Interview: Julie Dumais Osborne and PHATT al on Second City's 50th Anniversary

This summer, Second City Toronto celebrated its 50th anniversary with a weekend of parties, panels, and opportunities for alumni and fans to reconnect. The venerable comedy institution has a lot to look forward to, including making use of its new home at 1 York Street, upcoming classes and revues, and a branch finally opening up in New York City. BroadwayWorld Toronto spoke to Second City Artistic Director Julie Dumais Osborne and cast member and instructor PHATT al about the celebrations, what Second City means to Toronto, and what’s next for the company as it marks the big 5-0.

BWW: It's very exciting that Second City Toronto is celebrating its fiftieth anniversary! There must have been something in the water in Toronto in the early 1970s; so many artistic companies are now hitting the mid-century mark. What do you think has made Second City Toronto such an impactful and long-lasting organization?

Julie: I would say it's the continued sense of play. We're like music, in the sense that we are constantly recreating how we play, keeping up with the zeitgeist of what is happening today not only from a news standpoint, but from a cultural standpoint. Language and society have both radically changed from 1973 to today; we're still doing comedy, but comedy is so vastly different. The goal, though, is still the same: to have a good time and make people laugh with the tools we have today, which are amazing.

PHATT al: I think from when I joined Second City to now, learning how to really interact with people and just have a good time with not only the other performers, but with the audience too has changed, and it's made me change also. I really appreciate the way things change and the better ways we can interact with each other. I think that constant interaction is not just a reflection of the time, it's a continuous conversation about it. That's the magic of Second City; it’s something that we call process, how we make our shows in conversation with the audience. Shows are developed live with the input of real human beings who just happened to show up and buy a ticket, either through what they offer in terms of suggestions, or just energy and response. That's what shapes what the final show is, and even the final show continues to evolve and grow. So nothing is static. It's such an alive thing. And I think that's what gives it that longevity. It can't become outdated, because it is always at the moment.

BWW: There are some aspects of comedy that are really timeless, but at the same time nothing dates faster than comedy. And things that were funny 5 years ago are no longer necessarily funny now, as our social mores change and evolve. Can you tell me how you’ve experienced this evolution in the way you create comedy and play?

Julie: [PHATT al] has such a great arc because you've done it at 2 different points in time completely.

PHATT al: Yeah. For me, I remember when I first started at Second City, it was very regimented. For example, in how women dressed on the stage. They needed to wear a certain type of clothing. And now when we're dressing, it's like, what do you like to wear? We're going to dress you according to what you like to wear, according to who you are, as opposed to a standard, traditional Second City way of dressing. I think it's made us, as performers, feel even more empowered, to say: “This is me. This is how I am; this is my style.” That evolution has been great; it's one of those things that may seem silly, but it's a reflection of who I am.

And the zeitgeist of who I am, and the zeitgeist of who the performers are, melds into each show because we're writing the show along with the audience, along with our production team. The shows are very personal to us, because they reflect who we are. Our cast composition is very different now than it was once. There's no rule anymore that there has to be this many of this type of people; instead, we are a reflection of our city. Our city has changed. And it's changing and growing. That's what I really love about improv in general and working at Second City, and presenting in front of audiences.

For me, I've seen the audiences also start to change and be more diverse. That's been amazing for me, to be able to present pieces that I know members of the audience think, “oh, I can see myself reflected in that!” I think that's vitally important, because I experienced that back when I first came in. Kevin Vidal, an amazing performer, had this piece called Black. When I saw that on the Second City stage I was blown away, because I felt like Kevin was just talking to me. I walked out and I was like, I didn't know they could do that at Second City, because I just thought you had to do old people white humor. And it excited me so much to think, one day I could get on stage and have an audience member have an experience like that with what I write. Hopefully it's happened.

Julie: Oh, I'm sure it has. You had a scene in the last revue where I sat in the audience and felt people go, “that's my grandma.”

PHATT al: Yeah. Nkasi [Ogbonnah] came up with that, and any time Nkasi comes up with the premise, I say I'll do whatever you ask.

BWW: I've seen a number of the more recent shows, and I notice very much that you are each bringing yourselves into the roles. There's a point in each show where you introduce yourselves to the audience and it's not just that you're playing characters, but we can see that these are real people with real and a varied set of experiences on stage as well behind them.

PHATT al: If you look at the archive shows, Second City has always been like that. Which is interesting. because you look and you see Mike Myers as a kid and his take on his family, what Toronto was like, and then fast forward to now and you see who we are and our families and what Toronto is like. I think that's always been the great cultural connection for Second City, again, that we are a reflection of our of our city. The actors are from here and we are speaking to the times, but from a Toronto-centric state of mind. If you go to Chicago, it's a Chicago-centric state of mind. In New York, when it opens up, it will be in a New York-centric state of mind. So you're getting these moments in time. Each of these shows are little time capsules, and they're amazing.

