Michael Lee Brown is SUBLIME -- but DEH, the show...?- Page 3

[Seperite]

Posted: 8/25/17 at 4:41am

Surprised to hear all the criticism levied at the lack of comeuppance. Haven't we all seen enough Disney movies, ABC after school specials, action movies, and their morally equivalent parallels in the world of Broadway to not need yet another story where the good people prevail and evil fails? I personally liked the fact that EH hatched and executed a diabolical and deranged plot and (largely) got away with it. I don't need to have my own morals validated by seeing him get punished -- it's art, meant to make you think, and meant to move you, but not necessarily to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

The story is absurdly unbelievable, and that may have contributed to why I couldn't get emotionally invested...the idea that even disconnected parents could be so easily duped made suspension of disbelief difficult, and the many subpar performances didn't make it any easier. The motivation for the big reveal seemed forced and unearned -- I was hoping for a much bigger, grander, and smarter event to topple the incredible enterprise that had been built; breaking down in a moment of stress just seemed like lazy writing. And, of course, the Murphy parents essentially walking off in a huff, and Zoe reacting by effectively saying "well, that was weird...let's go for a walk in the orchard!" was a deeply dissatisfying denoument. For writers who clearly put a lot of thought into creating a deeply complex character with far more heft than you expect to find in a musical, it just seemed like they ran out of steam or ideas as to how to wrap the whole thing up. It left me dissatisfied not because he doesn't get punished, but because the conclusion felt like a throwaway -- not nearly as thoughtful or intelligent as a piece as carefully constructed as this deserved.


But perhaps the story can be taken as a metaphor -- it's not about socially anxious kids and grieving parents per se, but about human beings' willingness to cling to even preposterous stories if they make us feel better about the difficulties we encounter in our lives. (You could argue that that's what impels people to continue to be religious or superstitious, even in an age of widespread education, knowledge and enlightenment.) The Trump phenomenon is something of a manifestation of this -- a huckster and charlatan comes along and, tapping into people's romantic associations with nostalgia, weaves fanciful tales about how he's going to make everyone's lives better by invoking, and promising to bring back glorified images of an incredible past. A large segment of the population recognizes that the emperor is not actually wearing any clothes, but the rest of society turns a blind eye, willfully suspending skepticism and the evident reasons for disbelief because buying into the story enables you to push your problems away and feel so very good. The storyteller, who may have had innocuous or even magnanimous motivations at the start, begins to get addicted to the newfound power and endless adulation his fibbing has gotten him. He finds it impossible to stop, until it all comes crashing down.

 

Updated On: 8/25/17 at 04:41 AM

[Seperite]

Posted: 8/25/17 at 5:15am

Plotline is actually quite similar to "Can't Buy Me Love," the 80s movie that made Patrick Dempsey a star. Social outcast comes up with a seemingly harmless scam that makes him the most popular kid in the school. He gets The Girl he always dreamed of and all seems right with the world. But then he becomes too addicted to the popularity, and mistreats the only friend he had in the pre-cool days. The turning point comes when he publicizes a private poem The Girl had written him, mortifying The Girl -- very analogous to EH's revelation of the note "Connor" wrote. Eventually, he reconciles with his one friend when they reminisce about the fact that the friend helped him when he fell out of a tree and broke his arm. The Girl ultimately reconciles with him when she recognizes his worth, despite the lying, the revelation of the poem, and the fact that he was willing to do anything to maintain his popularity.

The more I think of it, the more I'm certain the writers of DEH were heavily influenced by this movie.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 8/25/17 at 6:47am

bdn223 said: "Bibliot

I am not saying that a show must have a likable protagonist, I am saying a show should call a spade a spade and an unlikable protagonist/anti-hero must face the consequences for his/her actions.

Sweeney Todd accidentally kills his wife, the reason he started killing in the first place, and is then killed by Tobey. Natasha is ruined and almost dies, only to be saved by Pierre. Hamilton is historical fiction, but Aaron Burr was the reasoning for the 12th amendment, which in turn forced him out of the Vice Presidency. Then after that Thomas Jefferson tried to have Burr convicted for Treason.....so yeah I'd consider that resolution. Diana in Next to Normal leaves her family as she realizes the toll her illness has taken on them. Phantom looses Christine and is forced to flee. In the original story dies loveless and alone, which is a cruel fate as love is his sole motivation. Harold Hill is arrested. The Emcee is killed by the Nazi's. Jonas (Leap of Faith) finds the error of his ways after he falls in love with Marla and finds compassion for Jake leaving the revival business for a true believer. Dewey is fired for impersonating a teacher. Frank goes looses everyone he loves then goes jail (Catch Me If You Can). 

