BRIDGES in its final week- Page 9
BRIDGES in its final week
After Eight
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/5/09
#200BRIDGES in its final week
Posted: 5/21/14 at 11:27pm
The blame game, raised now to a new level.
Everyone is getting in on the act: the creators, people in the industry, smitten admirers...
Pointing fingers of blame every which way and at all targets.
Except at the one target that deserves it.
Updated On: 5/22/14 at 11:27 PM
#201BRIDGES in its final week
Posted: 5/21/14 at 11:34pm
"I completely disagree with that assessment, qolbinau. The success of one show has nothing to do with the demise of another"
Obviously there are many factors at work here that influence the box office success of shows, so I don’t want to say that this is necessarily true in all cases. However, this is my argument of why jukebox shows can sometimes hurt the box office of shows with original scores, and the development of new work.
The first issue is that there is a finite amount of incoming revenue from theatre goers that will be put into producers’ pockets, and shows are competing against each other for audience members. Now, I realise this is not always the case because some shows (e.g., American Idiot) might bring in new audiences that would not have been to the theatre otherwise. However, for many people (e.g., some tourists) they will decide they want to see a theatre show, and then look at a list of shows (e.g., online, or at the TKTS line) and choose the show that is appealing to them. There are many reasons why certain shows might be more appealing to them than other shows. For example, they might want to see a famous star they are familiar with (e.g., Idina Menzel) over an unknown cast. Alternatively, they might want to see a show where they are familiar with the music (e.g., Jersey Boys, Beautiful, Mamma Mia). Every time somebody chooses to see a Jukebox musical over a musical with an original score, the revenue is displaced from the musical with the original score to the jukebox musical. I realise that you describe the ‘type’ of people that go to Jukebox musicals are different than the type of people that go to JRB shows, and that if the Jukebox musical option were not available they might not have decided to go to Bridges. This might be true in many cases (not at all true if the tourist had definitely decided they were going to see a show and were forced to choose a non-Jukebox musical. If there were no Jukebox musicals available they would necessarily have to choose a non-Jukebox musical in this case). However, if there were a case where someone wouldn’t see a non-Jukebox musical I don’t think it’s as easy to dismiss them as the ‘type’ of person that wouldn’t see a JRB show without examining why this is the case. In my opinion, the reason why this would be the case is because of their experience consuming media (e.g., the type of theatre they go to such a jukebox musicals, or concerts) where they are used to being rewarded with familiarity, rather than having to sit down and listen carefully to new work. I am afraid that this will become the norm.
The second issue is that because Broadway is a commercial enterprise, investors would generally want to put money in shows where the risk of losing their money is low. From historical box office successes there are a few factors that seem to be consistently related to box office success. For example, a major Hollywood star seems to generally cause higher ticket sales than unknown Broadway performers. Every time a Jukebox musical is financially successful, I think it adds to a thought that one way to reduce the risk of losing money is to invest in a jukebox musical. Once this idea is prevalent enough it makes sense to me that when choosing to invest money in a show, investors will choose the jukebox musical over an original musical because it is perceived to be less risky. As you said, people will invest in shows that they believe in or that they think can make them money.
The argument that a show with an original score is better than a jukebox musical is a separate one, which I would be happy to have. However, I think first it should be established whether jukebox musicals can impact the revenue and development of a show with an original score. If jukebox musicals don’t impact the revenue and development of shows with original scores then it doesn’t matter which one is better, really.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
Updated On: 5/21/14 at 11:34 PM
#202BRIDGES in its final week
Posted: 5/22/14 at 1:07am
You're making a hell of a lot of assumptions about audiences that aren't necessarily true. It also doesn't explain the success of a large number of shows, or the failure of many shows that are jukebox musicals or had celebrities in them or had formulas that had worked before. Cry-Baby was based on a popular John Waters film, just like Hairspray was. Hairspray ran for years and made a lot of money, Cry-Baby closed after a few months. And what about the spate of flop jukebox musicals in the mid-2000s: Ring of Fire, The Times They Are A-Changin', All Shook Up, Good Vibrations, Lennon? You can find a counter-argument to literally every argument you are making, because like I said, there isn't any one thing that guarantees success. Even casting a movie star...Cripple of Inishmaan isn't exactly selling out every night, but Daniel Radcliffe is a huge name and his face is all over the marketing.