BWW: Is there anything uniquely Toronto that jumps out at you about something that you've performed in the time that you've been at Second City?

PHATT al: Yeah, I would say so; interestingly enough, the piece called “Grandma.” When I was a kid, I used to go to New York a lot, and I used to be so fascinated by New York because it was a culturally diverse Mecca, right? And I used to think, New York is so cool. And fast forward and I look at Toronto and I'm like, Toronto is such a cool city because of the amalgamation of people that are here. Growing up, I didn't think about this, but I experienced every culture, and it wasn't until I left Toronto and went to different places that I realized, not everybody gets to meet and befriend people from all over the place and go to their houses and eat different food. It was just the way things were here. And that's kind of the same vibe that I have when I'm performing here at Second City. I'm playing with my friends and I'm learning so much; that is the cultural mosaic of Toronto, unique and quite beautiful. Traveling has really opened that up to me.

Julie: Speaking of New York, Second City is opening a new location there in the fall. It’s very exciting.

BWW: How does it feel to bring Second City to a place that considers itself “First City”?

Julie: There's a lot of good jokes about that, but I think it's all the things that I've been talking about. Yes, there are hyper specific references to a place or reflections of a specific community, but when it's an authentic human experience, that resonates. We have a lot of folks come from out of town and Second City in Toronto is a destination. There is so much that is iconic about SCTV and the Canadian comedy history. So people come here from elsewhere. It still hits, because the moments are truthful and the comedy is sincere and it's honest, and even when it's silly, it's coming from a place where you can relate to, the fundamental humanity of it, right? I think that speaks to people regardless of where you're from.

PHATT al: Everybody in their city has a public transit. So when we mentioned the TTC, they're like, I get it.

BWW: What's it's been like being in the new purpose-built space at One York Street?

Julie: We love it. We're so lucky to have a home like this. We welcome students into this space too. Our training center goes all the way around. The theaters are gorgeous. When do you get a space like that to perform comedy, that just elevates it in a professional way? It’s also a space that is physically accessible, where we have audio supports. These are things that we have learned to do without, but that have excluded portions of our audience over time. To be able to set something up from the beginning to make it welcoming for as many people as possible was so important. For example, we have a lift for the stage now; that was always a problem, which made it hard for people who couldn't walk up stairs.

PHATT al: Having the training center with the stages is very fun for me. It’s fun for me to be running from my dressing room, passing classrooms and students and saying “What's up?” to people. They're like, “Show’s going on?” and I’m like, “Yup, jumping up on stage!” It takes away the “they're up there and we're down here” mentality, and the people who are training at the training center can see how we do what we do. You know, I learned from Second City. I went through the training center. I did their conservatory program, specialty classes, all of that stuff. And you always felt a bit of a disconnect just because the stage was over there and we were over here. It’s just really great to be between scenes, run to the bar to get a drink and say “what's up” to students.

Julie: You're still actively teaching while you're on stage. We have two cast members who are part of our active faculty right now, and that's magic for students. To get to be so close to that creative energy and to watch. I know there are students who have the same experience you had with Kevin when they go in and watch you perform. And then you're there hanging out after the show. We have this beautiful social space we didn't used to have, which is incredible. Our restaurant partners are in the process of doing a relaunch to that space. We're just so spoiled for having everything in one fantastic shiny new location.

PHATT al: And the view!

Julie: Love Park? What a treat! It's quite beautiful. And speaking of the technological capacities of our spaces, we’re able to treat comedy with that same degree of serious consideration for all the production elements, to really create something that feels like an experience. Nothing's an afterthought, like the amazing set design, the sound, the lighting in the buildings, the ability to move in any area of the space. The sight lines in that room are great regardless of where you are. It was a long time getting here.

BWW: Well, you know; by the time you're 50 years old, it's time to be treated with a little bit of respect, right?

PHATT al: Yeah!

Julie: I like that. I hope the same is true for people.

BWW: I have to admit I did laugh when you introduced your new space as the “only building that's not going to be torn down for condos because it's already condos.”

Julie: We learned.

PHATT al: Yeah. The other thing is that we come out, and it's like, all right, people live here.

Julie: You're literally part of the community at this point. People are living above you and you're performing below.

BWW: Speaking of the community, could you tell me a little bit more about the educational opportunities? I know that you have a ton of classes and even kids’ programs.

