Would anyone want to see a revival of Torch Song Trilogy?

[rorschach37]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 11:45am

I've read the script several times and just love it to death. I'd kill to see it return to the Great White Way. Thoughts?

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 11:46am

That would all depend on Harvey wanting to mount it again, I'm sure. I think the show is going to be 30 years old next year? Maybe it'll happen!

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 11:47am

One of the best plays I've ever seen in NY (with the OBC) ... but I think the material is dated now.

And I'm not sure how well it would work as a period piece. It's not just clothes and styles that have changed, it's people's sensibilities.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 11:48am

Yeah, the unprotected anal sex in the pitch-black back room of a gay club might play a little differently nowadays.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 11:53am

I don't know that I agree with that, best.

I think the material has kind of come back around. The AIDS crisis (which came after these plays were written) did more to damage the viability of revisiting this work cause, for a long while, how could any gay play NOT address AIDS?? But now, the crisis has shifted into management, and the focus on the gay movement right now is on building families (of all sorts). And that's really what Torch Song is about. Finding and keeping a gay identity, while trying to build something that resembles a traditional family.

This piece means a great deal to me. When I was fifteen (and just starting to figure out who I was as a gay person), I was cast as David, the adopted son in Act 3, in a community theatre production (with Blanche Lewis! Richard Lewis' mother...big thrill for me!). And as I grew older, I assumed the that play would no longer be relevant. But I picked it up recently, and was struck by how, though now a period piece, the themes resonate strongly with the movement today.

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 12:01pm

Honestly, robbie, I would love to see my hunch proven wrong. I just think the society at large has taken a giant step backwards since then. Things that should be shocking aren't, and things that aren't all that shocking freak a lot of people out. Since a lot of Torch Song's humor and heart plays out of those "shocks," I think it would be a bumpy ride.

For example, I could never see "All In the Family" being produced as a TV show today and getting the response that it got back in the early '70s.

Times have changed ... (sadly?).

Updated On: 11/30/11 at 12:01 PM

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 12:11pm

Oh...I think what would have seemed shocking about the piece in the early 80's would have mellowed with time. But, I think what replaces that is a really deep sense of great family drama.

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 12:15pm

I just think part of what was so refreshing about Torch Song was the shock value presented in an accessible (more or less surprisingly) way. If the shock is gone ... and I actually think it's been replaced with either disinterest or disdain ... the family drama won't be perceived as being so deep or great.

I hope I'm wrong, actually.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 12:19pm

Weren't the same type of arguments made about THE NORMAL HEART, though? Wondering if it would be too dated and if it would resonate with audiences now?

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 12:21pm

Good argument! I hope you're right.

(I just have so little faith in audiences today.)

[Ed_Mottershead]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 12:43pm

IMO, finding an age-appropriate Arnold would present an enormous challenge. I saw the show 11 times when it was new and have nothing but fond memories of it. Most of the cast would repair to Ted Hooks afterwards and that was part of the fun of the show. Ethel Merman was in the audience one night and she obviously was not enjoying herself. Apparently she stopped by Harvey's dressing room afterwards and said something to the effect of "I thought your play was a piece of ****, but what the **** do I know?"

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 12:54pm

LOL

They should have hung that outside the theatre as a pull-quote:

"This play is a piece of ****, but what the **** do I know!" - Ethel Merman.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 1:01pm

Plus...to make it viable, you'd probably need some star casting. Like Zachary Quinto and Neil Patrick Harris as Arnold and Ed.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 1:12pm

I think it would play like gangbusters, from the drag and International Stud scenes at the beginning through the gay bashing, raising a kid and demanding equal respect from his mother at the end.

The difference between "dated" and "timely" is often a good cast and a smart director.

Is RobbieJ too old to play Arnold?

And is Stritch too old to play his mother?

[newintown]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 1:35pm

It certainly would be a radically different animal than it was originally; the New York City of Torch Song is long dead and buried. The play, in its original incarnation, was exciting, vibrant, new, and a portrait of New York gay life in the late 70s.

