Audra McDonald as Sally or Phyllis in FOLLIES?

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 2:35pm

I had an Audra album on this morning, and then Apple shuffle decided to play FOLLIES immediately after.

Which got me thinking...

Is Audra a Sally? Is she more of a Phyllis? I think she could pull off both, though Sally suits her better vocally, and the anxious vulnerability might be a more interesting portrayal for her.

(all this is hypothetical; I know nothing about any revivals in the works)

[JasonC3]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 2:50pm

I don't think her vocals would fit as well with Phyllis, and she has done well singing some of Sally's songs in Sondheim tributes.

[Penna2]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 3:54pm

JasonC3 said: "I don't think her vocals would fit as well with Phyllis, and she has done well singing some of Sally's songs in Sondheim tributes."

I think this is the correct story: Alexis Smith actually told Sondheim to give Losing My Mind to Dorothy Collins because she wouldn't sing it well. I suspect she knew the song wasn't right for her character. He then wrote the Story of Lucy and Jessie for her, and she wound up with the Tony.

My take is that Audra has the voice for Sally but has more the persona of Phyllis. 

[JoeW4]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 4:23pm

To me, there's no question that Audra is a Sally, not a Phyllis - both in terms of the vocals, and her acting style / persona. No doubt she could deliver a great Phyllis too, because she's Audra McDonald - but Sally is precisely in her wheelhouse.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 4:34pm

JoeW4 said: "To me, there's no question that Audra is a Sally, not a Phyllis - both in terms of the vocals, and her acting style / persona. No doubt she could deliver a great Phyllis too, because she's Audra McDonald - but Sally is precisely in her wheelhouse."

Fair enough!

I guess the other question would be...if given the option of O'Hara, Chenoweth, or McDonald, Audra probably doesn't get the role.

[JoeW4]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 4:43pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "I guess the other question would be...if given the option of O'Hara, Chenoweth, or McDonald, Audra probably doesn't get the role."

 

You're asking which of those 3 for Sally? Or which of those 3 for Phyllis? I think they'd all be great Sallys, and none of them are quite right for Phyllis. And I think Audra would give the best performance in both roles out of those 3.

Although, come to think of it, a Chenoweth Phyllis could actually be pretty interesting - a different energy for the role, but I could see it...

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 4:45pm

whooops –– SALLY for those 3, not Phyl.

[JasonC3]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 5:27pm

Hmm. I don't want to see Cheno in Follies at all.  I just don't see her subsumed in and by the character.  It will read as Cheno doing Sally.

[Valentina3]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 6:20pm

Cheno would make for a great Hattie one day.

Out of main 4 characters, the one I'd love to see Audra's take on the most is actually Ben.

Having said that, Audra McDonald/Vanessa Williams as Sally/Phyllis pairing is the most obvious casting I can think of.

[Brave Sir Robin2]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 6:37pm

Valentina3 said: "Cheno would make for a great Hattie one day.

Out of main 4 characters, the one I'd love to see Audra's take on the most is actually Ben.

Having said that, Audra McDonald/Vanessa Williams as Sally/Phyllis pairing is the most obvious casting I can think of."

With Norm Lewis as Ben and David Alan Grier as Buddy? It doesn't need to be an all-black cast, but these four would be an exceptional quartet.

 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 7:13pm

Valentina3 said: "Cheno would make for a great Hattie one day.

Out of main 4 characters, the one I'd love to see Audra's take on the most is actually Ben.

Having said that, Audra McDonald/Vanessa Williams as Sally/Phyllis pairing is the most obvious casting I can think of."

I think that's a brilliant pairing.  That b said, I have no doubt that Audra would do a great job in either role.  I may be imagining it, but I seem to remember her doing some really good dancing in Shuffle Along, so Lucy and Jessie would absolutely work with her.  Big issue if she played Phyllis: I would definitely want to hear her sing Losing My Mind.  

I am one of the folks who thought that both Follies revivals sucked...maybe it's time for another try.  (I did think the Papermill production was very strong and the City Center production spectacularly good, because of the casting in both cases.  

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 8:35pm

Renee Elise Goldsberry would be fab as Phyllis.

