them. I often enjoy things I don't expect to enjoy and dislike things that got raves. If you are interested to go, you should go and make up your own mind.

That said you just read my comment on a message board, so feel free to ignore it.

[JudyDenmark]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 11:02am

I'm seeing it tonight (from first row mezzanine, FWIW) and know next to nothing about it. I know a bunch of the songs just because they're iconic in the musical theatre canon, but have only the vaguest notion of the plot. Happy to report back and let you know my thoughts. My gut says that I may scratch my head at the apparently kind of weird story, but I'm really there for the glorious singing and dancing (big Justin Peck fan) so I think I'll really enjoy it on that level. 

[pacificnorthwest]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 11:23am

Thanks, Judy. Would love to hear your thoughts. And about your seat -- which should, of course, be great.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 1:02pm

bwayphreak234 said: "I went in an as a "newbie", and I still absolutely loathed it. The direction and design elements are so incredibly misguided. I just thought the production was awful except for the singing and orchestra which were both top notch. The chemistry between Mueller and Henry is basically nonexistent."

Yup I was a total newbie as well and hated it.

But then I hated Hello Bette with a passion as well.

Updated On: 4/25/18 at 01:02 PM

[carousel94]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 3:52pm

It would seem based on my name here alone that I would have a biased opinion on this production, but I’d recommend giving it a chance. Is it a perfect revival? No. Did I still love the experience of hearing (most of) that score with some incredible voices and seeing some spectacular choreography? Absolutely.

I plan on seeing it again next month, I find this show occupies my mind most days and I am just glad to have it back in any form. I truly hope they make a recording, and maybe even reinsert some of the cut material.

Each of us has to decide for ourselves whether a show is worth the time/money we spent on it. It’s never a guarantee. I fully respect the opinions of those who despised it, but for me, it’s still a beautiful evening at the theatre.

[Alessio2]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 6:31pm

I was just in New York for 8 days and saw 12 shows on Broadway.  Carousel was high up on my list and I highly reccomend it!

[Steve C.]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 7:20pm

The ONLY thing I can agree on is that somehow Mendez and Gemigiani have managed to come through this mess unscathed! Mendez is truly AMAZING! But..., their performances alone can't save this "interpretation". Mueller and Henry sound fine but have zero point zero, zero, zero chemistry or romance. Fleming sounds okay (but with no sparks at all). IMO, Peck and O'Brien have no idea what the other one wanted. Peck's new dances lack any character or depth, Louise's ballet rolls around the floor nicely sweeping up the stage in her yellow dress....what a mess! Even the iconic "Carousel" only descends briefly (and what Carousel only has one horse?). Michael Hayden might not have been the best Billy vocally but his acting was exquisite! Henry's Billy is so misdirected, full of "street" attitude and faux machismo! Mueller will survive this too, but Mendez' Carrie gives Audra McDonald's Tony winning performance equal praise and brava's!   

[pacificnorthwest]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 8:37pm

Alessio2 said: "I was just in New York for 8 days and saw 12 shows on Broadway. Carousel was high up on my list and I highly reccomend it!"

Thanks! I have a feeling I'll like it. The wide diversity of opinions about this show is really interesting.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 9:18pm

I thought Renee Fleming was the only thing that really worked. I don't know how she was in early previews, but she was having a blast when I saw it. She sounds divine, but doesn't oversing the score and she's just a strong, fun presence on stage. I thought Jessie Mueller was great. She plays the part with such strength. She's not some meek woman, she's got something bubbling underneath. It's a subtle performance, but a lot of the role's material has been cut. Henry is great, but suffers from an unfocused performance due to poor direction. I didn't think there was a chemistry problem, but there could have been more primal, sexual emergy around them, but that's the directors fault with how blandly he's staged the bench scene. Lindsay is good, but plays the role a bit too broad and with a Jersey accent. Gemignani fades away among the scenery, largely because half of his material has been cut.

Go see it because the music is still beautiful, but keep in mind that this production is a hacked up mess.

[JudyDenmark]

Posted: 4/25/18 at 11:59pm

Ok, I posted earlier today that I was in your shoes of not really knowing anything about it other than the music, and I just got home from the show.

The good: I thought the dancing was excellent... it felt like I was at NYC Ballet, and as a big fan of NYC Ballet, I was more than happy to watch that style all night. I also thought that 95% of the singing was really spectacular. (I won't get into that 5% because I know it's my own irrational dislike of one of the actor's voices.) Also, I was in Mezzanine A5, and thought it was an absolutely flawless seat for this. I'm 5'4" and could see perfectly - there's definitely no bar in the way. In general... I give an A+ to the talent and artistic pedigree on the stage. I'll watch Amar Ramasar dance all day long - he is captivating. 