It would now be a rather quaint period piece. Even if an actor with Fierstein's unique persona, passion, and larger than life qualities could be found (which I kind of doubt), the utterly contemporary urgency of the original would be impossible to match, leaving us with an experience more like the relatively bloodless film (which is the version most people know, having no idea of the wild theatricality of the original).

Of course, to those who never saw the original, none of this would matter. And I imagine those of us who did see it will be in the VAST minority.
Updated On: 11/30/11 at 01:35 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 1:38pm

I agree. The people who will automatically love it are the people who were there to begin with. It's tripping all of their nostalgia buttons and passing for "current" and "timely."

But it's far from "automatic love" for anyone under 35. I hope they take to it, but I don't think it will have that much impact.

[newintown]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 1:46pm

Here's my question - instead of idly musing on reviving plays that were great moments in their own time, why don't we insist on new plays NOW that would be THIS TIME'S Torch Song Trilogy? That is - live; don't revive.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 2:01pm

To answer your question, newintown, I would say Sons of the Prophet is a very worthy successor to Torch Song in some ways. I think there are some really exciting plays being written (certainly more exciting than the musical landscape right now). Currently, I'm involved in two gay-themed shows (one a musical in its very early reading stages; one, a play that's about to open in which I'll be replacing an actor...terrifying prospect that one) that are really interesting and exciting.

And to answer Joey's questions, no. I'm not too old to play Arnold (at least if I shave the beard). But I'd rather have Lavin as my mother.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 2:10pm

It's funny, I don't think of any of the humor as being "shocking," even when it was brand new. I think there were punch lines that were surprising ("Oh my Godddddd!") but I always felt Harvey's goal was to reflect the original audience's life back to them, and then when it moved uptown to show the new audience their similarity to gay men. The only pop culture equivalent of such characters today are Cam and Mitchell on Modern Family.

I thought the same thing about the Normal Heart revival, newintown. I vehemently disagree with Kramer's central theme in that play, (did then, do now) but that production was a revelation. Fortunately, revivals often reveal nuances previous productions did not. And thank goodness Shakespeare gets revived once in a while.

As for the Merman quote, which Harvey tells, I believe he asked her what she thought when she came backstage to visit after telling her what an inspiration he had been to her and then she said something to the effect of, "I thought it was a piece of **** but everybody around me was crying their eyes out so what the **** do I know?"

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 2:10pm

For the mother I'd love to see Judith Light.

And I adore SONS OF THE PROPHET. It's a "gay" play that's not about "being gay" which is so refreshing to see.

[newintown]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 2:21pm

I guess when I mention a Torch Song for our time, I'm musing on the kind of play that touches the public and their nerves in such as way as to be wildly of its time - along the lines of Angels In America.

As good as Sons of the Prophet may be (and I haven't seen it yet), I haven't heard anything that indicates it's going to be that kind of succes fou.

Discussing revivals of plays will always involve this kind of disagreement - there will be those who see revivals as pale imitations of a vital original vs. those who want to see the same things over and over.

[Q]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 2:28pm

"Is RobbieJ too old to play Arnold?"

That is exactly what went through my mind when I saw him appear in this thread. I would do whatever it took to get to NYC to see it.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 2:35pm

As a cultural touchstone, no...Sons of the Prophet is not in the same league as Torch Song. But as a work of art? Yes. Absolutely. And I say that without hesitation. It's beautiful.

And you're all very kind to think of me for Arnold. I'm sure there is a small regional theatre somewhere that might let me audition for it before I age into Norma Desmond.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 3:21pm

IMHO, it's not so much how "shocking" or not the material might be, but the simple fact that the Broadway *industry* has changed since the play was first produced. It's now all about having an instant hit, a guaranteed profit. TORCH SONG, when put in that perspective, probably wouldnt do terribly well.

Off Broadway, though? Might stand a better chance.

[iluvtheatertrash]

Posted: 11/30/11 at 3:21pm

I've been praying for this for a while.