Christopher Fitzgerald or Christian Borle for Buddy? or Norbert?

Would Raul Esparza be right for Ben?

Updated On: 1/29/23 at 08:35 PM

[Theatrefanboy1]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 8:55pm

Meh, She could be the usher handing out the programmes for Follies

[Ke3]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 9:20pm

Audra is like Bernadette for me. There is a dual energy to them as performers that straddles the line between Sally and Phyllis. The problem is that leaves us with a dozen actresses who better align with the individual characteristics we associate with each role. It's very clear what part you'd cast Kelli O'Hara or Vanessa Williams in when doing Follies. Less so for Audra.

(Yes, I'm aware that Bernadette took Sally when she did Follies. I think I'm still right when you consider the reaction)

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 9:48pm

Ke3 said: "Audra is like Bernadette for me. There is a dual energy to them as performers that straddles the line between Sally and Phyllis. The problem is that leaves us with a dozen actresses who better align with the individual characteristics we associate with each role. It's very clear what part you'd cast Kelli O'Hara or Vanessa Williams in when doing Follies. Less so for Audra. (Yes, I'm aware that Bernadette took Sally when she did Follies. I think I'm still right when you consider the reaction)"

To play devil's advocate, the great thing is that SOMETIMES that leads to revelatory performances from someone who surprises you. The joy of somoene who shows you new colors that isn't immediately evident, and can be less stale than people giving "expected" performances. (For me, Sutton Foster in MUSIC MAN, but I'm in the minority. Or Krumholtz in LEOPOLDSTADT or Radcliffe in HOW TO SUCCEED.) I don't ever need to see Vanessa Williams as Phyllis because I can picture her performance exactly in my head (and she disappointed me so much in ANYONE CAN WHISTLE and POTUS)

[Musicaldudepeter]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 11:12pm

It's interesting that indeed some actresses fit one character perfectly, while many straddle the line of both - Sondheim famously offered Julia McKenzie either role for the first British production, and she chose Sally because by her own admission, she couldn't stand the thought of watching someone else sing In Buddy's Eyes eight times a week. Donna McKechnie, on the other hand, has played both Sally (at Papermill) and Phyllis (in the 1996 BBC concert)--and Carlotta for that matter in the LA Reprise production. Are there any others who can boast playing 3 roles in Follies?

[Ke3]

Posted: 1/28/23 at 11:58pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Ke3 said: "Audra is like Bernadette for me. There is a dual energy to them as performers that straddles the line between Sally and Phyllis. The problem is that leaves us with a dozen actresses who better align with the individual characteristics we associate with each role. It's very clear what part you'd cast Kelli O'Hara or Vanessa Williams in when doing Follies. Less so for Audra.(Yes, I'm aware that Bernadette took Sally when she did Follies. I think I'm still right when you consider the reaction)"

To play devil's advocate, the great thing is that SOMETIMES that leads to revelatory performances from someone who surprises you. The joy of somoene who shows you new colors that isn't immediately evident, and can be less stale than people giving "expected" performances."

I agree with all of this! That's why I'd probably lean towards Audra as Phyllis instead of Sally. It's just a more exciting prospect to me to see what she can mine from that. Still, I can see why some people either don't see her as either or would lean towards Sally.

For me Bernadette in Gypsy is one of those performances. Didn't actually see it but just based on the cast recording + clips I'm always thinking, "wow, didn't know that was there. in her or in the role"

Updated On: 1/29/23 at 11:58 PM

[Jeff Tupolski]

Posted: 1/29/23 at 12:01am

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Renee Elise Goldsberry would be fab as Phyllis.

Christopher Fitzgerald or Christian Borle for Ben? or Norbert?

Would Raul Esparza be right for Ben?"

I think Norbert’s more of a Buddy. Christopher’s definitely a Buddy. Christian and Raul could go either way. Agree on Renee for Phyliss.

[binau]

Posted: 1/29/23 at 5:48am

For me I’d really want Audra to do Sally because of the voice - In Buddy’s Eyes, Too Many Mornings and Losing My Mind to me is much more exciting a prospect than her doing Could I Leave you etc. I think I’d also love to see Kelli in the role but right now i think Audra is the more exciting choice and age appropriate.  