But... WTF is this show?? I am trying to take it with a grain of salt since so many of the Carousel purists here have been saying that the problem is with the production/direction and not the actual show, but assuming that they didn't completely rewrite a new book and plot for this (did they??), I find it unfathomable that this is considered a masterpiece of musical theatre, aside from the great score. I cringed through almost every spoken line, and have a hard time imagining that better acting or direction would've saved it for me. It's just so, so dated. Are we supposed to find Billy and/or Julie likable?? I found them both to be irredeemably awful characters. And then there's a random supernatural element with some modern snark?! I'll stop there and try to be nice and say that this show is... clearly just not for me. 

To sum up... I'm still glad I saw it, because I think there was a lot of artistry on that stage, and I got chills from so much of the dancing and singing. (Renée Fleming soaring above everyone in the "You'll Never Walk Alone" reprise at the end was thrilling.) So if you're the kind of person who wants to see some very talented dancers and singers doing their thing, by all means go and enjoy. But if you're someone who goes more for the overall story and experience, I'd probably reconsider. I'm still scratching my head at what the hell this show even is. 

Edit: Wanted to add that at the end, the guy next to me was pretty much weeping, and the people behind me were yelling "bravo!" So take or leave my comments - clearly YMMV. 

Updated On: 4/26/18 at 11:59 PM

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 4/26/18 at 12:17am

The show feels unbalanced because of the cuts and I could see where you would find the musical itself terrible if you had never seen it before. They've made no attempt to make the material feel fresh or modern and because of that, the whole piece feels dated. The cuts to the second act completely ruins the flow of the show. It's a shame to me to see people question the writing. That's a sign of a truly poor revival.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 4/26/18 at 7:54am

JudyDenmark said: "Ok, I posted earlier today that I was in your shoes of not really knowing anything about it other than the music, andI just got home from the show.

The good: I thought the dancing was excellent... it felt like I was at NYC Ballet, and as a big fan of NYC Ballet, I was more than happy to watch that style all night.I also thought that 95% of the singing was really spectacular. (I won't get into that 5% because I know it's my own irrational dislike ofone of the actor'svoices.) Also, I was in Mezzanine A5, and thought it was an absolutely flawless seat for this. I'm 5'4" and could see perfectly - there's definitely no bar in the way. In general... I give an A+ to the talent and artistic pedigree on the stage. I'll watch Amar Ramasar dance all day long - he is captivating.

But... WTF is this show?? I am trying to take it with a grain of salt since so many of the Carousel purists here have been saying that the problem is with the production/direction and not the actual show, but assuming that they didn't completely rewrite a new book and plot forthis (did they??), I find it unfathomable that this is considered a masterpiece of musical theatre, aside from thegreat score. I cringed through almost every spoken line, and have a hard time imagining that better acting or directionwould've saved it for me.It's just so, so dated.Are we supposed to find Billy and/or Julie likable??I found them both to be irredeemably awful characters. And then there's a random supernatural element with some modern snark?! I'll stop there andtry to be nice and say thatthis show is... clearly just not for me.

To sumup... I'm still glad I saw it, because I think there was a lot of artistry on that stage, and I got chills from so much ofthe dancing and singing. (Renée Fleming soaring above everyone in the "You'll Never Walk Alone" reprise at the end was thrilling.) So if you're the kind of person who wants to see some very talenteddancers and singers doing their thing, by all means go and enjoy. But if you're someone who goes more for the overall story and experience, I'd probably reconsider. I'm still scratching my head at what the hell this show even is.

Edit: Wanted to add that at the end, the guy next to me was pretty much weeping, and the people behind me were yelling "bravo!" So take or leave my comments - clearly YMMV."

Oh thank GOD I thought I was the only one!

Sorry but I didn't 'get' this show at all and I don't think it's about what's missing, it's the story. I just found the whole thing very very odd.

What is the point of it exactly?

All I took away from it was, if you're a desperate woman you turn really stupid. If you're a wife beating male criminal not only do you get into heaven, but you then get the privilege of going back to get another chance to save your daughter who's just as obnoxious, has obviously learned nothing from her fathers abysmal life choices and is following him down the exact same path???

I didn't feel any 'love' between them, she was some trollop who picked up a carny and what should've been a one night stand with a bit of rough becomes a relationship because they are both so damaged and desperate.

What was the point of the friends character? What was the point of any of it? Sorry I just don't get it.

Maybe it's a nostalgia thing or an 'era' thing and these shows that used to seem a certain way just don't mean the same to future generations. These days the 'charming' rogues have been outed for what they really are, psychopaths.

I found Dolly's storyline to be just as weird.

Are we really supposed to cheer on a sociopathic con artist who manipulates people's emotions for money and social status and think it's 'cute'? Funny we don't seem to be doing the same for Donald Trump!

Let's see how cute it is when you flash forward 6 months and go back and visit Horace after she's spent all his money, he's lost his business and she's moved onto the next sucker.

So cute...

[Lot666]

Posted: 4/26/18 at 11:58am

KathyNYC2 said: "I'm a strong believer in ignoring what you read on message boards and even with reviews. Or at least reading them without placing too much importance on them. I often enjoy things I don't expect to enjoy and dislike things that got raves. If you are interested to go, you should go and make up your own mind."