Most of the top 10 longest-running shows of all time have scores that were exclusively written for the theater. It isn't the only factor that goes into success or failure...I don't really hear people saying they don't want to go see The Book of Mormon because they don't know every word to every song going in.
To make the argument that audiences are choosing one show over a specific other one (to the detriment of the specific show they didn't choose) and would choose to see the show they aren't seeing if the show they do see didn't exist is ridiculous and completely based in hypothetical reasoning. Having worked at TKTS, I can pretty solidly say that a lot of the out-of-towners who aren't "theater people" who wait on the line don't go through the list of shows to see...they get on the line knowing what they want to see because their friend back in Michigan saw Chicago and loved it, or they saw the movie of Mamma Mia! and loved it, or they saw Jersey Boys on tour and really, really want to see it again because they just enjoyed it so much. Most of them probably haven't even heard of The Bridges of Madison County and would be surprised when you told them that a musical exists based on that movie with Meryl Streep.
There are lots of valid conversations to have about why Bridges failed, or why any Broadway show fails, but one show's premature closure doesn't mean the impending death of original material on Broadway.
#203BRIDGES in its final week
Posted: 5/22/14 at 2:35am
"Pointing fingers of blame every which way and at all targets.
Except at the one target that deserves it."
Nah, we blamed you a few pages back. 
#204BRIDGES in its final week
Posted: 5/22/14 at 4:47am
"You're making a hell of a lot of assumptions about audiences that aren't necessarily true. It also doesn't explain the success of a large number of shows, or the failure of many shows that are jukebox musicals or had celebrities in them or had formulas that had worked before."
As the first sentence said in my previous post, there are many factors at work that influence the box office success of shows, so I don’t want to say that this is necessarily true in all cases. We are only speaking generally here.
"To make the argument that audiences are choosing one show over a specific other one (to the detriment of the specific show they didn't choose) and would choose to see the show they aren't seeing if the show they do see didn't exist is ridiculous and completely based in hypothetical reasoning. Having worked at TKTS, I can pretty solidly say that a lot of the out-of-towners who aren't "theater people" who wait on the line don't go through the list of shows to see...they get on the line knowing what they want to see because their friend back in Michigan saw Chicago and loved it, or they saw the movie of Mamma Mia! and loved it, or they saw Jersey Boys on tour and really, really want to see it again because they just enjoyed it so much. "
Broadway, like any commercial environment, is a competitive market and it is naive to think that shows aren’t competing against each other. Working at the TKTS booth, you must know there are people standing by the signs being paid to promote certain shows over other shows to people who go and look at the signs. You can see countless posts on this forum where people have to choose between shows because of limited time or money (in fact, there is one on the main board right now). In the word of mouth cases you mention, you think that if “Chicago”, “Mamma Mia!” or “Jersey Boys” didn't exist they wouldn't be talking about another show? Sometimes maybe they wouldn't. As I said in my previous post, I don’t doubt that certain shows might be bringing in new audiences that might not have gone to the theatre otherwise. However, if every jukebox musical closed tomorrow I don’t believe for a second a substantial portion of that revenue wouldn’t be spent attending other Broadway shows with original scores. Anytime you or someone else has ever had a conversation with someone about which Broadway show they should see is testament to its competitive nature. If all the jukebox musicals were eliminated, they could never be an option and the choice would be a show with an original score.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
Updated On: 5/22/14 at 04:47 AM
#205BRIDGES in its final week
Posted: 5/26/14 at 5:54am
Kind of off topic, but I was listening to Kelli O'Hara's solo album "Always" today (from 2011) and totally forgot that she sang "Another Life" from Bridges! I knew I've heard it before, just totally forgot she put it on there.
Updated On: 5/26/14 at 05:54 AM
#206BRIDGES in its final week
Posted: 5/26/14 at 11:04am
Thanks Promises for this info. One of my favorites from the show and I didn't know Kelli performed it on her solo album.
Another Life by Kelli O'Hara
Sutton Ross
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/20/13
rjm516
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/24/09
#208BRIDGES in its final week
Posted: 5/26/14 at 9:23pm
Oh wow that ("Another Life") on Kelli's album doesn't even sound like her! I'm not used to hearing her sound so...casual? It's pretty but wow such a different style for her.
#209BRIDGES in its final week
Posted: 5/27/14 at 11:39am90% of that album is like that. (: It reminds me of Cheno's "Let Yourself Go" album. Some fun songs but mostly very relaxing and soothing songs.