Evan.....looses the girl? He doesn't get the scholarship? The Murphy family are the one's who ultimately face the consequences of Evan's actions, not him. 

 

The only musical one can actually argue does not have a resolution for its unlikable protagonists is Follies, which simply ends with  Buddy and Sally, and Phyllis and Ben, simply leaving the theater and moving on with their lives. The difference is that "life happens and its pointless to dwell on the ghosts of the past" is very much the point of the show. 

 

"

Many of these are flawed -

Burr is the antagonist

Diana leaves her family because she believes she can get better on her own and is unhappy in her situation. Where is her "punishment"?

The emcee is not the protagonist, either. Nazis also aren't punishment...unless you want to say everyone that dies by their hands were all deserving of punishment.

Harold Hill is arrested for about 10 seconds AND he gets to keep the girl!

I'm not saying this is a perfect show, and it's fine that you might not like it...but your proof is inaccurate.

Punishment is suppose to be so the wrongdoers learn from their errors, not as a strictly punitive, vengeful action.  This is the route taken.

Updated On: 8/25/17 at 06:47 AM

[herewegoabc]

Posted: 8/25/17 at 7:37am

My main problem with the end is that the orchard allegedly "cured" the Murphy parents and brought them together. I find that highly unbelievable and feel like it was just an easy out for Zoe to say- I forgive you because you fixed my parents. I personally do not think Cynthia and Larry would be fixed at all. Statistics say that losing a child greatly increases chance for divorce, and they already seemed to be close to that edge before the loss if you believe Zoe's statement that "they can't stand each other."

However, I'm not really sure what, if anything, we are supposed to hope happened to Evan. I think the Murphys not blowing his cover is one of the more believable things that happen in the musical. They just lost their son to suicide. They found a note that reads EXACTLY like a suicide note and easily believe that that's exactly what it is. When they later find out that it was not written by their son, obviously they are very rightfully devastated/angry/upset/whatever. Their life had essentially just been destroyed for the second time in however many months.

But revealing the truth about Evan, that note, The Connor Project? I am sure they had enough sense to realize that if Evan wrote that note that he was, or at least was at one point, suicidal. They are not going to make things worse for a suicidal child after they literally just lost their own that way.

Heidi, I do believe is a good mother who tries her hardest. But the part of this show that bothers me the most is when she finds out Evan has stopped taking his meds and tells him that she is PROUD of him for "not needing them."

Updated On: 8/25/17 at 07:37 AM

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 8/25/17 at 8:31am

herewegoabc said: "My main problem with the end is that the orchard allegedly "cured" the Murphy parents and brought them together. I find that highly unbelievable and feel like it was just an easy out for Zoe to say- I forgive you because you fixed my parents. I personally do not think Cynthia and Larry would be fixed at all. Statistics say that losing a child greatly increases chance for divorce, and they already seemed to be close to that edge before the loss if you believe Zoe's statement that "they can't stand each other."

However, I'm not really sure what, if anything, we are supposed to hope happened to Evan. I think the Murphys not blowing his cover is one of the more believable things that happen in the musical. They just lost their son to suicide. They found a note that reads EXACTLY like a suicide note and easily believe that that's exactly what it is. When they later find out that it was not written by their son, obviously they are very rightfully devastated/angry/upset/whatever. Their life has essentially just been destroyed for the second time in however many months.

But revealing the truth about Evan, that note, The Connor Project? I am sure they had enough sense to realize that if Evan wrote that note that he was, or at least was at one point, suicidal. They are not going to make things worse for a suicidal child after they literally just lost their own that way.

Heidi, I do believe is a good mother who tries her hardest. But the part of this show that bothers me the most is when she founds out Evan has stopped taking his meds and tells him that she is PROUD of him for "not needing them."

"

I totally agree with your post. The Murphy's have a lot of empathy and when they realize the lie they realize that all those things Evan said about Connor were really about himself: suicidal, lonely, mentally troubled. They aren't the type of people who would do something that would drive Evan off the cliff as well.

As for Heidi that part of the show doesn't really bother me because Heidi is extremely overwhelmed by her very troubled son and her lack of resources to take care of all his needs. It's believable that she'd be deluded into thinking that maybe Evan's issues are solved because he has friends and things to do. I also believe that after the lie is revealed Heidi immediately puts her son back in therapy, because at the end of the show Evan is still writing those letters to himself.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/25/17 at 10:44am

DEH didn't have a note of truth to it when it came to the end.  It doesn't matter whether he lied to get into her pants or not...the devastation of this particular lie for that family would be...Jesus H. Christ, I find it unbearable to think about. 