Ditto!

[pacificnorthwest]

Posted: 4/26/18 at 1:54pm

JudyDenmark said: ...To sumup... I'm still glad I saw it, because I think there was a lot of artistry on that stage, and I got chills from so much ofthe dancing and singing. (Renée Fleming soaring above everyone in the "You'll Never Walk Alone" reprise at the end was thrilling.) So if you're the kind of person who wants to see some very talenteddancers and singers doing their thing, by all means go and enjoy. But if you're someone who goes more for the overall story and experience, I'd probably reconsider. I'm still scratching my head at what the hell this show even is.

Thank you so much, Judy. I have a feeling, assessing all the various. comments here and the main thread, that I will feel much like you do. I had no idea until reading the boards that "Carousel" was such an iconic part of musical theater history. I learn a lot from the theater experts here. So I feel like I should see it for that reason alone.

Curious how long people think it will run. I've been thinking that I don't have a lot of time left to see it (I come up from DC every month or two). Part of me would like to see Travesties again tomorrow night, though I haven't even checked on tickets yet.


 

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 4/28/18 at 1:17pm

I agree on the weird cuts in the second act, particularly losing Geraniums in the Winder (put it back and cut the endless Blow High dance break, tia). As for what the show's "about", there are a lot of ways that it's purposefully conflicted and cloudy. Carrie and Julie are, in a sense, opposites, and their relationships are contrasted to illustrate two sides of love and how Carrie's "acceptable" marriage has just as many hurtful undertones as Julie's more conventionally abusive one. Carrie gets saddled with way more kids than she wants and has to put up with Enoch's self-absorption and hypocrisy. 

Something I've heard people say regarding Carousel is that it was written when slapping a woman wasn't regarded as abusive, which is really dumb because the show itself regards it as a huge offense. When Louise says it "felt like a kiss", what does she mean? Carousel frames Billy's aggression as misguided passion - he's angry, panicked, and terrified because he wants things to go well, but he doesn't have the ability to make it happen. Even with literal heavenly intervention he screws up, but the act that saves him is to convince his daughter that she's not "alone", which is something that would've saved him (consider what he says during the bench scene - "I don't need you or anyone to help me. I got it figgered out for myself. We ain't important.".

Billy's arc is all about attaining empathy, and his salvation is being able to pass it on, which is why Carousel is so interesting in terms of the current atmosphere of recognizing abuse from men, both personal and systemic. Carousel does not condone his actions, and part of its dark appeal is the way that it presents the situation without bald, friendly answers - you're supposed to go home and think about empathy, frustration, alienation, and so on. If it's unsettling that Louise says his slap felt like a kiss, that's good, because it is unsettling. She feels his intent, not his action, and that's an intense, ambiguous concept.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 4/28/18 at 1:27pm

Charley Kringas Inc said: "I agree on the weird cuts in the second act, particularly losing Geraniums in the Winder (put it back and cut the endless Blow High dance break, tia). As for what the show's "about", there are a lot of ways that it's purposefully conflicted and cloudy. Carrie and Julie are, in a sense, opposites, and their relationships are contrasted to illustrate two sides of love and how Carrie's "acceptable" marriage has just as many hurtful undertones as Julie's more conventionally abusive one. Carrie gets saddled with way more kids than she wants and has to put up with Enoch's self-absorption and hypocrisy.

Something I've heard people say regarding Carousel is that it was written when slapping a woman wasn't regarded as abusive, which is really dumb because the show itself regards it as a huge offense. When Louise says it "felt like a kiss", what does she mean? Carousel frames Billy's aggression as misguided passion - he's angry, panicked, and terrifiedbecausehe wants things to go well, but he doesn't have the ability to make it happen. Even with literal heavenly intervention he screws up, but the act that saves him is to convince his daughter that she's not "alone", which is something that would've saved him (consider what he says during the bench scene - "I don't need you or anyone to help me. I got it figgered out for myself. We ain't important.".

Billy's arc is all about attaining empathy, and his salvation is being able to pass it on, which is why Carousel is so interesting in terms of the current atmosphere of recognizing abuse from men, both personal and systemic. Carousel does not condone his actions, and part of its dark appeal is the way that it presents the situation without bald, friendly answers - you're supposed to go home and think aboutempathy, frustration, alienation, and so on. If it's unsettling that Louise says his slap felt like a kiss, that's good, because it is unsettling. She feels his intent, not his action, and that's an intense, ambiguous concept."

Well if that is what it's about this production completely fails on every level to get that across.

At a stretch I guess I can see the paralelles between Julie 'bad' relationship and Carrie's 'perfect but not so perfect' relationship, which I kind of thought was what they were trying to get across by failed miserably, but the rest of it was totally lost.

Or maybe I was just so bored by the endless dancing and ugly scenery my mind shut down completely and I just didn't care what was going on.