Paul Ford’s book (Working with Sondheim)- Page 2

[JSquared2]

Posted: 6/23/22 at 3:59pm

BJR said: "I wish it was better written.

I don't mind the strong opinions, and love gossip, but I mind the constant repetition of opinions across multiple chapters and zipping through key life moments with barely a detail. Just poorly written and edited.

What a contrast to Harvey Fierstein's exceptionally written, heartfelt and hilarious book. That's how you weave a tale, frame a life, and humor the reader along the way.

I'm having trouble getting through this one."

 

Exactly.  Ford's book comes across as such a bitter, vengeful tirade and as an F.U. to the industry and people he's worked with -- most of whom he clearly views as his "inferiors" -- whereas Fierstein's beautifully written memoir is his love letter to an industry that he adores (mostly) and has devoted his lifetime to.  Ford is the lonely, angry man left sitting alone at the bar at last call.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/22/22 at 1:26pm

I’m almost finished listening to this. While I agree that some of these stories are fascinating and good old fashion bitchy fun, the majority of it comes across as very bitter and sad. 

 

I know a few people who are like this - nothing on Broadway has been good since 1971 and they can find something negative to say about anything and will only focus on that. A lot of times it’s like “OK, Nana. Time for your nap” and you just have to tune them out half the time. 
 

There’s nothing earth shattering in the book and when it sticks to just behind the scenes stories, I am enjoying it but there’s just so much unneeded negativity that it should have been read by Rachel Dratch as Debbie Downer. 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/23/22 at 8:03am

JFC, I just listened to the chapter on the Porgy and Bess revival where Ford refers to the creative team as “its” and “things” and “dreadlocked things”.

[ljay889]

Posted: 7/23/22 at 9:19am

Jordan Catalano said: "JFC, I just listened to the chapter on the Porgy and Bess revival where Ford refers to the creative team as “its” and “things” and “dreadlocked things”."

Wow. I’m glad I didn’t purchase this book.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/23/22 at 9:38am

Was there no editor to say “Actually, y’know what…”

He spends a lot of time complaining about changes to shows due to “political correctness” and I do tend to agree with him to a point. I think art should be looked at in the context of the time it was created. I’m not one for rewriting shows to fit what’s “acceptable” (not the word I’m searching for but the only one I can think of) at any given time. It’s like when HBO now puts warnings before old films that says it was made in a different time and things were different then. DUH. 

The idea of editing and cutting from books would be cause for outrage and demonstrations so it does confuse me why it’s so acceptable for theater. People aren’t given enough credit for understanding context. But I’ll stop now before I start start sounding like Ford lol

[Owen22]

Posted: 7/23/22 at 11:15am

Jordan Catalano said: "JFC, I just listened to the chapter on the Porgy and Bess revival where Ford refers to the creative team as “its” and “things” and “dreadlocked things”."

Oh, good.  Thank you. Now I have a reason not to read it.

[Owen22]

Posted: 7/23/22 at 11:41am

Jordan Catalano said: "The idea of editing and cutting from books would be cause for outrage and demonstrations so it does confuse me why it’s so acceptable for theater. People aren’t given enough credit for understanding context. But I’ll stop now before I start start sounding like Ford lol"

I am of two, conflicting minds about this.  On one hand I get really upset about (and for) the original book writer's words being dismissed.  The show is a show you would want to revive partially BECAUSE of the book writer.  It doesn't help that the new books to "Flower Drum Song", "Damn Yankees" and "Annie Get Your Gun" (among others) are neither as efficient or funny (or good) as the original.

However, I also realize that "context" and " intent" mean little to people when words or phrases or characters or incidents in shows trigger a hurtful response due to years, decades, millennia of oppressive real world situations. Situations we mostly white privileged theatre goers know little about about first hand.  They would not hit us emotionally in the same way. People who shell out the money, who just want to see the next big revival deserve not to be triggered during said revival.

But as an example we can all agree on, the original lyrics for the opening of "Show Boat" contained "N-words all work on the Mississippi..."  This was historically correct as African Americans DID refer to themselves in that way.  But in today's (or even not that recent yesterday's) societies, no one wants to hear that word, no matter if it IS authentic and was the original author's lyric, rewritten by someone else (I actually have no idea of the etymology of the lyric change, if Hammerstein was alive still and approved when it was changed for public performance, again I'm just using this as an extreme example).

Updated On: 7/25/22 at 11:41 AM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/23/22 at 2:21pm

Yeah, I agree with you about all of that. I guess I’m just against changing any little thing that might make people feel even the slightest bit uncomfortable. Some things were written that way for a reason. But like you said, others, like Amanda no longer using the N-word in “Glass Menagerie” are the right things to do. However what I don’t agree with would be censoring that in the written text. It’s how it was written and for better or worse should be kept for historical context in published scripts. Just my opinion. 

[Fan123]

Posted: 7/23/22 at 6:02pm

Owen22 said: "But as an example we can all agree on, the original lyrics for the opening of "Show Boat" contained "N-words all work on the Mississippi..." This was historically correct as African Americans DID refer to themselves in that way. But in today's (or even not that recent yesterday's) societies, no one wants to hear that word, no matter if it IS authentic and was the original author's lyric, rewritten by someone else (I actually have no idea of the entomology of the lyric change, if Hammerstein was alive still and approved when it was changed for public performance, again I'm just using this as an extreme example)."

This is a digression, but just in case it's of interest, Miles Kreuger comments briefly on this in his essay in the liner notes for the 1988 McGlinn recording of 'Show Boat'

(I've put this quote under a spoiler tag; while I've censored the n-word, there are several other not-great terms mentioned, so.)

 

Click Here To Toggle Spoiler Content

"In the case of Show Boat, the word 'n------s' as the very opening word serves stunningly to shock an audience from its complacency, to consider (at least subconsciously) the servile conditions to which southern Negroes were subjected a century ago. The word is therefore an indictment against those times and conditions, not against the Negro race.

Thus, the progression of euphemistic alterations to which this opening line has been subjected is almost ludicrous. First it was "N------s all work on de Mississippi"; in the 1936 film it was "Darkies all work on de Mississippi"; in the 1946 revival it was "Colored folks work on de Mississippi"; in Till the Clouds Roll By it was "Here we all work on de Mississippi"; and by the 1966 revival nobody worked on the Mississippi, because the opening Negro chorus was omitted altogether."

(There was, of course, controversy around the use of the n-word lyric option for that 1988 recording, as covered briefly on the Wikipedia page for Bruce Hubbard, who played Joe. Meanwhile, the 1993 Toronto revival used "Colored folks".)

 

 

[benhow2]

Posted: 11/25/22 at 11:05am

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Updated On: 11/27/22 at 11:05 AM