And that's only a part of the failings I find in the book.  By the end of the show, I was confused, angry and disgusted.  I was actually stunned at the carelessness of addressing responsibility and potential consequences.  It really seemed like there was an intentional choice to either cut or avoid vital information in order to cultivate a tween idol musical.  Much more so than the criticism I've read of Next to Normal or Wicked.  To me, watching this show win Tonys for Best Musical and Book was liking watching the 2016 election results all over again (or to a lesser degree, the 2007 Tony awards).  I'll give it credit for great performances, mostly solid score, clever lighting and staging.  

and Evan is not a villain for being a mentally ill kid with social anxiety.

Sorry, but the writers and director really dropped the ball on suggesting mental illness.  They attempted to make a really big deal of it at the start, then the therapy/medication aspect sort of fizzled out until it was suddenly raised for a totally contrived moment of conflict between Evan and his mother that didn't make much sense.  

As for Heidi that part of the show doesn't really bother me because Heidi is extremely overwhelmed by her very troubled son and her lack of resources to take care of all his needs. It's believable that she'd be deluded into thinking that maybe Evan's issues are solved because he has friends and things to do.

No, it's really not believable because the show never really suggests that, ESPECIALLY if she were concerned about her lack of resources.  If his mother was all over him and so involved in his therapy and medication to the point of insisting he do his "homework" and attending his sessions and taking his meds, when did she just stop paying attention for MONTHS that he'd stopped it all.  There are co-pays, appointment bookings, subscription refills...stuff that is often hard to budget and pay for as a single parent.  I didn't buy that second act contrived conflict AT ALL. And what about the issue of fraud?  The show leans heavily on responsibly using social media, but nobody mentions the potential consequences of online crowdfunding built on a platform of lies?  No mention what could have happened to Evan and (more likely) his mother had the donors discovered the truth?  In the end, I was just disgusted and nauseous.  I felt like the creatives were as careless as their protagonist.

 

On another note, people still don't know the difference between "lose" and "loose"?  Or that you NEVER use an apostrophe to pluralize nouns (even when it is a proper noun, like a name)?

Updated On: 8/25/17 at 10:44 AM

[RaisedOnMusicals]

Posted: 8/25/17 at 11:09am

I'd be willing to bet good money that if was possible to do a metrics analysis of the average number of words per post re every show ever discussed on BWW (which obviously it's not), you'd find that DEH ether leads in that category or is right up there. Understand that I'm not saying it's the most talked about show, it's just that when we all write about it we have a lot to say, good or bad. 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/25/17 at 11:26am

LOL  You should have seen this place when Wicked opened.  Nothing has come close to blowing up BWW like Wicked.

Oh...and ask any question about Follies.  You will get every possible detail from every production, anecdotes, character analyses, memoirs, costume color debates, and so on and so on and so on...  Follies fans love to pontificate.

Updated On: 8/25/17 at 11:26 AM

[MyLife]

Posted: 8/25/17 at 12:21pm

Mister Matt, I've never agreed with one singular post so much, regarding both your opinion on the show and on the lack of the proper grammar on BWW entirely.

[theatreguy12]

Posted: 8/25/17 at 9:55pm

Why would anyone be stunned by the careless handling of responsibility and potential consequences in this musical?  I mean, this is 2017....in the US of A.   Enabling is  the way of the land nowadays.  And you certainly can't hold people accountable or responsible anymore, or give them the consequences they so often deserve, because you might hurt their "wittle feewings."

If the way this musical ends is seen as a flaw because of the way it addresses responsibility and consequences, well, welcome to America, folks.  It's actually quite authentic.  Why try to explain it?

Personally I really liked the musical because I accepted it for what it was.  An entertaining showcase for some wonderful performances.  Was it always believable?  No.  But what musical is?   You could find fault with everything if you analyze it to death.  

And for the responsibility factor and/or consequences?  

Perhaps it was brushed over and maybe not completely addressed in the way some felt it should have been.  But even if remained in that brushed over state, that's pretty representative of what we see in the country around us nowadays anyways. 

I will say that I had moments of connection to Evan myself. Which is maybe why it had a cathartic impact on me.  And there were definitely people in the theater around us who obviously were moved by it too. Even despite the "unbelievability" of some of the action, or the lack of consequences and responsibility therein.