Julie: Oh, wow. Do we ever! We have 9 classrooms operating here and we offer courses in everything, writing, improv, stand up, acting. Our youth programming is expanding this fall. We are offering summer camps currently; we do that all the time. We also do winter break and March break camps. So it's comedy camps with an improvisational component in the morning and then some introductory writing skills in the afternoon. This fall, we are launching the Teen Ensemble, which is a more advanced level of training for teens. Our youth and teen classes are actually getting longer, and we are offering a greater variety of those starting this fall. But whether you're interested in this professionally or recreationally, regardless of your age or level of skill, we’ve probably got the perfect class for you. Is it too much of a sales pitch? I believe in it, though. I really do.

We even offer anxiety classes. Just a sort of gentler approach for those who know that going in, it's going to be a little scary. Not that it isn't for everybody, but we have purpose-built classes that take those fears into account and create a working environment for that.

We have a much more professional stream, the conservatory, that's sort of our capstone signature program. In that program students get to learn how to create a show like they would on the main stage, so they learn about our archives and about the types of scenes that traditionally happened in the Second City show. And then, in the second half of the program, they are working together as an ensemble with a director to create an original revue that then gets staged in the John Candy Box Theatre, which by the way is another real little jewel, a space like that for student performance. It's intimate. It's beautiful. The lighting is gorgeous and in terms of entrances, exits and stage layout, it mirrors in a smaller way what you’d get on a resident stage, working with directors who are largely alumni talent as well.

PHATT al: For me as a student, it was amazing to come in and have seen shows and then be taught by the people that I saw in the shows. My first teacher was Kevin Frank from Kidstreet.

And I remember working with so many of the actors that I'd seen on the stages, and knowing that what they were telling me was their own experience going through this place and moving forward into professional capacities. I love teaching while I'm performing; it’s great for me to reconnect with what I've learned and then bring it back to the stage. I let my students know that what I've learned here in the classes, I literally do on stage, so, they know that what they're learning from me can translate into the professional realm, or that you can just take the lessons that you learn from improv into your regular life.

BWW: It's that cycle of connection and mentorship that you were talking about, being in the building and being able to connect with people while you're performing, connect with people after you perform. Using that to feed into your own performance.

PHATT al: It's true. It really is a full circle.

BWW: And do you see a lot of students come back and progress through the classes?

PHATT al: It's amazing, because a lot of times students will start at Second City, then go out into the wider comedy community. So it's great to see people taking what they learned from Second City and then doing sketch comedy on their own podcasts, YouTube shows and such. People can begin at level one at Second City and then a year and a half later, they’ve got two comedy troupes and are producing 6 shows. It’s an amazing experience to witness people's growth.

Julie: The other thing we hear a lot over the summer, when we're doing comedy camps and parents are enrolling their kids, is that the parent maybe took a Second City class like 15 years ago and just had a great time, had no interest in pursuing comedy, but was so excited that their kid could now have that same experience, because they made friends then that they are still friends with now. This is such a great social connection. There's a lot of people that have a great relationship with Second City and no desire to be comedians. But it is a formative experience and something that they're excited to watch their kids get the chance to do too and become part of the community.

BWW: And because you're 50 years old now, you're able to see this sort of generational passing down of the torch, so to speak.

PHATT al: Yeah, it's always awesome when parents come in and say they've taken classes, but the students are not coming in and learning exactly what their parents were, because that's the zeitgeist because of being in the moment. We are learning from the students as well, right? So it's great to have younger students come in, so when you’re doing shows and there are kids yelling out suggestions, you even know what they're talking about. They will roast you if you're not in the zeitgeist. It keeps you fresh.

BWW: Speaking of keeping it fresh, you told me a little bit about the new branch of Second City that's showing up in New York, but what else is next for Second City?

Julie: We've talked a lot about Toronto on this call and that's appropriate. Our touring company is about to open a brand new show, I LOVE TORONTO. It is all Toronto-focused scenes from our archives, and that's a dynamite cast. So we'll be turning over to that new show.

PHATT al: We're also going into the process on the main stage. This cast is incredible. I love them all. They're my family and after SKYLINE’S THE LIMIT closes, we go into the next phase of writing. That’s what we call “process,” which is a 10 week writing process where we start to turn over a new show as we start to write new material and incorporate it. It's a pretty cool experience, watching the shows turn over. The way in which we write at Second City is through improvising, and the feedback from the audience and our thoughts and melding it all. It's our 88th revue. We know that it takes a lot of pressure and time and love. And then we open a new show. It’s going to be a very, very fun time.

Julie: And while it may seem far away, we will be rolling into some holiday programming. We've got a show called Holidazed and Confused coming.

BWW: Good to talk about when it's 30 degrees and humid.

Julie: It’s a beacon of hope.

BWW: It sounds like there’s a lot to be hopeful about, and a lot to be proud of as well. Congratulations on fifty years of funny in Toronto!

Catch the latest Second City revue, I LOVE TORONTO, on stage now.

Photos of Julie Dumais Osborne and PHATT al provided by the company

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