TOBIAS RAGG -- Help!

[LimelightMike]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 5:39pm

Hey All -

So, I'm in the middle of casting, and I've run into a bit of a problem with TOBIAS RAGG. My initial idea was to cast 'an older, 20-something' in the role, to give-off that 'certain something' in reagard to his relationship with NELLIE LOVETT. Now, there's the question of: "What of using youth to the advantage?" and in-turn, cast a 13, 14, 15 yr. old (who is also talented and giving a performer). What I'm really looking for is advice as to which approach would 'work' more - in accordance with the BWW conensus. How old is Toby? What approach would 'sell' better? I've always beleive 'audience interpretation' is a key component to Sondheim - Especially SWEENEY TODD. Any and all insight appreiated.

Many thanks!

Best,
- Mike

[PiraguaGuy2]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 5:51pm

I would go with a 15-year-old. Don't play up any romanticness between him and Lovett, though. What I like best is the simple, slightly off teenager, rather than a grown man or the adorable lil' Cock'ney lad consi'er yehself well in from the movie.

[scaryclowns223]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 6:00pm

I've always found that Toby is much more effective when played by an adult pretending to be a child. Adults have the faculties to truly sketch Toby's character that teenagers simply do not have. One need not look farther than comparisons between the recent revival (with Manoel Felciano's masterful performance) and the recent movie (where the young boy playing Toby was ineffective and not particularly deep.)

Trust me on this, cast an older actor- you won't regret it. That is assuming, of course, that you find an actor who is capable.

[MisterRussell]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 6:08pm

What kind of director solicits directorial advice from the internet? Whatever happened to creativity? Or do you just crap out shows and cash you paychecks?

[Weez]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 6:15pm

Personally, I reckon you should go with what the book implies unless you have an amazing concept and/or other brilliant reason to deviate. The lib isn't very specific age-wise, but it does at least give out that Toby is a simple-minded adolescent. So even if you don't actually *cast* young, it should be someone who *looks* young.

But it's your show. Have you cast a Lovett yet? Call all your potential Tobys in, have them deliver portions of 'Pirelli's Miracle Elixir' and 'Not While I'm Around' (complete with acting to Lovett), and see who gives you the best vibe.

[binau]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 6:19pm

"? Whatever happened to creativity? Or do you just crap out shows and cash you paychecks?"

Wtf. His intention is to perform the best show possible.

[PiraguaGuy2]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 6:21pm

You guys are more negative than the Baker's Wife's pregnancy test.

BAM! BAM! BAM!

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 6:23pm

Whatever you do, skip this:

to give-off that 'certain something' in reagard to his relationship with NELLIE LOVETT.

That is so, so unnecessary.

[TonyVincent]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 6:30pm

I think the mother/son relationship is much stronger (the child, although in most circumstances incapable, wants to protect his mother). This can be accomplished by someone in any age range.

But, as said, it's likely you'll find a more capable actor who is an adult.

Although not a particularly deep performance, I must admit I'm a sucker for an "adorable lil' Cock'ney lad consi'er yehself well in" type, though. Now starring in Sweeney Todd--Billy Elliot!

(Yes, I know he's not Cockney. Just a joke.)

[Elphie3]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 6:42pm

I'd go with the stronger performer, personally.

I prefer the mother/son relationship too - but keep in mind, a 14/15 year old is right on the brink of "first love" time- he could totally have a schoolboy crush

[Weez]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 6:59pm

This could turn into a great big character breakdown thread if we're not careful. XD

While it's possible that Toby could be getting his first crush, I really prefer the Lovett/Toby relationship as a substitute mother/son. I think I've already stated I'm a big believer in following the lib unless you have damn good reason to vary; that puts Toby as a simple-minded soul. I think a grown woman paying him kindness for the first time in his life really would have a much more maternal effect on him than possible romantic. He might adore her, he might even say "I want to marry her!" if queried, but I still see it as mostly being a maternalistic bond. Lots of small boys, when queried, will say they want to marry their mums when they grow up, but it's not Oedipal, it's just how children are.

Mrs Lovett is probably the most effed-up character in the play. Everyone else has their moments, but she's consistently terrible from start to finish. You can see her trying to pull a bizarre surrogate family around herself, with Sweeney as dad and Toby as son. It obviously doesn't work out, but you can see her doing it, and that's another argument for mother/son.

Please don't think me arguing; I totally class this as a discussion, which is a bit like arguing, but in an extremely civilised manner. :3

Keep it mother/son - the show's messed up as it is, and Lovett's already involved in one A loves B loves C triangle. I think the whole point of 'Not While I'm Around' is to add a little sweetness as the show gets darker and darker, and it wouldn't be right, in my view, to taint that in any way. It's tainted enough by being a part of Sweeney Todd. XD

Updated On: 1/30/09 at 06:59 PM

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 7:02pm

How about a midget?

[dg22894]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 9:27pm

I would go with a 13-15 year old.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 10:48pm

And that will get ya 10 to 12.

Seriously, the voice is the first thing, some of Sondie's finest work must be interpreted with finese.
If the best guy is older, you go the mentally-challenged way, if not you play up the innocence.
The work is making the actor you choose find the character.
And IMO Feliciano did not give a masterful performance,
I loved Doyle's production, but they were giving mannered, true to the concept performances, but setting the show in an asylum put a whole different spin on things.

[LansburyLuPone]

Posted: 1/30/09 at 11:59pm

I remember when I first saw the original "Sweeney Todd" with Len Cariou and Angela Lansbury back in the 1970's, I thought it was very, very odd that Tobias Ragg was supposedly a teenager but was being played by a grown man. I found it distracting. So I'd go with a 15-year-old in the role. Part of the horror of what Nellie Lovett is willing to do to Tobias - after he sings "Not While I'm Around," which includes the line, "Not to worry, Mum" - is that she KNOWS he loves her like a son would a mother, and yet treats him as an expendable commodity anyway. This would be even more horrific with a real kid in the role.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 1/31/09 at 6:33am

I agree with the above post.

But as a matter of interest, the actor playing Tobias in the original London production (the late Michael Staniforth) was 34 years old when he took the part.
Updated On: 1/31/09 at 06:33 AM

[LimelightMike]

Posted: 2/2/09 at 2:32am

Bump.