I think I’d love a Follies revival right now at Lincoln Center with Audra and maybe bring back Donna Murphy to play Phyllis finally on Broadway (she might be slightly too old but I think it could still work). Both would be giving Tony-worthy performances!
 

Would be really amazing if they could get Patti and Bernadette to play a supporting role this time too. 
 

Raul Esparza needs to be either Ben or Buddy (I think he’d probably be more a Ben maybe? And his road you didn’t take would be chilling). I actually think Danny Burstein could reprise Buddy. 
 
Or maybe Norm Lewis could be Ben and Raul Esparza Buddy. 

That would be kind of a dream revival for me. 

Updated On: 1/29/23 at 05:48 AM

[Jarethan]

Posted: 1/29/23 at 11:17am

binau said: "For me I’d really want Audra to do Sally because of the voice - In Buddy’s Eyes, Too Many Mornings and Losing My Mind to me is much more exciting a prospect than her doing Could I Leave you etc. I think I’d also love to see Kelli in the role but right now i think Audra is the more exciting choice and age appropriate.

I think I’d love a Follies revival right now at Lincoln Center with Audra and maybe bring back Donna Murphy to play Phyllis finally on Broadway (she might be slightly too old but I think it could still work). Both would be giving Tony-worthy performances!


Would be really amazing if they could get Patti and Bernadette to play a supporting role this time too.


Raul Esparza needs to be either Ben or Buddy (I think he’d probably be more a Ben maybe? And his road you didn’t take would be chilling). I actually think Danny Burstein could reprise Buddy.

Or maybe Norm Lewis could be Ben and Raul Esparza Buddy.

That would be kind of a dream revival for me."

I think your Audra / Donna Murphy suggestion is brilliant. Phyllis is the best Phyllis I have ever seen; the scaled down Encores production put that more emphasis on the performances, and she was spectacular.  IF Bart Sher directed it as well as most of his revival musicals, this could be the Follies revival that works

While BP and PL may be ready to take on smaller roles, I wonder whether the supporting Follies roles would be too small for them, but I love the idea.  I was always hoping they would co-star in a revival of Over Here (both would have good sized role, but not have to carry the show), and it would be so much fun seeing them both on stage singing together.

[binau]

Posted: 1/29/23 at 1:40pm

If they could ever get Patti and Bernadette of course the question would also be - for which roles? Perhaps the 'obvious' choice is Patti for Carlotta and Bernadette as Hattie given they both have sung those songs.

However, I actually think it might be better if it was the reverse - Bernadette is more glamorous looking and faded film-star vibe (somewhat in real life, too if you think of her film career), which would probably suit the character better and all associated lines RE: people loving since a little boy, dating younger men etc. And Patti could probably belt "Broadway Baby" to the rafters plus her sardonic line readings would be so hilarious on lines like having 5 husbands etc.

Could either of them be a Stella? 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/29/23 at 2:12pm

Either of them "could" play any supporting role except Heidi. Both could be interesting Stellas if they could dance it. I've always wanted to see Patti do "I'm Still Here" in full (not what she did for Ryan Murphy); I'm fine with never hearing Bernadette sing that song. Bernadette, in reality, most aligns with Emily (which would be a total waste). And I'm sure we'd never see them onstage together.

Can Debbie Allen still sing & dance well enough to play Stella??

[Jarethan]

Posted: 1/29/23 at 2:22pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Either of them "could" play any supporting role except Heidi. Both could be interesting Stellas if they could dance it.I've always wanted to see Patti do "I'm Still Here" in full (not what she did for Ryan Murphy); I'm fine with never hearing Bernadette sing that song.Bernadette, in reality, most aligns with Emily (which would be a total waste). And I'm sure we'd never see them onstage together.

Can Debbie Allen still sing & dance well enough to play Stella??"

How could she not.  Mary McCarty was spectacular in the role and was way overweight.  Despite dancing being so important, it was McCarty's belting of the song, combined with Bennett's brilliant choreography that did not put too much stress on the older ladies that made that an all-time great show-stopper.  To me, the question is more 'can Debbie Allen sing the role the brassy way it was written to be sung'.